Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Timeline of Briarcliff Manor/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by SchroCat 16:03, 22 October 2014 [1].

Timeline of Briarcliff Manor[edit]

Featured list candidates/Timeline of Briarcliff Manor/archive1

Nominator(s): ɱ (talk) 20:37, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Briarcliff Manor is a small village in the New York suburbs. It has plenty of interesting history and quite a few notable residents. The village also has a number of parks and historic buildings.

After working on the main municipality article, I decided to arrange village events into a clear timeline, which I just finished. I hope it meets all of your standards.ɱ (talk) 20:37, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment from Jimknut[edit]

Resolved comments from Jimknut (talk) 19:15, 3 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is a comment.

"The following is a timeline of the history of the village of Briarcliff Manor, New York, United States" — fix the redirect of Briarcliff Manor

done.--ɱ (talk) 16:56, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The year 1900 was the final year of the 19th Century, not the first year of the 20th, thus events that took place in 1900 are currently listed in the wrong century. Likewise, the year 2000 was the final year of the 20th Century and not the 21st. Hence the events of that year need to be placed in the current century. See WP:CENTURY.

done.--ɱ (talk) 16:56, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note here: "When using forms such as the 1700s ensure there is no ambiguity as to whether e.g. 1700–1709, or 1700–1799, is meant."

I'm not sure the best way to fix this. In all of the instances in the article, it refers to the decade, not the century. Should I have it as "1900s (decade)"?--ɱ (talk) 16:56, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My suggestion would be to use "ca. 1901-10" or whatever date range fits

OK, done.--ɱ (talk) 18:26, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The colored timeline bar on the right seems unnecessary as it covers the same events as depicted in the main list. Plus it seems very out of place since the events are placed newest to oldest while the main list goes from oldest to newest.

At least one other municipality timeline used it, and it's a good way of summarizing the most significant events in the history, better than listing them in prose in the lead. I can easily reverse the order of the timeline. I wonder if you can find a precedent: I tried looking for municipality timelines that are good or were reviewed for FL or even GA/FA and didn't find any.--ɱ (talk) 16:56, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A suggestion: Place it and the "Historical population" side-by-side up top on the right were an infobox would normally go. Jimknut (talk) 18:18, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try it.--ɱ (talk) 18:26, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think it looks messier there. Perhaps it wouldn't as much if I found out how to make a box around the timeline, but I don't know how and haven't found anything useful so far. The previous placement of the timeline looked better, IMO.--ɱ (talk) 18:37, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The illustration "Illustration of James Stillman's farm ca. 1886" should be placed in the section of the 19th Century.

done.--ɱ (talk) 16:56, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The illustrations "The First American International Road Race" and "Village Municipal Building decorated for the village semicentennial" should be dated. Jimknut (talk) 16:37, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

done.--ɱ (talk) 16:56, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments, they look good so far. I'll start implementing.--ɱ (talk) 16:47, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments

Archaic period: Around this time, the area of Scarborough-on-Hudson is first inhabited. — Fix the redirect of S-on-H
1880 – The Whitson's Corners station is added to the New York City & Northern Railroad train schedule,[12] and the first train arrives on December 13. — Fix the redirect of New York City & Northern Railroad
October 13, 1893 – The Scarborough Presbyterian Church is founded — Fix the redirect of Scarborough Presbyterian Church.
1907 – Law's Briarcliff Farms move to Pine Plains, New York, and Law begins developing Briarcliff Manor more as a municipal corporation. — Fix the redirect of Pine Plains, New York
1959 – Faith Lutheran Brethren Church is founded in Scarsdale — Fix the redirect to Scarsdale
1978 – The Scarborough School closes; it reopens in 1981 as The Clear View School. — Fix the redirect to Scarborough School Jimknut (talk) 18:18, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:NOTBROKEN, the redirect usually is preferred, especially in these cases.--ɱ (talk) 18:26, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Jimknut: Per that above guideline, it is best to have the redirects. It also makes sense to have them: it means that if the pages ever change, there won't be unnecessary piped links to fix later on. Please revert your edit.--ɱ (talk) 22:17, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If you want a box around the timeline then go to the top and add "class="wikitable"" in front of "align="right"". Jimknut (talk) 19:15, 3 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – One thing that jumped out at me was the size of the lead, which is rather small for an FL these days. I'd expect to see a lead twice this size for a list of this length, and there are certainly enough interesting facts presented to be able to add to what's there now. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Many leads serve a purpose of general information about the topic, although that's already heavily covered in Briarcliff Manor and History of Briarcliff Manor, so much that I thought writing any more in this lead would seem redundant, and just another re-hash of the same information. The lead size issue is just a guideline, and if there's not enough fresh information to fill it out, we shouldn't just throw in whatever to fill that gap.--ɱ (talk) 00:21, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by URDNEXT[edit]

Support as per comments below. I also provided feedback for the main article's FAC, if any administrators are wondering.

Congregation Sons of Israel is formed by eleven men in Ossining - I think you should change men to people.

I normally agree, although the source said "men" specifically. It was a congregation of and for men, formed by men. Putting 'people' just makes it less specific and removes detail, and why?--ɱ (talk) 23:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Elliott Fitch Shepard's masnion Woodlea is completed. - Big typo here.

That's really not so big. Fixed.--ɱ (talk) 23:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The first twenty-nine street lights, all electric, are installed - Something off with this line. I'm not sure what.

You've got to be more specific on how you think it should be changed. I can't read your mind; the line seems perfectly fine to me...--ɱ (talk) 23:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

After Hurricane Irene, a sinkhole about 20 feet in diameter forma on North State Road in front of a gas station and repair shop, and New York's department of transportation spends about $900,000 repairing the damage. - Needs copy editing.

How, where, and why? This seems fine to me too, what's off with this?--ɱ (talk) 23:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Too big. URDNEXT (talk) 23:20, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As in 'too much information', or 'not worded concisely enough'?--ɱ (talk) 23:50, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Ɱ Not worded concisely enough. URDNEXT (talk) 23:52, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

done, I don't know how much shorter it can be now.--ɱ (talk) 00:09, 19 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I'm talking about, ɱ. I personally think the article is good enough to pass. URDNEXT (talk) 00:14, 19 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

During the week of October 14, the petition is filed with the town of Ossining and the village of Briarcliff Manor. - You should make it clear what the petition is for.

I talk about the petition in the sentence above. Not every bullet has to be independently understandable. With that logic, I would be linking every instance of Briarcliff Manor and Briarcliff Manor Fire Department throughout the whole article.--ɱ (talk) 23:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For some reason, peobaly the huge images on the side, makes the lead look to tiny and confined. I think you should put that big one somewhere else in the article.

I had it that way before; the above reviewer wanted it at the top. I can't please both of you...--ɱ (talk) 23:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Ɱ Hope this passes. URDNEXT (talk) 20:20, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks!--ɱ (talk) 23:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Ɱ I'm trying my best, but there aren't a lot of things wrong with the article. URDNEXT (talk) 23:16, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well that's good, thank you.--ɱ (talk) 00:09, 19 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment from Epicgenius[edit]

Support – this seems like a pretty qualified list, though I will add more comments in the next 2 days. For now, it seems pretty well laid out.

One question, though; wouldn't the timeline in the lede look better if it were to the right of the census data? It may be a stylistic preference, however. – Epicgenius (talk) 00:53, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, although I'm not sure if it's technically possible. And the other two reviewers also had other ideas about its placement; I'm not sure what would be best, but it's such a minor issue that I think any or all of the options presented are fine. Thanks for the general compliments.--ɱ (talk) 01:18, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. Only one other issue — the statement "Rosemont, a Scarborough Historic District property, is demolished" is unsourced and there's no exact year. Otherwise, perfect. Looks like I don't have to wait until tomorrow to do the review at all. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:44, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reminding me. I knew it had been demolished based on what the historical society had said, and since it's one of seven properties in the district, that it was important to note. I later asked one of the society members, who directed me to a more concrete answer and source. I'll fix that momentarily.--ɱ (talk) 01:51, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

All good to go. – Epicgenius (talk) 02:05, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support

"The following is a timeline" is the cousin of "This is a list", and shouldn't be used. The reader knows it's a timeline- it's the first word in the title. I'd start the list off the same way the history of article starts- "The history of Briarcliff Manor, a village in the county of Westchester, New York, can be traced back to the founding of a settlement between the Hudson and Pocantico Rivers in the 19th century."

In its defense, that wording was taken from a very detailed and well-made municipality timeline. Regardless, I agree with you, I've changed it.--ɱ (talk) 17:39, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'd prefer if the war points (e.g. "World War I") had dates like the other ones- so, "1914–1918 (World War I)"

Good idea, done.--ɱ (talk) 17:39, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Briarcliff Manor is redirecting, in the lead

I am familiar with three guidelines that support using redirects over piped links, so unless there's something I've missed, shouldn't the redirect be preferred?--ɱ (talk) 17:39, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"the house of Elliott Fitch Shepard is purchased" - you've linked him earlier, and you should probably mention that the house is Woodlea again.

Good catch, fixed.--ɱ (talk) 17:39, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe add the annexation of Scarborough to the timeline bar, since you spend so much of the timeline on Scarborough pre-annexation. Maybe Mount Pleasant as well, since there's a gap there

I'll try it, but unfortunately that timeline template isn't so good, the 1906 annexation will likely be messily written over the text of the 1902 and 1908 info.--ɱ (talk) 17:39, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I feel like the lead could be a touch longer- maybe mention what size it is now, since you say it started at 1 sq mi, or what the population is/was.

Another good idea.--ɱ (talk) 17:39, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

While certainly optional, if you felt this review was helpful, consider reviewing List of Sega video game consoles further up the FLC page.

Sure, I'll take a look at it, although it might not be for a few days.--ɱ (talk) 17:39, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

--Pres N 22:34, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Switched to support. --Pres N 21:14, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks PresN. I'll make sure to write some comments on the Sega review.--ɱ (talk) 23:35, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. – SchroCat (talk) 15:55, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.