Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Reg Pollard (general)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 01:53, 17 May 2016 [1].

Reg Pollard (general)[edit]

Nominator(s): Ian Rose (talk) 00:32, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bringing Australian General John Wilton to FAC last year was the culmination of a three-year journey improving that particular article but this one was almost spur-of-the-moment -- I became interested in Reg Pollard simply because he was Wilton's predecessor as chief of the Australian Army and it went from there. I even found out that Pollard had a connection to Wilton's predecessor as head of the Australian military, Frederick Scherger, as they were classmates at the Royal Military College, Duntroon, and obviously had a similar sense of humour (see first para of Early life)... Anyway, hope you enjoy his story; the article has passed GAN and MilHist ACR -- thanks in advance to all who comment here. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:32, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 02:28, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Tks as always Dan -- was quite chuffed with getting "colonelcy" in there but not wed to it, however I think the way we mentioned him as aide-de-camp to first KGVI and then QEII during 1951-54 was a bit clearer before (though not necessarily beyond improvement)... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:55, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, just checked Google ngrams and it's more common than I thought. It's fine. - Dank (push to talk) 04:20, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:50, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Tks Nikki! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:41, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Singora - Monday 25/4 Singora (talk) 03:31, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I started skimming this with no intention of commenting, and then noticed you refer to Camberley. That's where I grew up. I have a question: over the weekend I started a new article, Seri Rambai, and as yet no one has added any of that category / classification blurb to the talk page. Do I need to wait for this to be done, or can I start using the talk page as things stand. I'd like to use the page as a sort of repository for sources I didn't use in the article.

My apologies, I overlooked your question here -- I've added some basic banners to the talk page, they could be added to. That is a great picture of the cannon in the infobox BTW. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:52, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'll go through your article:

  • 1. This "Born in Bathurst, New South Wales, Pollard graduated from the Royal Military College, Duntroon, in 1924" is a non sequitur. See non sequitur. Under "Non Sequiturs in Newspapers", you'll see the example: "Slim, of medium height, and with sharp features, Mr. Smith's technical skills are combined with strong leadership qualities (New York Times)".
    • Stet. No significant difference between this and "he was born in Bathurst and graduated from ...". - Dank (push to talk)
      • Yes, I get non sequiturs, and that the second clause doesn't automatically follow from the first here, but OTOH it's all background info and it avoids two short, staccato sentences separating the two elements.
  • 2. You need to link New Guinea in the summary.
    • Okay.
  • 3. Consistency. In the first paragraph you have "In 1938 he was posted to England"; in the second you've got " In 1957, he was promoted to lieutenant general". Why do you need the comma?
    • No opinion on this particular comma, but in general, consistency isn't enforced (on or off Wikipedia) on commas after short introductory phrases. - Dank (push to talk)
      • Removed second one.
  • 4. This is where a bit of variety might help: "In 1957, he was promoted to lieutenant general and took charge of Eastern Command in Sydney; he was appointed a Companion of the Order of the Bath in 1959." -> "In 1957, he was promoted to lieutenant general and took charge of Eastern Command in Sydney; two years later he was appointed a Companion of the Order of the Bath."
    • Okay.
  • 5. Apart from the date + comma issue, this sentence seems to come out of nowhere "In 1962, the first team of Australian military advisors deployed to South Vietnam". Is it supposed to be here?
  • 6. "After retiring from the military in 1963, Pollard became Honorary Colonel of the Royal Australian Regiment, and also served as Australian Secretary to Queen Elizabeth II during the Royal Visit in 1970; he was appointed a Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order the same year" -> "After retiring from the military in 1963, Pollard became Honorary Colonel of the Royal Australian Regiment; he served as Australian Secretary to Queen Elizabeth II during the Royal Visit in 1970 and was appointed a Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order the same year". My effort removes the "also" and clarifies dates. What you have is the equivalent of "John was born in 1970 and Paul was born in 1971; Simon was born the same year".
    • Okay.
  • 7. The section "Early life" kicks off with consecutive non sequiturs.
    • Stet. - Dank (push to talk)
      • Tweaked first to vary things but I think the second is fair enough, it's all to do with his education.
  • 8. The second sentence could use something like "three years later" in place of 1924.
    • It could have been closer to two or four years, for all I know. - Dank (push to talk)
      • I'd prefer the precise year here myself.
  • 9. Personal opinion. "The previous year, Pollard and Scherger had inaugurated a Duntroon tradition when they found a horse's jawbone during a field exercise, declared it a lucky charm on the basis of the Biblical tale of Samson slaying the Philistines with the jawbone of an ass, and brought it back to the college as a mascot; it became known as Enobesra" -> "The previous year Pollard and Scherger had inaugurated a Duntroon tradition when they found a horse's jawbone during a field exercise. Inspired by the Biblical tale in which Samson slays the Philistines with the jawbone of an ass, they declared their find a lucky charm and brought it back to the college as a mascot; it became known as Enobesra".
    • I like it -- tks.
  • 10. "In November 1938, Pollard travelled to England to attend Staff College, Camberley; he graduated in September 1939". Here again you could try something like "the following September".
    • Don't mind that (you'll note that I do like to use "the following", "the next", etc, now and then) but preferred not to have two "the"s in close proximity.
  • 11. Possible redundancy: "A cease-fire on 12 July ended the campaign (in Syria)"
    • Dunno about that -- other opinions perhaps?
  • 12. Is this the correct phrasing: "and Pollard was mentioned in despatches for his work"? The word "work" seems unusual. Think: bravery, efforts, contribution/s, leadership, endeavours, decision making, strategic foresight, etc.
    • I agree, I didn't like "work" either -- changed to "service".


This is a good article -- I'll carry on later.

Tks for taking the time to review, will try to address these shortly. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:34, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I interspersed a few comments. - Dank (push to talk) 13:53, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Tks both of you, think I've actioned or at least acknowledged everything above. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:41, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Singora -- May 2nd Singora (talk) 14:48, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'll do this while I'm eating my dinner.

  • 13. RE: "the award was gazetted on 30 December 194". Confirmed -- Pollard is mentioned on page 7358.
  • 14. How exactly are these two clauses related: "Pollard was promoted to lieutenant colonel in August 1941, and was responsible for establishing the AIF Junior Staff School in Palestine"? Are you trying to say that in 1941, while establishing the blah blab blah, he was promoted to blah blah blah? Or was he given the responsibility as a consequence of his promotion?
    • This is pretty well just how the ADB source puts it, making the connection but no more explicitly than this.
  • 15. In the lead you say "Promoted to colonel in 1942, he became senior staff officer of the 7th Division in New Guinea". Now you're saying "Returning to Australia in August, Pollard was appointed General Staff Officer Grade 1 of the 6th Division; he served on its headquarters in Papua from September until mid-November 1942, when he became Major General George Vasey's senior staff officer at the 7th Division". This isn't a problem, but I wonder why you've not used Papua both times.
    • I think I just wanted to refer to the broader island mass in the lead and the more narrow territorial term in the body.
  • 16. RE: "He spent the next two months attached to the headquarters staff of Northern Command". Have you dropped an apostrophe?
    • Not knowingly...!
  • 17. RE: "allotted to instruct". Not sure about the word "allotted", but did he teach? You've only told me the school was renamed and relocated.
    • The military tends to use the term "instruct" but it effectively means "teach". Happy to change "allotted" to say "assigned".
  • 18. RE: "Pollard's rank of lieutenant-colonel had been made substantive in September 1946 and his rank of colonel in July 1949". The chronology here seems wrong: we've gone from 1947 to 1948; you've told me he was appointed Director of Personnel Administration at Army Headquarters in January 1949; you've said that compulsory national service was introduced in 1951. And now you're jumping back to 1946.
    • Well, yes, I deliberately put the info about his promotions into one sentence towards the end because I felt that inserting it in a strict chronological fashion broke up the flow of the preceding info about his postings.
  • 19. RE: "from April that year until April 1954 he was aide-de-camp to King George VI". Tell me -- when did King George VI die?
    • Yes, I referred to that above with Dan after his ce, I think we need to re-tweak that sentence.
  • 20. Personal Opinion. Pollard was quoted as saying that there were "one or two" serious complaints but that he was "amazed how few there were, considering that the average soldier complains considerably all the time" -> Pollard said there were "one or two" serious complaints but was "amazed how few there were, considering that the average soldier complains considerably all the time".
    • I like your shorter version but OTOH I tend to prefer terms like "quoted as saying" or "reported as saying" when it's from a newspaper as opposed to a secondary source.
  • 21. RE: "Communist aggression". Why capitalize?
    • I think I did that for consistency with capitalisation in a quote later on.
  • 22. Just noticed you've referred to the CMF six times without linking the term (Australian_Army_Reserve).
    • I did actually -- in the lead and on first use in the main body (Early life).


More tomorrow or the next day.

  • Thanks again for your comments. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:43, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support Singora (talk) 16:23, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Very good! However:

  • 1. I think you should paranthesize CMF in the summary; ie, Citizens Military Forces (CMF). I completely missed your first reference to this.
  • 2. The deal with King George VI is that he died in 1952. You've said Pollard served as George's aide-de-camp until 1954 (QUOTE: until April 1954 he was aide-de-camp to King George VI).
  • 3. Your word "allotted" is fine.
    • Tks for that; I've tweaked per points 1 and 2. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:19, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support: looked at this at both GAN and ACR, and I think it is up to snuff for FA too. I have created specific links (albeit redirects) for Sword of Honour (Duntroon) and King's Medal (Duntroon) now, so I've added these to the article. I have a couple of minor suggestions: AustralianRupert (talk) 05:10, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • in the lead, "He served as adjutant and quartermaster in several battalions of the Citizens Military Forces (CMF) during the 1920s and 1930s." (perhaps clarify he was a Permanent Force member?) For instance, maybe this would work: "A regular officer, he served as adjutant and quartermaster in several battalions of the Citizens Military Forces (CMF) during the 1920s and 1930s."
  • "though this did not come to fruition at the time" --> perhaps state when it actually did happen (1968).
    • Tks for coming by Rupert -- appreciate all your commentary as the article's progressed, right down to your latest suggestions above, which I've implemented. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:28, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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