Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/BBC Sports Personality of the Year Award/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Scorpion0422 21:28, 23 June 2009 [1].

BBC Sports Personality of the Year Award[edit]

Nominator(s): Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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It's been a while but this is the last list in the SPoTY awards topic I have been working on. I had some early discussion with Scorpion about how to format it, and hopefully it is now okay. If there are still problems I guess the images could go. Also note that Checklinks for me is indicating that a Times article is dead even though it isn't. Thanks in advance for any comments. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008
Oppose – Found quite a bit to do throughout the list, so I'm opposing for now. Of course, I'll reconsider once these are done.
  • Some inconsistencies when it comes to numbers. I see 30 and two uses of ten. Is the latter your limit for spelling out numbers?
    • Yes, per the MoS. numbers greater than nine are commonly rendered in numerals, or may be rendered in words if they are expressed in one or two words hence ten as words, 30 as numerals. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 01:20, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in the result of a tie at the end of the nomination process". "in the event of" is a more common phrase. I haven't seen "in the result of" before. Not saying that it's wrong, but it does strike me as unusual.
    • Done
  • Italics needed for Radio Times.
    • Done
  • "Since then, numerous other awards have been introduced to the ceremony which now consists of eight awards." Comma before "which".
    • Done
  • "The oldest recepient of the award Dai Rees who won in 1957 aged 44." Missing "is" before name and comma after.
    • Done
  • Another comma after Ian Black.
    • Done
  • Table: Is the Union in Rugby Union a proper noun? If not, decapitalize it.
    • Done
  • Captions need a few more commas after before "who"s.
    • Question. I might be being thick but I've never heard of this. I thought the comma came after the name and before who, like they currently are. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 01:20, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think he meant after "who" too. Take a look at the lead caption. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:52, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Actualy, I think he put an incorrect suggestion above. :-) Giants2008 (17-14) 22:34, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Done
  • Note 1: "Before her marriage 14 November 1973". Is "on" missing?
    • Done
  • Note 3: "However the BBC deemed this to be against the rule...". Either change to "rules" or say what rule was violated.
    • Done
  • Reference titles shouldn't be in all caps, even if the sites present them that way.
    • Done

Giants2008 (17-14) 23:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for the comments. They have either been addressed or commented on. Best wishes, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 01:20, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support – Maintaining some caution because of the one source I'm hesitant about, but everything else is good. Giants2008 (17-14) 21:13, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:08, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • "a panel of 30 sports journalists each put forward a list of ten contenders." Suggest "submitted" instead of "put forward".
    • Done
  • "The shortlist is announced at the beginning of December, and on the night of the ceremony a public telephone vote during the live show takes place to determine the winner." This seems wordy. Suggest "The shortlist is announced at the beginning of December, and the winner is determined on the night of the ceremony by a public telephone vote."
    • Done
  • "who had the idea while he was editor"-->who thought of the idea while he was editor
    • Done
  • "For the first show, voting was by postcard"-->For the first show, voting were sent by postcard
    • Done
  • "innaguaral " Misspelled.
    • Done
  • "Three people have won the award more than once"-->Three people have won the award multiple times
    • Done
  • "HRH The Princess Anne (1971) and her daughter Zara Phillips (2006) are the only example of two members of the same family winning the award."-->HRH The Princess Anne (1971) and her daughter Zara Phillips (2006) are the only pair of award-winners to be members of the same family
    • Done
  • "Out of the fifty-six recipients, thirteen have been female."-->Out of the 56 recipients, 13 have been female.
    • Query. I'm not sure about this, all through the lead it is talking about number of recipients in some form, be it country, sex, sport etc. Aren't they all just comparable quanities and therefore should be consistent (i.e. spelled out)? Rambo's Revenge (talk) 17:47, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes. The MOS also says that numbers over ten should be in numeral form. Change this throughout the lead (except where changing this would create inconsistencies in the sentence). Dabomb87 (talk) 15:31, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Not often I disagree with you but here I do. Firstly, both ways comply with MOS per or may be rendered in words if they are expressed in one or two words. However I actually think it should all be spelled out because from the third paragraph onwards "Three people" is comparable with "fifty-six recipients" which is comparable to "forty-six English winners of the award: four Scottish, ...". Or at least that is my interpretation of Comparable quantities should be all spelled out or all figures. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 10:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Counting them separately, there have been forty-six English winners of the award," Colon, not comma, at the end of this phrase.
    • If you say so
  • "Greg Rusedski is the only winner not to be born in the British Isles"-->Greg Rusedski is the only winner who was born in the British Isles
    • Assuming you meant Greg Rusedski is the only winner who was not born in the British Isles then done. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 17:47, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, I did, thanks for seeing through my mistake. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:31, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "became the most successful British Olympian for 100 years." "for"-->in
    • Done
  • I know I haven't mentioned this before, but you need to make a key for the flags and spell the countries out in full per MOS:FLAG. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:52, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Um I believe it does comply with MOSFLAG. Scorpion and I discussed this (see intro not) and I (not saying "we" as I don't want to misquote him) believe that the three letter codes after the name cover this. I know WP:OSE but this seems to be a method used in current (recent) FL List of Olympic medalists in alpine skiing and current FLC List of Olympic medalists in badminton. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 17:47, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm still wary about this. I'll ask the good people at the MOS. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:31, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • See this. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • The people there actually recommend that you lose the flags altogether. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • Okay assuming the flags are lost do we want linked abbreviations, abbr. linked on first occurance or full names? Rambo's Revenge (talk) 17:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • Actually someone pointed me to the Country can sometimes be omitted when flag re-used' section in MOSFLAG, which says: "for example {{flag|Japan}}, or its shorter variant {{flag|JPN}} should be used first". This seems to indicate three letter abbreviations are acceptable. Obviously if people still deem a change necessary there are the options given in my struck comment. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 13:54, 20 June 2009 (UTC)\[reply]
              • If the flags go, I would recommend just using abbreviations. I'd also like to see links only on the first use, if they are necessary at all. Giants2008 (17-14) 21:24, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
                • I really don't have a beef with the flags; I just want to make sure everything is accessible to readers and that there is consistency across articles. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:08, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As always many thanks for the comments, I believe I have addressed or queried each one. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 17:47, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:52, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Crzycheetah
  • Comments Well constructed list
    • In November, a panel of 30 sports journalists each submitted a list of ten contenders. - A very confusing sentence. Does this happen every year or just last year? 30 sports journalists of BBC or other companies involved, as well?
      • Rather luckily for me the beeb have just updated their page for the 2009 ceremony. So these were the rules last year, and they are the same this year. As a result I've changed to the present tense "submit". The journalists are "from a selection of newspaper sports editors (national and regional) and magazines." I could add that in but I think it is unnecessary. Does it still need clarifying that they are general sports journalists? Rambo's Revenge (talk) 10:39, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • a panel of six former award winners determines the nominee - How about 1958? There were no "former winers", what would happen if there were a tie?
      • Done, added "currently, ..."
    • There are only two red links here: Marion Coakes and Paddy McMahon. It's not a requirement, but since there are only two, it shouldn't be a problem to get rid of them.
      • Okay, I'll work on that in a bit. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 10:39, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Done, although Marion Coakes is an example of why I don't usually make stubs for redlinks as I spend hours googling some vague person and try to add everything in existence about them. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 14:41, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As for the flags, I think both should stay: flags and linked abbr. In a sortable table, abbreviations without links are useless.
    • I'm staying out the flag thing now. As my sandbox shows, I'm willing to make changes if deemed necessary. I just await an outcome from discussion between reviewers. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 10:39, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

--Crzycheetah 01:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Hassocks5489

Comments from Hassocks5489 – I am close to supporting.

  • Table format looks appropriate and logical, and is consistent with similar lists.
  • I don't have a strong preference about the flags issue, but I'm inclined to agree with Crzycheetah's comment (so I approve of how it is at the moment).
  • In the lead, "Torvill and Dean are the only non-individual winners of the award, having won in 1986" might be better as "Torvill and Dean, who won in 1986, are the only non-individual winners of the award".
    • Done
  • In current ref [18], "Gareth A Davies" has no full stop after the A; in ref [29], he has one.
    • Done, good spot.
  • After "Three people have won the award multiple times", I would prefer a colon to a semicolon, otherwise it gives the impression that the following clause is not related to it.
    • Done
  • The main thing I wanted to ask: is there a reason behind the choice of the word "athlete" rather than "athletics" to pipe-link to the sports of the various athletes? "Athletics" is used in the "By sport" table, and by other lists in this series. Sorry if this has been discussed before; it's the first time I've reviewed one of these lists :)
    • It hasn't been discussed before and you are quite right, it was just a mistake I made. Thanks for spotting it, it has now been corrected. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:26, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 20:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for taking a look. You comments are much appreciated and have hopefully now been resolved. Best wishes, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:26, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support – everything resolved. The AWB replacements of "Athlete" with "Athletics" broke one external link, which I repaired. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 08:07, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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