Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Olympic men's ice hockey players for Ukraine/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was archived by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 1 September 2018 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of Olympic men's ice hockey players for Ukraine[edit]

Featured list candidates/List of Olympic men's ice hockey players for Ukraine/archive1

Nominator(s): Kaiser matias (talk) 22:29, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

My first featured list candidate in a long time, so if anything is off, I apologize. This is based off similar featured lists of Olympic ice hockey players for Canada, Switzerland, and the United States, though Ukraine has only played in one Olympics (so far), so the list is significantly smaller, as is the lead. However I do believe it follows the criteria, and if so I plan to eventually get all Olympic ice hockey teams through here under a similar template. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:29, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from TompaDompa

The images should have WP:ALT text.
Done
The list of Olympic men's ice hockey players for Ukraine consists of 20 skaters and 3 goaltenders. should be rephrased per MOS:LEADSENTENCE.
Modified. Again, I followed the basic idea of the above-mentioned articles, so if it needs further refining let me know.
Chybirev, Oletsky, and Salnikov had the most points (3). should explain what "points" means or at least link to point (ice hockey).
Linked, as well as goal, and assist.
The numbers in parentheses in the WP:LEAD should be replaced with plain text without parentheses.
Done
The key should not have its own section. Place the parts that apply to the first table in the same section as the first table (above the table), and the parts that apply to the second table in the same section as the second table instead.
Done
The abbreviated headers should use the {{abbr}} template.
Done
Both the "Olympics" and "Tournaments" columns are wholly unnecessary for a country who have so far only appeared in one, and should be removed to conserve horizontal space. The "Medals" column and the "Notes" column in the second of table should also be removed for the same reason, as they are completely empty.
Done
The "Ref(s)" columns should be "Ref(s)" (i.e. {{abbr|Ref(s)|Reference(s)}}).
Done
"GP" for Oleksandr Fedorov should be "0", and the rest of the cells that currently read "–" should use the {{N/A}} template.
Done
The table of contents should be removed as it is not necessary for so short a list.
Done
I'm not sure it's necessary to have two separate tables.
I would agree, however due to skaters and goaltenders utilizing different stats, it makes it difficult to merge them without either leaving multiple empty columns for each player, or leaving out important information.
Andrew Podnieks is linked two put of three times in the "References" section. Either link all three or only the first one.
Done
The statistics for the goaltenders don't seem to add up (the number of games played should equal the sum of the wins, losses and ties, no?) and also contradict Ice hockey at the 2002 Winter Olympics, according to which Ukraine didn't tie any matches, and Simchuk only played two (against France and Latvia).
Not sure about the Ice hockey at the 2002 Winter Olympics article, but the official IIHF report of the tournament has both Karpenko and Simchuk playing in 3 games, with 65 and 174 minutes played, respectively (see this and this). I am in the middle of transiting my reference material, but will go through it once available to correct the above article, as something isn't adding up here. Kaiser matias (talk) 15:00, 26 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Due to the short length, I don't think this passes WP:FLCR 3(b). I would consider merging the list into Ukraine men's national ice hockey team. TompaDompa (talk) 01:28, 26 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Addressed everything here. Regarding the short length, I will again admit I'm not terribly familiar with the state of FLC these days, but is length of the list a legitimate argument against promotion? I know that at FAC, while contentious at times, there is no consensus on the matter, and feel that it shouldn't be considered an issue here, as it is a fully self-contained list that should be distinct from the national team article. However if consensus here is against that then I'll not argue the case, I am just unsure is all. Kaiser matias (talk) 13:42, 26 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's a bit nuanced- basically it needs to meet WP:Stand-alone lists and WP:CFORK, which means that the list shouldn't be better kept in a parent article due to their sizes. I don't think that this list violates those guidelines, for three reasons: One, there isn't a good parent to merge to anyways- Ukraine men's national ice hockey team is about the Ukraine national team, but this list is about their Olympic team members (though, I guess practically it's just their 2002 national team members). Two, we typically are more okay with shorter lists if they're part of a well-defined set/series- in this case, Olympic men's ice hockey players per country. And Three, generally the cutoff is about 10 items, which this passes.

All that aside- it is short. Given that it is only about a single team, I'd expect more detail about the (4) matches and (23) players, and some discussion about why they only sent a team in 2002 and never since. It wouldn't have to be a ton, but right now the lead is just 1.5 paragraphs and that's a little scant. You may also consider at least listing the Ukranian Soviet Union/Unified Team players, since most of the Ukrainian Olympic players have been under that umbrella, and you have the space to discuss it. --Pres N 14:49, 27 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the information. As noted I am in the middle of moving, so don't have immediate access to some sources that could fill out the prose a bit, though I do know that information like you mentioned is there. It will just be about a week or so until I can get into it, if that is alright. Kaiser matias (talk) 14:58, 27 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately I don't think this passes criterion 3b either. Although these other articles are not particularly well developed as an older event, this list is redundant in part each to Ice hockey at the 2002 Winter Olympics and Ice hockey at the 2002 Winter Olympics – Men's team rosters, and Ukraine at the 2002 Winter Olympics. I don't see this as a topic for a stand-alone list. Reywas92^Talk 19:30, 27 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Getting the idea that this is not going to successfully pass, so may I suggest withdrawing it and saving the effort? The suggestions noted here I will take in, and while I will not try and submit similar-length lists, I do plan on going through other country lists, once I get them up to the standards here. Thanks for the reviews, it is good to have such quick, in depth feedback. Kaiser matias (talk) 19:11, 29 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, withdrawing. --Pres N 14:09, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.