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November 13[edit]

Hearts game[edit]

I am looking for the strongest (smartest AI) hearts game available for Windows 10 or online in a browser.

Free is good of course but I will pay for the game if that's the way to get the strongest computer opponent.

I don't want to play other humans - I usually play while on hold and it isn't fair to the other humans to suddenly stop playing for 20 minutes.

I want something with really tough opponents. I win 80% of the time on the few versions I have tried.

Are there computer hearts championships like they have with chess?

22:13, 13 November 2021 (UTC)2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:983F:3FAA:1D4A:9B03 (talk)

I imagine that whoever has attempted to code a version of this fiendish and almost rule-free pastime has read Berns on Hearts ©2002 Gerald M. Berns, or has otherwise assimilated its contents. Is there anything which the author doesn't cover? How can the premises he sets forth be distilled into a brutal winning machine? There are enough random factors (like the fourth hand where you cannot pass) to make it unlikely that such a machine can ever win 100% of the time.

On occasions I have been dealt such a stunning hand and been passed even more winning cards, that stunning victory with a moon is a dead cert. At certain times you swiftly realise that it is almost impossible not to pick up zero points. At others you know full well that you are going to get landed with 24 points and that if you had only played the high club it would have gone better for you. There are so many conflicting and ever-changing strategies that I frequently despair, asking "Why on earth did I ever get into this game?"

The trouble with many computer opponents is that they seem to be programmed to win so hard that their 'strategy' is wildly apparent, and if they could be coded to play less aggressively it might be to their long-term benefit.

From time to time you find yourself playing with three other people of equal ability who obviously enjoy just playing the game just for the random joy of it, everyone trying not to win, but to keep the game going as long as possible, evenly distributing points so that it's a real shame when someone actually reaches 100. That's the best for me. Sorry, I can't offer any advice on your original questions. Perhaps email the guy at hearts.vex.net. ♥ MinorProphet (talk) 04:16, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Berns says: "The way I (and, therefore, Killer Hearts) view the game..." and "Early versions of this paper, which I wrote many years before developing Killer Hearts, helped greatly in designing Killer Hearts."

So all I have to do is find Berns' Killer hearts program. If it's a DOS program I can emulate DOS, but by 2002 he was probably writing for Windows XP or macOS.

The bad news is that there is a punk band called Killer Hearts, and that's all you find when you google the phrase. Are there any Search Engine Ninjas reading this that can find the computer card game by Berns? 15:22, 14 November 2021 (UTC)2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:4188:2D9B:B299:A266 (talk)

This page from the same site has more tips. Searching with "killer hearts" -band download game, I found a .jar file here. This is not my thing, although I wrote a few DOS TSRs in X86 Assembler many moons ago. Should open with Oracle JRE included with the SDK, available here. You may be familiar with it already. Couldn't get any further as it's 64-bit and I'm still on XP. PS Other similar searches threw up the strangest set of results I've seen for a long time... Q♠ MinorProphet (talk) 13:21, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

~~Berns seems to have passed away in 1994.[1][2]~~ Have you tried 24/7 Hearts? Play against the computer only, there's an expert level, but I got thrashed on easy... MinorProphet (talk) 14:16, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, can't even count numbers let alone cards: 2002 > 1994 MinorProphet (talk) 15:03, 15 November 2021 (UTC) [reply]

"...many moons ago." Lunar cycles, obvs... MinorProphet (talk)

I'm pretty sure that the JAR file is not what you're looking for. The hint is that it's being hosted on fileserver for Minecraft mods. ApLundell (talk) 18:39, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How weird is that, considering the previous and initially utterly unrelated post re graphics drivers turned out to be about Minecraft? Synchronicity, eat your heart out. Unless the Ref Desk is merely an alchemical allegory or perhaps the athanor, or even the stone itself. Mind you, I foolishly attempted to watch Ex Machina last night, which may have left me permenantly brain-damaged. MinorProphet (talk) 20:14, 15 November 2021 (UTC) [reply]

I tried a bunch of games. 24/7 Hearts in expert mode plays like a beginner. The robot players are OK at getting rid of the black queen and hearts, but don't seem to care who gets them. A good player tries to pass to the highest scorer if she has the low score, tries to avoid passing to the highest scorer and to pass to the lowest scorer if she is in second or third place. Also a good player who is hopelessly behind tries to shoot the moon even with an unsuitable deal, because that is literally the only chance of winning. I don't see the 24/7 Hearts doing any of that or in any way paying any attention to how many points each player has so far.

Still zero luck finding Killer Hearts. How can something like that completely vanish from the Internet? 07:05, 16 November 2021 (UTC)2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:B421:6401:34D3:C339 (talk)

How would that work, playing against it by yourself? It's a 4 player game, right? ISTR you can sort of play it with 3, but 2 seems difficult. Maybe try chess puzzles? https://lichess.org/training is a good way for intermediate players to pass time. 2602:24A:DE47:B8E0:1B43:29FD:A863:33CA (talk) 11:08, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Telling someone who is looking for a strong computer hearts game to play chess instead is not helpful. Next time, try suggesting calvinball. :)

To answer your question, computer hearts has three computer players and one human player. And the computer players are always bad. 14:22, 16 November 2021 (UTC)2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:A00E:F5AA:E4E8:9861 (talk)

Ha! In the above I had to change the last few words because Wikipedia said a filter found my post to be harmful. I feel safer already. I tried to say that the computer players s.u.c.k. Seriously? That's what Wikipedia thinks is harmful? How are we supposed to describe the way Microsoft keeps popping up messages saying how much better off we would be if we used the edge browser? 14:31, 16 November 2021 (UTC)2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:A00E:F5AA:E4E8:9861 (talk)

That's actually rather strange. My guess is that's a blacklisted word for IPs due to the potential abuse by IPs. Also I agree that the Edge browser isn't all that great, I only use it because it's a browser that's capable of running Google Stadia games that isn't glacially slow. ― Blaze The Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 14:46, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I can't comment on WP's policy, try asking on the wp:Help desk without sounding annoyed. Like you, I have also hunted for any current mention of Killer Hearts with a total lack of success. It does seem a bit strange that there are essentially zero mentions of it. It seems to have been disapparated. Maybe it's been transmigrated onto the Dark Web and you have to play for Dogecoins only. You could try emailing the guy who hosts the 'Berns on Hearts' document. Your description of 24/7 Hearts makes it seem that it was coded without the benefit of Berns' paper. Like I said, when playing against three bots they somehow need to to be coded to play co-operatively rather follow their own 'must win at all costs' imperatives. Mind you, there are so many possibilities and strategies which change with every hand that even the pseudocode must be daunting. One thing I find relatively difficult is hanging on to that Queen for long enough to give it to eg the player on your left. Counting cards, of course, is what bots excel at (or should do). MinorProphet (talk) 12:18, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So I asked at the clever people at the Help Desk about your warning message (later edit naming no names, of course) and they said that it was a false positive, probably part of a complex search to find longer words. It's been flagged, and shouldn't happen again. Sorry for your discomfort. I boldly emailed the two people I suggested earlier, but haven't heard back from them yet. I was playing on hearts.vex.net last night, and one player managed to get the Queen thrown at them towards the end of an early hand by a bot, (no fault of mine) and they chucked me straight out. Losers, eh? MinorProphet (talk) 11:03, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I had an enjoyable email exchange with one of the people I mentioned. He actually had a copy of Killer Hearts a long time ago (now sadly gone) and even corresponded with Berns about bugs etc. It probably ran on Win 98. The AI was apparently pretty good, reflecting the heuristics in Berns' paper. It doesn't seem to have been widely distributed, and the likelihood of finding a copy, or the code, is now probably close to nil. Ah well. MinorProphet (talk) 18:23, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]