Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Worlds (Porter Robinson album)/archive1

Worlds (Porter Robinson album)[edit]

Featured article candidates/Worlds (Porter Robinson album)/archive1

Nominator(s): Skyshiftertalk and TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 00:02, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

After becoming popular as an electronic dance music artist, Porter Robinson eventually grew weary of the style, writing his debut album Worlds in an attempt to break the conventions of the culture. The album used a novel blend of influences to evoke a sense of grandeur and nostalgia over the pounding bass music of Robinson's discography prior. The article was significantly expanded by my co-nominator Skyshifter (who did most of the work, honestly), and after an excellent GAN review from Averageuntitleduser, we feel confident that this article is ready for an FAC review. We look forward to your comments! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 00:02, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comment by Davest3r08[edit]

What makes Fuse.tv reliable? There's no mention of it on WP:RSP or WP:A/S. (AGF comment) Davest3r08 >:3 ^(talk) 16:47, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd note that the Fuse videos are interviews with Robinson and I am exclusively using his words; even if it's unreliable, WP:ABOUTSELF would apply. Skyshiftertalk 16:49, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Draken Bowser[edit]

..Daft Punk's Discovery (2001), an album Robinson considers the best of all-time.. - Man's got good taste.

No kidding! —TS

lead

Prefer "He was inspired by ~~fictional themes, including~~ elements"
Done for now. Skyshifter, we've discussed the phrasing of this point before as well. Let me know if you want to workshop it in the lead or in § Composition any further! —TS
"including sounds from 1990s video games." - According to the body this is mostly about the video game music, could be made clearer since sound effects from video games have been a source of inspiration, and sampled by various artists.
I could use some clarification on what changes you're envisioning here. This sentence in the lead is referring to Robinson's use of general MIDI sounds, which were used in many 90s-era video games. —TS
Then we're good. /DrB

Background and development

"which became one of his first principles for Worlds." - The former or the latter?
Rephrased; it's both. —TS

Composition

Prefer "and emotional feel~~ing~~."
Rephrased as "atmosphere" instead. —TS

Critical reception

"Some critics thought Worlds demonstrated that Robinson could have a promising career." - I know that there's nothing wrong here, but the tone of "demonstrate" feels at odds with a sentence about the future, could we rephrase?
Rephrased. —TS

Legacy

"Robinson's struggles with depression, writer's block and mental health" - Recommend using either the specific or the general, or rephrase into something like "struggles with mental health including bouts of depression".
Rephrased to be more in line with WP:SUFFER. —TS

I was becoming a bit concerned over the lack of any commentary at all on music and lyrics, until I realized I had set the printer to duplex printing. Cheers. Draken Bowser (talk) 09:24, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again for the review, Draken Bowser! ~~All comments in progress~~. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 15:31, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All comments addressed, some need clarification. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 21:48, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On a second pass everything looks good. Draken Bowser (talk) 17:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Draken Bowser! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 18:05, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

comments from sawyer-mcdonell[edit]

can't promise i'll give a long review, but i'll look this over. ping me if it's been more than a week! ... sawyer * he/they * talk 21:15, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ping as requested. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 00:04, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for the reminder - i'll give it a look-over tonight :) ... sawyer * he/they * talk 03:33, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

comments

(leade) Following the album's positive reception, Robinson experienced a period of writer's block and depression, leading to the seven-year wait for his next studio album, Nurture (2021). - this seems counterintuitive & should probably clarify that the reason for the writer's block/depression was the feeling of pressure; you'd only need to add like 3 words i think
Done. —TS
in general i think the leade could be a bit longer; at 3k words MOS:LEADLENGTH suggests 2-3 paragraphs, so not strictly necessary, but just a suggestion of mine
Is there anything you'd recommend adding? I had this concern myself earlier but couldn't find much that I could justify adding to the lead. —TS
(composition section) Barry Walters of Wondering Sound said that most of Worlds uses "ballad-speed" beats per minute. this doesn't mean anything to me (i don't know much about this aspect of music); is ballad-speed particularly fast or slow?
Rephrased. —TS
(tracks 1-5 section) The next track, "Sad Machine", was the first Robinson had ever recorded vocals for. first track ever? first track on the album? presumably the first, but this isn't completely clear to me as i'm not familiar with this genre or artist
Clarified. —TS
the reception section says it received critical acclaim & positive reviews but about 2/3 of the section is negative or lukewarm reviews; this is somewhat incongruous to me - is a 6/10 "acclaim"?
@Skyshifter: Sources seem conflicted on this one. How do you feel about switching it to "mixed to positive" and mentioning that critics have mainly acclaimed it in retrospect? —TS
~~Done~~. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 20:15, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Struck; changes reverted after further discussion with Skyshifter. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 21:20, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just removed the "critical acclaim" part instead of adding "mixed to positive" to avoid possible OR; keeping just the Metacritic assessment. Skyshiftertalk 21:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i don't have a ton of commentary for this article, partially because i'm not super familiar with album articles & others have gotten to things before me... but it's also just a really good article! i'll read through a couple more times tomorrow to see if there's anything else needing attention. great job :3 ... sawyer * he/they * talk 05:29, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Sawyer! Working on these now. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 05:32, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sawyer-mcdonell: All comments addressed; clarifications needed on a couple. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 05:56, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

with regard to the leade length, i think a sentence or two more about the release & promotion could help beef it up; there's plenty of content in the body section to pull from. however, looking at it i agree that there's probably not more than a few sentences you could add without it becoming trivia. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 18:05, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sawyer-mcdonell: Done(?) I've added a little, but was once again unable to justify adding a lot of the more detailed points in the body, which feel out of place for the lead. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 19:23, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

looks good to me! pending the finishing of the other reviews, no barriers to supporting now, in my view. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 22:15, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Elli[edit]

Missed the OneShot FAC and you've somehow made it to FAC with another piece of media I've enjoyed. Will review shortly. Elli (talk | contribs) 04:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you add timestamps to the YouTube interview cites?
- I will do that soon.
  - All done! Skyshiftertalk 19:49, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Might be worth mentioning that "Hear the Bells" is a remix of "Bells Of Cologne" in particular (if a RS can be found for that).
- Added the album's liner notes
"The eighth track is "Lionhearted"" think you mean ninth.
- Done
"Shepherdess" isn't mentioned elsewhere in prose. Probably a good idea to mention it in the fourth paragraph?
- Of which section? I don't think there's much to be added regarding "Shepherdess" other than what is in "Release and promotion". (I've also now remembered to add information about "Hollowheart", which was supposed to be on Worlds.)
- Added more information about "Shepherdess" and "Hollowheart" in "Release and promotion".
  - That footnote looks good. I was thinking the fourth paragraph of "Release and promotion"; probably should've specified that. Elli (talk | contribs) 21:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The source about the "Flicker" mentions that the scenery is Japanese a few times; seems relevant.
- Done
Could more be written about the remix album?
- Not much; the album didn't get any reviews, for example. There is an extensive article just about Worlds Remixed's artwork but I believe that would be too much unnecessary detail.
  - Hm. Could probably add another sentence about how they met and the artstyle given how much coverage that source gives? Agree more would be unnecessary. Elli (talk | contribs) 21:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - Added. Skyshiftertalk 19:49, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's about all I can find. Pretty nice work! Elli (talk | contribs) 05:03, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments! In progress. Skyshiftertalk 15:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article looks great now -- support. Elli (talk | contribs) 01:34, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Elli! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 02:21, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Media review[edit]

Passes; details below.

Three of the works of media—one album cover and two song samples—are copyrighted. All three have sufficient fair-use rationales and are either low-resolution enough or short enough to not replace the commercial viability of its songs.
All other media present in the article is appropriately licensed for either public domain or Creative Commons.
All images have suitable alt text.
Sourcing for each work of media checks out.
All media present in the article contributes greatly to its encyclopedic value.

Support on media; great work, both of you! Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 19:33, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Dylan620! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 19:34, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Skyshiftertalk 19:50, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

Are Your EDM and Pitchfork (website) a high-quality reliable source? AllMusic too has some quality concerns. Seems like we are mostly using prominent magazines here, otherwise. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking as a reviewer, I can vouch for the reliability of Pitchfork, which is considered a significant authority in music journalism. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 11:42, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Your EDM source is an exclusive interview with Porter Robinson; WP:ABOUTSELF should apply. Pitchfork is one of the biggest music websites in the world, and their reviews can be found on multiple recent album FAs. According to WP:ALLMUSIC, "There is consensus that RhythmOne websites are usable for entertainment reviews with in-text attribution." Likewise, their reviews have widespread usage on recent album FAs. Skyshiftertalk 12:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aoba47[edit]

I think it would be worth linking electronic music in the lead's first sentence.
I am uncertain about the "realizing" word choice for this part, (the electronic dance music (EDM) genre, realizing it limited his artistic expression). I think something like "believing" would be better suited for this as it is his opinion. I feel the current word choice present this idea of EDM music being limiting as too much of an objective statement rather than how he felt about it.
I am not sure if the quotes in the lead (i.e. "beauty" and "emotion") are really necessary and I think there would be a way to paraphrase them instead.
I am unsure about the prose for this sentence: (He was inspired by elements from video games, anime, and movies, as well as nostalgia, including sounds from 1990s video games.) My specific concern is that the sentence repeats that he was inspired by video games twice.
I have a clarification question about this part, (Described as electropop, Robinson's main inspirations for Worlds). Do you mean that his inspirations were described as electropop? That is how the sentence is constructed right now, but since electropop is in the infobox as the album's genre, I was not sure if it was intended to be a description for Worlds instead. If so, then the sentence would need to be revised.
I have a comment for this part, (with critics noting similarities to the sounds of M83 and Passion Pit). I would avoid the "with X verb-ing" sentence construction as it is a note that I see quite often on FACs. It is not seen as the strongest writing. I do not have a strong opinion about it either way, but I think it is best avoided so I would revise that out anywhere else in the article.
This part, (a bidding war ensued to determine the label which was to release the record), reads a little strange to me. I think something like (a bidding war ensued to determine which the label would release the record) would be clearer.
This part from the lead ("The album was promoted with four singles ..." and "and promoted with a tour") has "promoted" used two times in the same sentence. It would be best to avoid such repetition.
I would rephrase this part, (felt under pressure), to (felt pressured), as the current wording seems a bit off to me.

I hope this review is helpful so far. These comments are just for the lead. I will read through the article today and continue my review as I go, but I wanted to post a starting point. Best of luck with the FAC! Aoba47 (talk) 20:49, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could you clarify this part for me, (he decided to create the music he wanted to hear and felt needed to exist)? I am not entirely sure what type of music is being referenced? Based on this section, I understand he wanted to move away from EDM and club music, but I do not really have a handle on what music he wants to make instead.
Is this sentence necessary: "After its completion, Robinson named Worlds his favorite project." I would imagine that most artists would say that about an album that they just released or are actively promoting. It reminds me of how "this is my most personal album/song" is often used in similar contexts. It might be noteworthy if he still felt that way or continued to say that years later, but I do not really see the value with just this alone.
The beginning of the "Composition" section seems a touch repetitive. The first sentence says the album has themes of escapism and fantasy and the quote in the second sentence repeats that. The third sentence also repeats the focus on fiction, which is also brought in the first sentence. Nostalgia is also brought up in the first sentence only to be repeated later in the same paragraph. I think that it would be worth revisiting the prose in this paragraph.
I do not think the MMORPG acronym is necessary as it is not discussed elsewhere in the article. I have the same comment for IDM later in the article.
For this part, (chose the album title "Worlds"), the album title should not be in quotation marks.
This part, (Multiple critics noted that the album's sound resembled M83), uses four citations. I think it would be worth considering citation bundling to avoid any concerns over citation overkill.
The wording for this part, (Elissa Stolman wrote to Vice), is a bit off. It reads to me like someone wrote to the publication (lik writing them a letter or something) rather than being someone who works for the publication.
I have a question for this part, (because it was the first he wrote in a style he considered representative of Worlds). What would this style be? It seems like it is talking around it a bit.
File:Porter Robinson - Sad Machine.ogg would need stronger justification for inclusion in my opinion. It is encouraged to keep non-free media usage to a minimal and should be use to illustrate a point that cannot be convey through the prose alone. I would suggest only using an audio sample if it is somehow representative of the album as a whole. The WP:FUR says that it is used "to better explain the sounds of the album, which can't be done with text alone", but this should be made more apparent in the caption. I have the same issue with File:Porter Robinson - Lionhearted.ogg.
For the WP:FUR for the audio samples, I would suggest changing the source parameter to it being sourced to the album.
This part, (Describing it as a "duet between a lonely robot girl and the human boy", Robinson), needs to be revised as it is saying that Robinson is this duet. There is a similar issue with this part, (With a mid-tempo instrumental and "starry-eyed melodic structure", Larry Fitzmaurice of Pitchfork), which reads that Fitzmaurice has this instrumental and structure.
I would revise this part, (With "ethereal electro vibes", in the words of Consequence of Sound's Derek Staples, Stolman), as I do not think the attempt to combine multiple critics in a single sentence in this way is really clear. It is also saying that Stolman has these vibes.
Is "Hear the Bells" a cover or a remix? This part, (It is a cover, or remix, of a preexisting song by the band), seemingly calls it both, but I believe a cover and a remix are separate things entirely.
For this part, (A five-minute orchestral track, its first minutes), it is saying the first minutes are a "five-minute orchestral track", not the song itself so it would need to be rewritten.
For this part, ( the passage contains "an angry onslaught of dubstep jackhammering", according to Walters), I am not sure that "passage" is the right word choice.
I have noticed that a lot of quotations are used throughout the article. I have a tendency to over-use quotes myself, but it may be worth paraphrasing some of these.

I am stopping my review here as I would like to take a small break. This is up to the "Release and promotion" section. I will continue my review once everything is addressed. Aoba47 (talk) 21:24, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just wanted to add on that the article does not discuss the album's commercial performance (i.e. chart placement) in the prose for either the lead or the actual article. Apologies if I am missing it. From what I can see this information is just in the "Chart performance" table at the end, but it has to be present in the prose as well. Aoba47 (talk) 21:38, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]