Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2009 January 2

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January 2

Oh how I miss my Unix shell

I've definitely decided now that I just can't live without my awk, grep and sed. Can anyone recommend a free set of unix-like utilities for Windows XP? I like csh, but I can live with bash and ksh - I just really need the good stuff - diff, sort, cut - all that magic. Pointers to good (free) software packages are appreciated! Franamax (talk) 01:00, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Cygwin may be a good solution. I haven't used it myself so I can't comment on it. - Akamad (talk) 01:13, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I use Cygwin all the time (well, on those -- thankfully rare -- occasions when I'm forced to use Windoze), and I can definitely recommend it. Easy install, and it gives you bash plus all your favorite indispensible Unix utilities.—Steve Summit (talk) 02:18, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes - using Windows without Cygwin is like...um...it's like...um...driving an Acura instead of a MINI Cooper'S. With Cygwin installed, you'll be right at home. All of the standard 'GNU' tools you have under Linux/Unix are right there - the slashes in the filenames point in the right direction and you have /usr, /bin, /etc and /home just like you like it. You can use tcsh (as well as bash...dunno about ksh). awk,grep,sed,diff,cut,sort - and all of the pipes and redirects and back-quotes, the GNU C/C++ compiler/make suite...everything. If you squint just right so you can't see the flappy-flag logo at the bottom-left of the screen...then you're right at home (er...except for having to unnecessarily double-click to launch programs...<grrrr>). SteveBaker (talk) 15:19, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I've installed it and I have a very large smile on my face. Finally, I'm home again. :) Took a while to figure out the packages, but the whole command line is there and it's got X app's. Now if I could only get the Solaris cmdtool with the proper window controls - can't have everything I guess. Thanks for the tip, now I'm going back to playing with my new toy! :) Franamax (talk) 01:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

After you've been using it a while - you will start to notice some slight windows-isms creeping in to your otherwise comfortable new world. One weirdness is to do with case-sensitivity in filenames - and how that affects filename completion on the commandline. Cutting and pasting is also a little strange sometimes - it's evidently trying to deal with the Windows clipboard in parallel with the normal Unix/Linux mechanism - and sometimes it can get confused. Also symlinks are a bit strange - they work OK in the Cygwin world but they don't seem to exist (or at least sometimes not) in the Windows world. I don't quite fully understand what's going on there. But these differences from Linux/Unix are pretty marginal - on the whole it "just works" - and it allows die-hard Linux nuts like me to at least tolerate being stuck in front of a god-awful Windows machine for 8 hours a day. Some things surprised me - one is that Windows batch files work perfectly - so long as you type in the filename extension 'myfile.bat' rather than just 'myfile' as you would in Windows. Ditto for native '.exe' files. Still - it's all so much better than before I had Cygwin that I'll put up with a lot! SteveBaker (talk) 04:21, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Symbolic links created from Cygwin works in Windows Explorer as shortcuts, although the same won't work in the Windows command shell. On the other hand, shortcuts created from Windows won't work inside Cygwin. --173.49.10.53 (talk) 04:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Setting up cygwin

Now that you're on about Cygwin ... I tried it a week or so ago, and I'm completely dumbfounded on how to use it. –  LATICS  talk  04:16, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean how to use it? What do you want to do? --76.167.241.238 (talk) 05:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I've installed it (the .exe) ... and since that point, I'm completely lost. I basically just wanna mod the GUI to look like Ubuntu. I really enjoy using Ubuntu, except for the lack of computability. –  LATICS  talk  05:35, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Cygwin is very useful but the installation process can be quite confusing. To install it, you first download the setup.exe installer from the Cygwin website. There are many optionally application/utility packages you can choose to install, and you probably won't need them all.

Before installing Cygwin, you may want to take some time to study the list of packages available and make an alphabetized list of the ones you want. It is often not obvious whether you may want a particular package, and some packages have dependencies on others. Fortunately, the Cygwin installer automatically takes care of the dependencies for you — if you select a package for installation, the installer will automatically select other needed packages as well. Sometimes a utility is part of a -utils package. It may take some digging to find out what package it is a part of, or if you have already selected it when you selected another package. If you are just using a software package, but are not developing (e.g. modifying and compiling) it, you probably won't need the corresponding -develop package.

When you run the setup.exe installer, you will be asked to select a mirror site to download software from and then to select the optional packages you want to install. At the "Select Packages" screen, you may want to click the "View" button (in the upper right part of the screen) to switch the view to "Full". With the help of the (alphabetized) list of packages you made earlier, select the ones you want on the big scrollable list. (To select a package for installation, click under the "New" column on the line for the package. It will change from "Skip" to the version # of the package.) The rest of the installation process is quite straightforward.

Two tips:

1. In Cygwin, the C: drive of Windows is mapped to /cygdrive/c/ in the file system. Other Windows drives are handled similarly.
2. By default, your home directory will be a directory under /home. You may want to make that a symbolic link to your Windows %USERPROFILE% or %USERPROFILE%\My Documents folder (so that you can work on the same set of files easily from both Windows and Cygwin.)

Good luck. --173.49.79.200 (talk) 06:31, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Most people use Cygwin to run useful Linux command-line utilities and stuff, and develop software that depend on Linux libraries. It sounds like you want to run a desktop environment or something; I'm not sure how to advise you on that. GNOME packages are part of Cygwin, so you might want to try installing GNOME and see what that does. But I'm not sure what kind of "compatibility" you would get out of it. I'm not sure that Cygwin is the right solution for what you want. --76.167.241.238 (talk) 06:54, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Wait, wait, wait...we're all answering the wrong question. You said you "wanna mod the GUI to look like Ubuntu" - that's not what Cygwin is about. It's mostly about being able to run a Unix-like command-line environment using the same GNU toolset as Linux, BSD, etc. The Windows GUI is something you're more or less stuck with. There is an X-windows environment for Windows - but it's not going to end up looking like you're running Ubuntu's desktop without an insane amount of messing around...and probably not even then.

a couple of responses: first, the commandline is the Unix GUI :-P. J/k. Second: KDE RUNS JUST FINE UNDER WINDOWS. I've done it myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.27.219.202 (talk) 20:46, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that's how little I know about operating systems outside of Windows. :P –  LATICS  talk  21:35, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Using programs in OS X to overlap two images transparently like MS Paint does.

Just so it is clear what I mean, in MS Paint, you can define a "background color" (i.e. whatever is in the color box underneath the other one in the bottom left corner ) and with the appropriate transparency setting selected, when you move one image overtop another, and the color of the bottom image will show through any pixel with that "background color" in the top image. This makes it easy to say, stack a dozen separate graph images atop one other for easy comparison fairly quickly. How do I do the equivalent thing in OS X (4) about as fast I could in MS paint using either the default programs or downloading something free which has the desired functionality? Thank you in advance, 152.16.15.23 (talk) 02:08, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

So far, I found a hideously complicated method in Appleworks involving creating a "Painting section" in a "Drawing" sheet, pasting the image into the painting area and manipulating some settings and doing other things that I have already forgotten, and then repeat the process for every image I want to stack. I then take a screen shot of the drawing sheet with the now stacked image, crop it, and save it as a normal jpg, png, or whatever. The above method I described takes far too long and is difficult to manipulate, especially when I have to stack lots of images. I saw some free "Paint clones for Macs" when I googled for a solution earlier, but I don't know if they have this functionality. I feel a little uneasy downloading them to try them out since the computer in question is a shared work computer. I'd be willing to get permission if someone confirms that one of programs can do what I want it to. 152.16.15.23 (talk) 02:42, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

GIMP + magic wand tool on the "transparent" color + delete + paste new layer onto another image? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 03:00, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

GIMP is certainly the tool of choice - it's a free program and it's every bit as good as high-end paint programs such as photoshop (and WAY better than MS Paint!). Start up GIMP, create a new image - then right-click somewhere in the image window to pop up the menu. Under 'File' you'll see 'Open as layers...'. Click that and you get a file load dialog box which lets you select multiple files to load...each will be loaded into its own layer. Then right-click to bring the menu up again, under 'Dialogs' you'll see 'Layers'. Click that to open the layers dialog. Click on any of the thumbnails then use the 'Opacity' slider at the top of the dialog to adjust the transparency of each layer - or click on the 'eye' icon to the left of the thumbnail to turn the layer completely off or on again. You can also do fancy tricks like setting the 'mode' of each layer to modify the layer beneath in some interesting way - but you'll probably have to experiment to find modes you like. If you want to remove the solid-colored background of a graph or something - then right-click to get the menu and under 'Select' you'll see 'Select by color...' - click that then click on someplace in the image to pick a color from whatever layer you have selected - then type Ctrl-X (or whatever 'Cut' is on the Mac) to cut out all of the pixels of that color. SteveBaker (talk) 15:09, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Paint in Windows

Some time ago my XP-based Daktech laptop was having these hardware problems that made it harder and harder for me to use it except as a really small desktop, so I bought a new Vista-based HP laptop and transferred my data to it. I virtually never use the Daktech now. It didn't take me long to get fed up with Vista (like how it doesn't even have Windows Pinball, not to mention the way that file folders work somewhat differently, and some programs are rather different, like Paint which doesn't have simple reds and yellows in the basic color palate. Because the Daktech still works, I got Pinball and other things I needed from it; while Pinball works fine (I've broken my old record score :-) other things don't always. When I loaded the older version of Paint onto the HP, it worked fine: it opens image files fine, modifies them fine, saves them fine, etc. I've made the XP Paint the default program for opening .jpgs, .pngs, etc., but for some reason they always keep opening in the annoying Vista Paint. I'm tempted just to delete Vista Paint to solve the problem, but I don't want to cause big problems — would this do something bad to my computer? Would this be a good way to solve the problem? Or should I do something else? Or should I simply give up because there's nothing I can do? 24.93.116.128 (talk) 04:06, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I suggest a test. Instead of deleting the Vista version of Paint, just rename it to something like "paint.exe.disabled". Then, if this causes any problems, you can rename it back. StuRat (talk) 07:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

SYN attack?

Does this mean that i am being attacked?

01/01/2009 21:30:11 **SYN Flood to Host** 192.168.2.103, 49530->> 74.125.19.104, 80 (from WAN Outbound)

01/01/2009 21:17:27 **SYN Flood to Host** 192.168.2.103, 53775->> 74.125.19.103, 80 (from WAN Outbound)

01/01/2009 21:16:15 **SYN Flood to Host** 192.168.2.103, 53501->> 66.135.200.11, 80 (from WAN Outbound)

01/01/2009 19:56:48 **SYN Flood to Host** 192.168.2.103, 51612->> 66.135.220.11, 80 (from WAN Outbound)

01/01/2009 19:51:40 **SYN Flood to Host** 192.168.2.103, 50726->> 66.135.220.11, 80 (from WAN Outbound)

12/28/2008 10:39:31 **SYN Flood to Host** 192.168.2.105, 2759->> 17.112.152.32, 80 (from WAN Outbound)

12/27/2008 23:45:36 **SYN Flood to Host** 192.168.2.100, 49291->> 213.199.149.11, 80 (from WAN Outbound)

12/27/2008 23:45:15 **SYN Flood to Host** 192.168.2.100, 49250->> 213.199.149.8, 80 (from WAN Outbound)

12/26/2008 19:45:48 **Smurf** 157.166.255.39, 80->> 192.168.2.103, 53895 (from WAN Inbound)

12/26/2008 19:45:36 **Smurf** 157.166.255.39, 80->> 192.168.2.103, 53892 (from WAN Inbound)

12/26/2008 19:45:35 **Smurf** 157.166.255.39, 80->> 192.168.2.103, 53892 (from WAN Inbound)

12/26/2008 19:45:30 **Smurf** 157.166.255.39, 80->> 192.168.2.103, 53892 (from WAN Inbound)

12/26/2008 19:45:29 **Smurf** 157.166.255.39, 80->> 192.168.2.103, 53892 (from WAN Inbound)

12/26/2008 19:45:26 **Smurf** 157.166.255.39, 80->> 192.168.2.103, 53892 (from WAN Inbound)

12/24/2008 17:22:01 **SYN Flood to Host** 192.168.2.103, 50272->> 66.135.200.13, 80 (from WAN Outbound)

12/24/2008 16:56:59 **SYN Flood to Host** 192.168.2.103, 65513->> 96.17.109.113, 80 (from WAN Outbound)

12/24/2008 16:47:48 **LAND** 10.202.46.2->> 10.202.46.2, Type:5, Code:1 (from WAN Outbound)

12/24/2008 15:31:21 **SYN Flood to Host** 192.168.2.100, 2216->> 65.254.35.18, 80 (from WAN

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.62.151.224 (talk) 05:48, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm a novice at this stuff, but I'd say it's looks very possible that you are. Just googled and found this, seems it may help. If it doesn't, just check google. (see SYN flood) –  LATICS  talk  06:13, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

After doing a whois search i found out that those ipaddresses belong to ebay, Microsoft, Apple, Google and 2 of the ip addresses were from 'Microsoft London Internet Data Center'

Was i jsut attacked by a zombie network?69.62.151.224 (talk) 06:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't look like you're being attacked by a zombie network. Rather, it seems that your machines were being exploited to attack other computers. (In other words, your concern should be whether your machines are already compromised and are now part of some zombie networks.) I'd suggest checking the documentation of the firewall or IDS that generated the log entries and see exactly what conditions would cause those events to be logged, as a first step to understanding what was going on. --173.49.79.200 (talk) 15:17, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Doing a google search for "**SYN Flood to Host** (from WAN Outbound)"

I found others asking the same questing on a couple of the popular DSL forums: here and here

From what I was able to gather, this is not an attack. -- Grumbly0x03 (talk) 01:45, 4 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grumbly0x03 (talk • contribs) 01:41, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

KDE: Force undo video mode change

In KDE, is there any way to undo a video mode change and bring up the desktop, which no application can override? Just now I started Neverwinter Nights and had "VIDEO MODE NOT SUPPORTED" come up on my monitor. Nothing else would display. I tried Alt-Tab, Ctrl-Alt-Esc followed by a click, and Ctrl-Alt-Del, to no avail, and was ultimately forced to hit the power switch. I need some way to deal with this if another game does it in the future. NeonMerlin 05:55, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Ctrl+Alt+Backspace will restart the X server. Plus, if the X server's frozen you can try the Magic SysRq keys. --wj32 ^t/c 07:27, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

(Note: The magic sysrq keys only work if the kernel is compiled with that option enabled...which it's typically not). SteveBaker (talk) 14:51, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

aha! Now we know why you're so powerful, SteveBaker, across all the reference desks!! You roll with Linux. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.27.219.202 (talk) 20:42, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

PCI express slot

Can I have a PCI express slot installed on my motherboard since it does not have one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.52.231 (talk) 10:47, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

No sorry, it is not possible to add that type of a slot. Your best bet is to get an AGP or PCI graphics card as they are still available. 62.25.96.244 (talk) 11:26, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

It's certainly not possible - but even if it were - it would be a waste of effort. If your motherboard still has AGP then it's doubtful it has enough CPU horsepower to keep a PCI express graphics card fully loaded (at least not with 'typical' applications like games) - so the upgrade wouldn't actually achieve very much (if any) practical benefits. SteveBaker (talk) 14:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah my motherboard only has an AGP slot but I bought a new 512 MB AGP card last year and it runs most games pretty fast so that's your best bet unless you want exceptionally high performance, in which case you'd probably want to upgrade your motherboard anyway so you could take advantage of the latest technology.62.25.96.244 (talk) 15:12, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that, supposing there were something like that, some kind of "adapter" that provides a PCI Express slot and connects to your motherboard somehow, through another slot or connector, then whatever connection it uses must be at least as fast as PCI Express, for the PCI Express slot to be used to full potential. But such a slot or connector probably doesn't exist on your motherboard, because the PCI Express is among the most high-bandwidth slots even on motherboard that have it. --128.97.245.52 (talk) 00:32, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

There was actually an adapter in reverse i.e. AGP to PCIe Bridge Card [1] [2] but compatibility was poor. I would probably have been possible to do the same thing in reverse after all most AGP cards nowadays are PCI-express native with a bridge chip but again compatibility is likely to be extremely poor plus there would probably be other issues (e.g. the device would need to be externally powered so it can supply the 75W guaranteed by PCI-e). Actually I seem to recall talk of one in the works a while back, I guess they realised it was a dumb idea and abandoned it. BTW, you don't need to be as fast, technically it's possible by design for most cards to work with only 1 lane. Performance will suffer although for a long time there was little difference between 8 lanes and 16 lanes and 8x AGP is roughly equivalent to 8 lanes. Of course a card running on an adapter is quite different from one properly designed to use a bridge chip, the later being much more desiriable Nil Einne (talk) 10:27, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

notebook with windows vista BSOD problem

My notebook, started to give a blue screen of death, when starting vista, (after the loading screen), this problem occur even in safemode. I put my notebook to make tests, something that he is able to do, and when starting to make HD test it said that was a problem and he was not able to make the HD test. I tried to run the chkdsk in the command prompt that i am able to select when windows vista shows it starting fixer (the place where i am able to test the memory, use the command prompt...), but is didnt fixed the problem. Also tried running the defrag but it didnt started (and said something about an dll). What can be the problem?? The last user that was using the notebook said she didint made somethig very different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.97.5.198 (talk) 15:39, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Put the original Vista install disk in the CD drive and boot your notebook from the CD (press F12 before the computer starts loading Vista from the hard disk, and choose boot from CD). When started from the CD, you should choose the option to repair your Vista installation. Then you should be able to start Vista from the hard disk into Safe Mode. Once in safe mode, look at the system recovery options in the control panel and try to roll back the computer to an earlier System Restore Point. These links might help: here and here (found with this Google search). Astronaut (talk) 16:40, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Tried to recover to a ealier point before but windows vista says that the system dont have a ealier backup. Another thing I dont have a windows vists cd here because I am not in my house, (well not in my official house, i am on my vacation house), so i left my cd in my house. I am talking and using wikipedia with an another notebook that I have. (before you ask with windows xp). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.97.5.198 (talk) 17:13, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I suggest you wait until you get home and try a proper repair like I described above.

If you really can't wait until then and you have a way to burn an ISO image onto CD (using your other notebook?), now might be the time to play with a Live CD (a linux you can run straight from the CD without installing anything). You should be able to use the internet, check your mail, access your documents by mounting the hard disk, and maybe learn a little about Linux. Astronaut (talk) 02:00, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

wiki tools problem

I wanted to check stats on my contribs yesterday, and got a timeout error message. I checked again today, and I get the same results. If I do a contributions summary I get a "Gateway Timeout error", if I do the Edit and Action count I get:

Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)ERROR: No result returned.

is there an upgrade or problem going on, or is it an issue with my computer or setting in my preferences that I'm missing. Thanks for any input. Ched (talk) 16:29, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

The toolserver's been having problems lately. That hasn't been working for me either. Dendodge Talk^Contribs 17:18, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, if it's not my computer or settings, guess I won't worry about it. ;) Ched (talk) 17:34, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Typically, if you have a problem with a certain part of a single website or service, but everything else on the internet works fine, it's not your problem. Or rather: it may be your problem, but it's not your fault. ;) -- Captain Disdain (talk) 19:27, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Compromised email?

Hello! Just recently (according to my spam folder Dec. 21 last year), I started receiving emails in my spam folder from "me." I checked the details of the sender, and it did indeed say "From:<myemail>@gmail.com To:<myemail>@gmail.com." I checked my "Sent Mail," but none of these messages where recorded. I also looked into Gmail's discussion board, but mostly everyone else who had the problem had noticed the messages in the "Sent Mail" folder, so I'm not sure how severe my situation is. Do I need to take action? Is my account compromised? I run good periodic virus checks, watch for phishing, and believe I maintain good computer hygiene. Any advice appreciated. Thank you very much!--el Aprel (^facta-_facienda) 20:59, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Much of the information in the header of an email can be spoofed; it is common for spammers to put in bogus "from" and "reply-to" data. Here is one (not very detailed) discussion of the topic. It sounds like you have nothing to worry about, just keep maintaining that good hygiene. --LarryMac | Talk 21:04, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Anyone can put anything in the From: field and it does not make any difference because that field is not used in mail transport. (Any email client should allow you to put anything you want in the From field.) People get spam mail "from" themselves all the time, and it doesn't mean anything. --71.106.183.17 (talk) 21:06, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much—and for the quick reply! That makes sense, and I'm glad it looks like I have nothing to worry about.--el Aprel (^facta-_facienda) 21:21, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Designating Commons for file uploads on my MediaWiki wiki.

Hi,

I run a website that uses MediaWiki. According to MediaWiki's help page, "A group of wikis may have designated one wiki that is preferred to upload files to, with sharing of those files enabled. Among Wikimedia wikis, Wikimedia Commons works for this." How do I designate Wikimedia Commons as the preferred wiki for my personal wiki?

Thanks, --VectorField (talk) 21:52, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

By using $wgForeignFileRepos. However, you should read Commons:Project scope and Commons:Licensing so that you understand what content is allowed on commons first. Nanonic (talk) 09:00, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! --VectorField (talk) 00:17, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

New Hard Drive

I bought a lenovo 3000 N200 laptop over a year ago (with a year's warranty, damn) and I had to buy a new hard drive. Problem is, Windows Vista was already installed before I bought it and I don't seem to have been given a recovery disc. Can I install it on my new hard drive without having to buy it again?

Thanks 90.221.241.230 (talk) 23:05, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Can you still access the old hard drive with vista on it? There should be an option in Vista to create a recovery disk if you've never done it, and as long as you're using the same laptop it should install fine on the new hard drive. If not you'll need to get hold of a new install disk, I recommend Mininova —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.87 (talk) 23:29, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response. The old drive was not recognised so I don't think it'll be an option. I'll try mininova. How do I transfer the Vista from one computer to the other. It is too big to fit on a CD/DVD, right?90.221.241.230 (talk) 23:30, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean? Download one of the torrent files from Mininova, the "Extreme Edition" has lots of seeds so it'll be fast, and open it in utorrent. Once the file is downloaded (this could take a long time depending on your connection as it's a 4GB file) burn it to a DVD. Make sure to burn the iso to the disk as an image and not as a file, otherwise it won't work. Then put the disk into the laptop, restart with the new hard drive in and it should install. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.87 (talk) 23:37, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I downloaded Windows Automated Installation Kit (900MB) eariler (will this do the trick) but it didn't fit on my 700MB CD/DVD. Can I get a bigger CD/DVD to burn this 4GB file that you are talking about? 90.221.241.230 (talk) 23:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know anything about Windows Automated Installation Kit, but it looks like it's a preinstallation environment for large scale deployment of vista and not what you're after. Either way, you'll need to burn the files bigger than 650mb to a DVD as they have 4.3GB capacity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.87 (talk) 23:52, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for all your help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.221.241.230 (talk) 23:53, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Technicolour spinning wheel of despair?

Yo computer wizards. I use an apple mac. Doh. Can one of you describe what is a actually happening when I ask my computer to do something, say I click on a link, and before it does what i have asked it to do, nothing happens for a long time, and the circular, rainbow-coloured, spinning thing takes the place of my cursor? I think the equivalent on windows is an egg-timer thingy? what exactly is happening at this moment? Why cant I be taken to the link or whatever I have asked for instantly? Is it 'loading', like a Commodore 64 had to? Are there popular names for the 'loading/waiting' icons on the mac or pc? Is there anything I can do to reduce the amount of time I must confront this technicolour wheel of frustration? If it isnt completley obvious, I am completley ignorant about computing, so I would greatly appreciate if you could explain in terms a retard could understand. Thanks. Willy turner (talk) 23:20, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

What you're seeing is the Spinning wait cursor or Spinning Beach Ball. You don't get taken to the link's destination immediately because your computer has to establish a network connection with the host the link's destination refers to, and then wait for the host to give you the web page you asked for. One way to speed up that conversation is to get faster internet service. -- JSBillings 23:32, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Uh, no. That's incorrect, it's got nothing to do with the speed of your internet connection. The beach ball is an indication that the computer is indeed busy with something else -- yes, just like the Commodore 64 back in the day -- and the software being used at the moment is too busy to respond. Adding more RAM to the computer in question will make the beach ball appear less frequently (and more briefly when it does). A cheaper way address the problem is running fewer applications at the same time.

By comparison, the whole thing with establishing the network connection and downloading the page's contents is represented by the browser software itself, which (in Mac OS X) displays an animated circle of sorts, composed of lines that seem to radiate from the center of the circle, in the tab in question. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 00:09, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

It's not just that it's busy, it's that it's sooo busy that the operating system has noticed that it's no longer responding correctly. It's not a good thing and is usually a sign of really process intensive stuff or something having gone wrong. (It is not quite the same thing as the hourglass on Windows—on the PC, the hourglass can be a signal from the programmer to you that they want you to wait a minute, white the beachball occurs at the system level and programmers are supposed to indicate things are loading with other means, like progress bars). As for reducing it, I would add more RAM. Depending on your machine it's usually not that expensive—a machine that is about a year old today could have its RAM maxed out for $60 or so if you shop around. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 02:12, 3 January 2009 (UTC)