Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2009 July 8

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July 8

Troubleshooting Mac OS networking

I'm having an intermittent problem with Mac Mini communicating with the rest of the network computers. From what I can tell, there should be a logging option that I can enable in order to at least get an idea on where to look, but even when it's enabled, it doesn't seem to produce anything. The one I found was for firewalls, located in System Preferences and Sharing. Even though Firewall Logging is enabled, the log file next to it is blank when the problem occurs.

I know the following:

• The Mac's internet access continues without problem.
• DNS lookups for all computers work as expected.
• It generally returns to normal within a minute of poking around the network settings. As such, I can't tell which procedure is actually fixing the problem (whether it's opening an external website, or trying to renew the DHCP lease.)
• The DNS setting is also wierd, as it only worked in DHCP mode.

It's a rather obscure problem, and multiple attempts to search for the problem don't give anything. The connection loss is simply no packet flow between the mac and other computers on the network; Internet access is not affected. It would be much easier if there was a log around. --Sigma 7 (talk) 01:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Two computers behind NAT talking to same sever

Lets say there are two computers on a network, both running firefox and both connect to the same website on the same port. How does the NAT router know which incoming packet to translate to which computer? There does not seem to be any way it can do it at the internet layer nor at the transport layer.--155.144.40.31 (talk) 01:17, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Check out the Network Address Translation and Stateful firewall articles. Basically, the NAT router keeps track of the connections so it knows what internal system to route traffic to. Also, while both systems are connecting to the same endpoint port, their source port most likely differs. This is why two applications on the same machine can establish connections to the same remote port without being confused. -- JSBillings 01:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I have read both of those articles already. They only mentions states defined by IP and Port. I am aware that IP and Port can be used, but I know in reality that NAT devices somehow differentiate even when the server IP and the ports of both PC's behind the NAT (and at the server) are the same. Even now a router is listing two sessions to different devices behind the NAT to the same server on the same port (both server and client ports identical for these sessions). How exactally can it differentiate and at what layer? --155.144.40.31 (talk) 02:31, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The NAT server actually remaps the original source ports of the LAN clients to random ports in its available range. What you're looking at is probably the destination port (let's say 80, for http). That doesn't change. But the client computers pick a source/outgoing port to use, usually in the dynamic port range. If you want to see the ones you're currently using, on windows open a command prompt and type netstat -nap tcp. Anyway, let's say your client's outgoing port is 55526. The NAT server will change that to a unique source port on itself, one that doesn't map to any other ip+port client connection.

Example: the client, IP 10.0.0.5, wants to connect to port 80 on 208.80.152.2. It opens up port 55574, and sends a packet with source 10.0.0.5:55574 and destination 208.80.152.2:80. That packet gets intercepted by the NAT server (external IP 74.125.67.100). It sends out its own packet, with source 74.125.67.100:54885 and destination 208.80.152.2:80. When the web server gets the packet, its reply packet will have source 208.80.152.2:80 and destination 74.125.67.100:54885. When the NAT receives this, it remembers the IP/Port combination for port 54885, modifies the packet destination to be 10.0.0.5:55574, which sends it to the original client.

In order to see the external ports the router (ie, NAT server) is using, you'd have to run netstat (or something similar) on the router, or connect to an external computer whose logs you have access to, using two different NATed computers. But from the web server's perspective, the connections come from two different source ports on the same IP address. Does that make sense? Indeterminate (talk) 03:48, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Here's the same answer as Indeterminate's that I wrote up:

On your local network, the outgoing messages from the two different computers have different source IP addresses (for example, something like 192.168.1.x, with different numbers for x), even if the source port, destination IP address, and destination port are the same.

When your router does its network address translation on the outgoing messages, it changes the source IP addresses so they're the same (the WAN IP address the router is getting from your ISP), but changes the source ports so they're unique.

For example, the outgoing messages on your local network

From: 192.168.1.10:2696, To: en.wikipedia.org:80
From: 192.168.1.11:2696, To: en.wikipedia.org:80

Might get translated to something like this on the internet

From: 155.144.40.31:2696, To: en.wikipedia.org:80
From: 155.144.40.31:2697, To: en.wikipedia.org:80

The responses from the internet

From: en.wikipedia.org:80, To: 155.144.40.31:2696
From: en.wikipedia.org:80, To: 155.144.40.31:2697

Get translated back to your local network

From: en.wikipedia.org:80, To: 192.168.1.10:2696 
From: en.wikipedia.org:80, To: 192.168.1.11:2696

--Bavi H (talk) 04:03, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Windows Vista question

How do I delete old search results from address bar? Is there any way for me to be sure that people using computer after me cant see which sites I visited (and no,its not for porn believe me). Cause no matter how many times I delete it from history,it still remains in address bar. How can I remove it?

Thanks a lot and please answer as soon as possible.

87.116.161.170 (talk) 03:18, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

What browser are you using? Algebraist 03:29, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Internet Explorer 7 87.116.161.170 (talk) 03:33, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Tools/Delete browsing history should do it. Algebraist 03:40, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

• Tools/Internet Options/Delete History

if that does not work

Tools/Internet Options/Advanced tab/RESET (button on the lower right) poof* Issue resolved. Ps stay off the porn :) haha j/k Ivtv (talk) 03:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot,it worked. And hahaha its really not porn,I wouldnt care if anyone sees porn links,but its just that I visited quite a lot of Nazi sites today,but not cause Im Nazi,just cause its interesting. But I wouldnt like my non-white mates to see it or anyone else who might use my computer,they might get the wrong impression.

Thanks once again!

87.116.161.170 (talk) 03:49, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh,I suppose it cleans your google-search right up as well? 87.116.161.170 (talk) 03:52, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

resetting your browser will reset everything except your favorites. Even your home page. Hey, at least it is not Nazi Porn. But now that you know how to delete history.....ENJOY Ivtv (talk) 03:54, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

external hard drive stopped spinning.

How can I bring my external hard drive back to life and rescue all the info? It simply stopped working with no previous notice or funny sound, it just stopped. Looks like an electrical problem. How can I solve this? Manologarriga (talk) 04:07, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

sadly, if the head or the actual electical motor that drives the head failed the only way to get the documentation off is to send the harddrive to a data recovery team so they can take the platters out in a clean room and put it into a temp drive, copy your data and mail it back. Average cost of that is 100$. Try to use a different USB cord if applicable. If not the above is your only option. Do not try to take the drive apart yourself. Any dust that gets on the discs will make it unreadable. I had this happen myself with an external drive and I was super pissed. But I got the data off 170$ CAD later. Ivtv (talk) 04:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, if it's an entirely self-contained external hard drive, it might be possible for you to take it apart and try hooking it up to a different external hard drive adapter. You can get external adapters pretty cheap (~$15) online. Try searching online for your hard drive's model name + "disassembly" or "take apart" or something. There might be some guides out there. Indeterminate (talk) 05:20, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the power cable came loose? Astronaut (talk) 01:07, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Using Psiphon to access Facebook

So I'm vacationing in China right now and Facebook is blocked. So are many of the online proxies that I find on Google. Would Psiphon allow me access to Facebook? If not, what other ways can I access it? Acceptable (talk) 04:29, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

You can use proxies to get around this issue. However, you better look into local laws about using internet. Stuff like this is logged and you do not want to have the government at your doorstep. But google JAP. Ivtv (talk) 04:48, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if it'll work, but you can try Tor (anonymity network) - [1]. It's a bit slow, because it routes all your traffic through other peers, but for some people it works well. They have a portable version that's easy to try out. Indeterminate (talk) 05:23, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Windows 7 and applications dependent on browser control

Microsoft has recently announced that European versions of Windows 7 will not ship with Internet Explorer. I hope it only means that the OS will not ship with IE "application", but WebBrowser Control will be still there, so that applications that use browser control will still continue to work on Windows 7 without IE. Is this correct? manya (talk) 06:33, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

We don't know for sure, but surely you're correct; there are too many things that depend on Trident (see Trident (layout engine)#Trident-based applications). I suppose they could ship a stub for it instead, and when you installed something like Steam that needs it, the stub could download Trident for you (but, I assume, not the IE8 app). 87.113.26.43 (talk) 09:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

But what about .chm help files? In Windows, and Windows applications, the browser control is used almost everywhere, so I really hope that it is included in Windows... --Andreas Rejbrand (talk) 11:11, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm fairly sure .chm is heavily deprecated. Microsoft really doesn't want you using them anymore, last I heard. Washii (talk) 18:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but I have to disagree there. It's the .hlp files that now depreciated and by default Windows Vista won't even open those files. The chm files are still very much in use. ZX81 ^talk 20:14, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

They're talking about no web browser - not a GUI less version of windows - so yes don't panic.!83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:20, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

site

are there ANY other sites like totse i remember one that started with rotten i cant find it thou it started with roten i think but was NOT rotten com helppp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.3.30 (talk) 07:07, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Presumably not but, www.rottentomatoes.com ? ny156uk (talk) 07:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

encyclopedia dramatica suggested rotteneggs.com. Indeterminate (talk) 09:50, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

mySQL flat files

So I have this php script that needs to work with a mySQL database. Is there any way, short of re writing the script, to make it use flat files to store it's database? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.90.6 (talk) 12:27, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

It is not trivial, but you can change the mysql_query and mysql_fetch_object commands to something like flat_file_query and flat_file_fetch_object. Then, write those functions to access whatever kind of flat file you are going to use. -- kainaw™ 13:44, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

But it'll take a lot of work, right? I'm a complete noob with scripting stuff, so I guess it's not going to be easy. Thanks though, it's good to know it can be done in theory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.90.6 (talk) 14:04, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

if you use a program like Jedit, you can edit anything and replace it with something else with one click. So say you have a var called $var1 and you needed it changed globally to $var2. Just CTRL F in the program, click query directory and put in what you want to search for in box 1 and what you want to replace it with in box 2. then click 'find and replace all'. close the app to save changes and POOF you are done. Ivtv (talk) 21:15, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

yeah you could do that in notepad too, but that just changes words it doesn't re write the script to use flat files. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.91.128 (talk) 08:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

^^ Naw. Notepad is different unless you are using notepad++. Jedit and other programming software tools can change and edit numerous strings and data on the fly where notepad you can only do it one at a time by manually searching for each string and manually changing them. Jedit will allow you to find 100 instances of $var1 across 300 pages and instantly change it to $var2 in one click. thats 100 changes, in 300 pages done in 3 seconds. so for the OP, he/she can change Every instance of mysql_query (wether there was 5 or 5000) to flat_file_query in 1 click. where using notepad you would need to change each one manually. hope that helps you. Ivtv (talk) 02:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

That misses the point. Changing the function names is not a problem. Writing new functions is the problem. No editor is going to instamagically write an SQL parser and file processor function for you with a few button clicks. Even vi and emacs cannot do that. -- kainaw™ 03:26, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

How much work it would really take really depends on how the script was written. If it was written with the idea that you might switch the database in mind, it could be quite trivial (e.g. if the data is just passed to a function that handles all the MySQL specifics, that means just rewriting one function). If not, it could be a huge pain in the neck -- going through a lot of code and rewriting it from the top down. PHP has pretty good CSV functions which make using a flat file not too hard but it's a different data paradigm than MySQL to be sure, and depending on the script in question could mean a lot of careful rewriting. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 21:32, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Stolen laptop

My laptop, containing many confidential files that I would not wish to become public, has been stolen. It is password protected, but I have heard that it is easy for knowledgeable folk to get into the computer despite this. If they do, will they have access to the confidential files, or have they in effect logged on as a different user, without access to my files? In other words, will they gain access only to the laptop's computing power, or will they also gain access to my files? And what is the position with certain particularly sensitive files that I deleted just a few days ago? Can they somehow restore those as well? Thanks in advance for any help you can give. Maid Marion (talk) 12:34, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately yes, unless you have taken special measures, all your files are easily accessible. There's a high probability that the recently deleted ones may be recovered as well. Regards, decltype (talk) 12:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

It is trivial to access files on a computer. It is very rare that someone encrypts the actual drive. I am certain that you never went through the process of encrypting your drive (if you don't know what that means, you didn't do it). So, all that is required is to pop in a Linux CD, mount the hard drive, and easily view all the files. Then, it is trivial to change the passwords on the drive to make it even easier to login and view the files. It doesn't require "knowledge" of computer systems. It only requires the ability to use Google to find a website that explains what to do. -- kainaw™ 12:44, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh well, that will teach me to be more careful! Thank you for your prompt and helpful responses. One further question Kainaw, if you don't mind: when you say it is trivial to access files, does that include the deleted files as well, or just the current ones? Maid Marion (talk) 13:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Anything that's still in the computers's recycle-bin/wastebasket has really just been moved to a special place, so that's totally visible. For stuff that's been deleted there are many undelete programs which can retrieve stuff; which stuff is recoverable depends on a multitude of technical circumstances, and for your purpose we can just call it "unpredictable". Probably your one saving grace is that the immediate laptop thief will resell it quickly to a fence, who will in turn sell it to a dodgy computer bloke. Bar poking around for porn, it's mostly in his interest to get the machine cleaned as quickly as possible, removing identifying stuff and returning the machine to a neutral, untraceable state; only then can he sell it on to someone and say it's just a regular used machine. 87.113.26.43 (talk) 13:28, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again, that's slightly reassuring. Maid Marion (talk) 13:32, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I personally would cancel any credit cards used to make purchases via that machine, and generally be on the lookout for identity theft. --Sean 16:07, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

For future laptops/computers/USB sticks you get, I recommend encrypting the data. Truecrypt is an excellent, easy to use piece of software. This way, even if you were to lose the computer, anyone who gets their hands on it cannot read the data. - Akamad (talk) 22:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

If it is at all reassuring, most stolen laptops do not serve for identity theft; they are more often quickly sold for cash (e.g. at a second-hand shop), where they are typically reinstalled (for example, see this FBI news release). This reinstallation process "permanently destroys" the personal data, with some technical caveats that might allow a very motivated expert data snooper to still recover some information. Most identity-theft does not occur via information from stolen computers. However, there is no way to know what this particular thief intends to scan your stolen computer for identity-theft-style crime; as mentioned by earlier editors, it is possible, and much data is trivially recovered if the thief is motivated to look for it. Nimur (talk) 06:38, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh no, this all sounds terrible. But thank you all anyway. Wikipedia is just incredible! Maid Marion (talk) 07:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

gnuplot 2-d

Hello,i'm having some problems in plotting with gnuplot and i was hoping that someone could help me. I want to plot 10 dat files with two coloumns in every file all together in one 2-d plot(x,y)with only one y number to correspond in every x number.One of these files would be for example like this:

0 , 2
0 , 2.5
1 , 3.5
2 , 5
2 , 5.5
3 , 7
4 , 7.5
4 , 8
5 , 8.5
6 , 9
6 , 9.5
7 , 10

etc. So by plotting all the 10 files i want to have 10 different lines in one plot. THAKS FOR YOUR EFFORT —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zzzmith (talk • contribs) 13:05, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I answered your question above. --Sean 16:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for tiring you but i;ve already done that and my dat files also don't have commasbut the problem is that for x=0 there are to y points (2 and 2.5).The problem is that the line(or better curve) must have only one y number for every x.And my teacher asked me not to erase the other points but to findfrom where the line must pass in order to take into account every point —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zzzmith (talk • contribs) 16:32, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

You have stated that:

1. y=2 where x=0
2. y=2.5 where x=0
3. there must be a single y value for each x

There is no gnuplot command that can help you with this contradiction. You must understand what your data means before you can plot it. --Sean 18:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

internet issues

My computer has a problem where the internet quits every few minutes for 1-2 minutes and then comes back without any action from me except refreshing the page. This is not an ISP problem since the other computer on the network maintains regular connectivity during these events. Any ideas what the problem might be and more importantly, how to remedy the problem? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 13:49, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Is the problem computer a wired or wireless connection to the network? Poor network-signal or a busy channel could be a potential cause. Also have you checked the PC for any spyware/viruses. It's not beyond possibility that they could do this (viruses often do things that are more annoying than anything). Are there any programs/tasks that are running on 1 PC but not the other? I would try to identify all the varient differences between what is occuring on the working PC and that which is on the failing-one, then try test each of them until you find the culprit. I'd start with network-connections - a faulty cable (if wired), a poor or interfered signal (wireless) could all cause something like this. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 15:54, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

probably a browser issue. try other browsers to pinpoint the issue. Ivtv (talk) 21:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

MySQL: sproc each row of a select

In MySQL, how do I run a stored procedure on each row output by a SELECT, separately? NeonMerlin 16:31, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

You can write another procedure to take the query and perform a special function on each row of the result. -- kainaw™ 17:49, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

This can be done with a cursor. I don't use MySQL, but apparently it does support cursors. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 11:35, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Compatability between WYSIWIG HTML editors

If a website is created in a WYSIWYG editor such as Dreamweaver, can it be easily opened and edited later in a different WYSIWYG editor? ----Seans Potato Business 19:30, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

It can be edited with any WYSIWYG editor, but you should expect a hell of a lot of junk to be produced. For example, if one editor uses <b> for bold and another uses <strong> for bold, you will see <b><strong> produced. Then, both editors may very well get confused (as well as humans trying to read the code) and be unable to turn off the bold. So, you have to delete the bold text and retype it. Then, buried in your code is an absolutely useless <b><strong></strong></b>. Before long, your page that should only be a dozen or so lines of text becomes thousands of lines of garbage. -- kainaw™ 21:04, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Any point in updating chipset drivers before converting from Win2K to Linux Ubuntu?

Someone gave me an old computer which is about eight years old. I do not think the chipset drivers have been updated at all. I am going to install Ubuntu in place of its Win2K. Is there any point in updating the drivers beforehand? Or will they be overwritten (and everything else on the disk) when the Ubuntu is installed? It would be easier for me to update the drivers in Windows than in Linux, since I am more familiar with Windows. The old computer has no internet access, only my Windows computer has internet access. Thanks 89.240.106.124 (talk) 20:34, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

No. Linux uses its own drivers, not windows' ones. 87.113.26.43 (talk) 20:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Drivers are software. when you format you lose software. no point Ivtv (talk) 21:22, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Generally, Linux will install all of the drivers you need - it's only fairly obscure things or very new things that it doesn't get right 'out of the box'...and Windows drivers simply don't work with Linux anyway. When you install Ubuntu, you'll probably want to do a complete 'brain wipe' and just erase everything that was there before - drivers, the works. On a machine with a reasonably large hard drive, you could set up to dual-boot both Windows and Linux - but I'm betting you'll be tight on disk space with just Ubuntu installed so that's probably not viable advice. You can probably get the beast onto the Internet fairly easily - and you probably should because it's a LOT easier to get updates and stuff if you do. You can pick up old ethernet cards for $10 or less at swapmeets and places like Craigslist and eBay. With an internet connection, OpenOffice, FireFox and Thunderbird, you should be able to surf the web, do email and write using the machine with little problem. Doing all of your web surfing and email on your little Ubuntu box will do wonders for keeping malware off of your Windows machine! There are even a good number of old-school games that ought to run on it pretty well. If you have some kind of 3D graphics card in there - it might even run my old TuxKart game! SteveBaker (talk) 21:38, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I have been wondering about internet access. I have an old ethernet card I can install in the old computer, removing its dial-up modem card. Currently my Windows computer is connected to internet broadband by an ethernet socket, a short ethernet cable, and an external modem. I've been wondering if I should try temporarily unplugging the Windows computer, and then plugging in the now-Ubuntu computer. Will it mangle the modem settings so that it won't work when I plug the Windows computer back in again? 78.147.135.194 (talk) 23:22, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

And another point concerns an old nVidia graphics card I have that comes with a windows (I think) instalation CD. After I have installed Ubuntu, will it be enough to simply slot in the nVidia card, start the computer, and let Ubuntu do the rest? Thanks again. 78.147.135.194 (talk) 23:27, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Plugging in your older computer into the ethernet socket instead of the new one won't mess up any settings. You can even pick up a fairly cheap ethernet hub (I've seen them new here for $16 - you can probably find a used one for half that) - plug that into your ethernet socket - then connect both computers to the hub. This provides a means for both computers to use the Internet at the same time - and also for the two computers to do stuff like sharing files (which you'll soon find to be indispensible).

If you get THAT working - then you can install this on both computers and share a single keyboard and mouse (a tremendous desktop space saver!) and do things like cut-and-paste between the two machines! Put the two monitors side-by-side and you'll be able to slide the mouse off one side of the Windows machines' screen and onto the Linux machines' display! It's super-cool.

An old nVidia card should work just fine with Ubuntu. It'll be easier to install if you plug it and hook the monitor up to it before you install the operating system so it gets auto-detected and set up along with everything else. You can do it later - but it's much more of a pain. Get both the ethernet card and the graphics card plugged in (the ethernet hub can wait) - THEN install Ubuntu.

SteveBaker (talk) 01:30, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Purchasing a hub is inadvisable. Your broadband provider most likely only supplies service to a single computer/MAC address, so connecting multiple computers through a hub/switch will not allow all of them to access the internet (unless your "modem" already handles routing, in which case it probably has ports for multiple network cables so no hub is required). If your modem does not handle routing, you need a router (apparently known here as a residential gateway) to allow multiple computers to access the broadband internet connection. The good news is that many (all?) home routers include a switch allowing you to connect multiple computers (and they're generally inexpensive as well). (You can set it up so that computer B accesses the internet through computer A, but that is less convenient, more complex, and generally inferior to a proper router configuration.) 76.11.230.33 (talk) 06:21, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

MySQL Custom LDML Collations

I've come across a number of people with this same problem, but haven't managed to find a solution.

I've created a custom collation for MySQL 5.1 using LDML based off of utf8. When I run a "show collations" query, I can clearly see that MySQL is aware of the new collation. However, if I actually try to apply it to anything, I get an "Unknown Collation" error. What's going on? Macnas (talk) 20:46, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Wolfram 1D CA

I'm researching Wolfram 1D CA, rule 106. Does anybody know any good, freely-available web resources I can use? --128.12.77.73 (talk) 21:28, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

How deep does the MyIsam Database hole go?

Alice in wonderland reference is win. Curious on the amount of rows per table you are allowed for MyIsam? also does InnoDB offer more? Which one would you consider better? as an opinion? I have also read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InnoDB. Thanks Ivtv (talk) 21:37, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

SATA Adapters

I own a Dell Dimension 4100 Desktop that I got in January 2001. I recently purchased an HP 1170i DVD writer. (My old Sony CD burner broke. Ugh.) When I went to install the new burner, I found that my data cable and power cable did not fit the new drive. The new drive has SATA connections. I ordered a power adapter, but, unfortunately, the adapter still has an SATA data interface. Is there any adapter that I can purchase to adapt my old data cable leading to the motherboard to the new SATA data port on my DVD burner? --Think Fast (talk) 22:33, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I believe you can get an IDE to SATA. But the speed will run IDE. that would be like getting a PS2 adapter to USB. Ivtv (talk) 22:46, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

You need a SATA controller card, probably PCI. A web search for "PCI SATA" generates a number of products. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 22:47, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually there are many options. You can get a USB to SATA converter, a PATA ('IDE') to SATA converter, a Firewire to SATA converter or whatever works for you. The PATA to SATA converter will probably be the cheapest, you can get such things for under $15 including shipping from eBay IIRC, although the PCI card likely won't cost that much either. The PATA to SATA converter should plug in to your motherboards IDE port. Note that you probably won't be able to share the channel anymore. I've never tried this before (only the reverse, connecting a PATA drive to a SATA port). The speed issue is irrelevant. The DVD drive would very likely be SATA-150 in which case this is only about ~13% faster then UDMA-133 the maximum for PATA. More significantly, the DVD will almost definitely not need that speed. Even UDMA-66 is fast enough (many older PATA drives were this), heck even 33 should be fine. Of course since the computer is rather old it may not have UDMA-133 anyway. As an aside, even for magnetic HDDs a single drive is unlikely to really be limited by UDMA-133. PS2 to USB is not comparable since PS2 is a completely different standard from USB (whereas SATA is quite similar to PATA, the primary difference is it's designed as a serial interface rather then a parallel one) Nil Einne (talk) 16:58, 10 July 2009 (UTC)