Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Red-tailed tropicbird/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 05:34, 17 March 2018 [1].
Red-tailed tropicbird[edit]
- Nominator(s): RileyBugz (talk · contribs) & Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:29, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
This article we feel has buffed up nicely - and is as good as red-billed tropicbird, which recently attained Featured Status. Let us know if there are any outstanding issues. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:29, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Support Comments from Aa77zz[edit]
Taxonomy
- "The red-tailed tropicbird was described by Dutch naturalist Pieter Boddaert in 1783,[3] from Mauritius." The article should include the binomial name at this point in the article.
- Mauritius needs a cite - or mention later. Note that the Isle de France = Mauritius.
- It is misleading to state that Boddaert provided a description - he only coined a binomial name which he misspelled: Phaeton rubricauda. (not his only error). Boddaert's publication is a list of the plates published to accompany Georges-Louis Leclerc, Comte de Buffon's Histoire Naturelle des Oiseaux. I've attempted to provide the background for another Boddaert species in the brown booby article. For the red-tailed tropicbird the plate (number 979) is here:
- Buffon, Georges-Louis Leclerc de; Martinet, François-Nicolas; Daubenton, Edme-Louis; Daubenton, Louis-Jean-Marie (1765–1783). Planches Enluminées D'Histoire Naturelle. Vol. Volume 10. Paris: De L'Imprimerie Royale. Plate 979, Paille-en queue de l'Isle de France.
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- Buffon, Georges-Louis Leclerc de; Martinet, François-Nicolas; Daubenton, Edme-Louis; Daubenton, Louis-Jean-Marie (1765–1783). Planches Enluminées D'Histoire Naturelle. Vol. Volume 10. Paris: De L'Imprimerie Royale. Plate 979, Paille-en queue de l'Isle de France.
and Buffon's description is here:
- Buffon, Georges-Louis Leclerc de (1781). "Le Paille-en-queue à Brins Rouges". Histoire Naturelle des Oiseaux (in French). Vol. Volume 16. Paris: De l'Imprimerie Royale. pp. 116–118.
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- Buffon, Georges-Louis Leclerc de (1781). "Le Paille-en-queue à Brins Rouges". Histoire Naturelle des Oiseaux (in French). Vol. Volume 16. Paris: De l'Imprimerie Royale. pp. 116–118.
- The Gmelin link is to the wrong page in the wrong volume. Should be "volume=Volume 1 Part 2" pp.582-583 [2]
- "that the original use of P. erubescens" But P. erubescens hasn't yet been mentioned.
- "lacked a description and was hence a nomen nudum." but Rothschild doesn't state a reason in cited source.
- " Lord Howe, Norfolk and Kermadec Islands" need links
- "Gregory Mathews then applied the name P. rubicauda roseotinctus to Rothschild's P. rubicauda erubescens." Why did he do this?
- ultimately I think it was his ego and a desire to mark his ornithological territory with as many new names and combinations as possible. The source gives no reason, but second-guessing would be that he was trying to trump Rothschild who was using a nomen nudum in erubescens so he kindly offered roseotincta as a new legitimate name. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:57, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
- Perhaps helpful for the reader at some point to add an additional citation to Check-list of Birds of the World that gives more of an overview:
- Mayr, Ernst; Cottrell, G. William, eds. (1979). Check-list of Birds of the World. Vol. Volume 1 (2nd ed.). Cambridge, Massachusetts: Museum of Comparative Zoology. pp. 157–158.
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- Mayr, Ernst; Cottrell, G. William, eds. (1979). Check-list of Birds of the World. Vol. Volume 1 (2nd ed.). Cambridge, Massachusetts: Museum of Comparative Zoology. pp. 157–158.
- "Ornithologist Mike Tarburton reviewed the known subspecies" Perhaps a year would be helpful here: "In 1989 the ornithologist Mike Tarburton reviewed ..."
More later. - Aa77zz (talk) 09:10, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Lead
- "the nest itself a scrape found on a cliff face" but the article also mentions coral atolls and cays
- "Feral cats and dogs prey on eggs" - feral dogs is a surprise - on tropical islands rats are often an important predator of ground nesting birds - the article mentions rats on Kure Atoll - perhaps "Rats and feral cats" in lead.
Taxonomy
- ssp list - link the islands
Description
- Mention that the sexes are alike - perhaps also in lead
- link remiges
- link scapulars
- having a problem here to find a destination, with List of terms used in bird topography being on place with no further information... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:30, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Distribution and habitat
- Hawaii is mentioned twice
- link Palau
Breeding
- "edge of the shrub" Shrub? Unclear. This muddles shade from shrubs and access.
Feeding
- flying fish or flyingfish?
- Spell out MHNT in the figure caption.
- How long do they live? Possibly worth citing the Australian Bird and bat banding database - maximum recovery time is 22 years 7.9 months.
- Aa77zz (talk) 13:04, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Lead
- Mention range - tropical Pacific and Indian Oceans (cf red-billed that occurs in the Atlantic)
Breeding
- Perhaps mention that adults feed young by placing their bill down the chick's gullet and regurgitating. (apparently this contrasts with Pelecaniformes etc where a chick feeds by putting its own bill into the gullet of the adult). This is described by Howell & Bartholomew 1969, by Fleet 1974 and Marchant & Higgins p. 398.
- (Age at first breeding: this USFWS page has "Birds begin breeding after 4 years of age." but I cannot find a RS for this. - no action required)
Status
- "an estimated 32,000 mature individuals". The cite for this is the IUCN page which in turn cites the 1992 HBW article (which doesn't give a total). This number is clearly an underestimate. The 2018 HBW alive article has been updated cf the book: there are more than 80,000 individuals in the eastern Pacific according to: Spear, L.B.; Ainley, D.G. (2005). "At-sea distributions and abundance of tropicbirds in the eastern Pacific". Ibis. 147 (2): 353–366. doi:10.1111/j.1474-919x.2005.00411.x.. There are an estimate 9000 pairs breeding on Europa (here - I cannot access ref 25 Le Corre & Jouventin 1997). Possibly better to omit the grand total but quote some of the other numbers.
- The article makes no mention of when or how the birds moult. Moult mentioned in Marchant & Higgins p. 943 (and Fleet 1974). "Streamers replaced constantly; usually one streamer fully grown while other being replaced."
- Aa77zz (talk) 12:33, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
I've supported above. Good work, well done. Two points (that don't affect my support) Nothing on longevity? The archived BHL links aren't needed - they don't appear to work correctly and add clutter. - Aa77zz (talk) 10:41, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
Source review by Lingzhi[edit]
- Note that just because a warning is displayed doesn't mean there's really any problem.. but I'm listing errors in case there's something we can improve:
- Boddaert, Pieter (1783); Latham, John (1785); Gmelin, Johann Friedrich (1788); Latham, John (1824); Rothschild, Walter (1900); Missing Identifier/control number, e.g. OCLC;
- Garnett, Stephen T.; Crowley, Gabriel M. "Red-tailed Tropicbird". Inconsistent use of Publisher Location (6 with; 1 without); Missing Year/Date; Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 09:13, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Support Comments from Jim[edit]
one of three closely related species of seabird of tropical Indian and Pacific Oceans.—I'd prefer "seabird species" to "species of seabird", but more to the point, as written it's incorrect. Tropicbirds breed in the Atlantic and Caribbean too. If you meant to describe the range of red-tailed only, make it clearer.
two times— ="twice"
on sand on a beach— ="on sandy beaches"
flyingfish—link to flying fish in lead at least
described this black-billed specimen as the New Holland tropicbird,[10] also described as Phaethon novae-hollandiae—repeat of "described"
he named P. rubicauda erubescens and was larger overall—strange conjunction of completely different ideas
- The Māori called it amokura, tawake, ko’ae or ’ula,[14] while the Native Hawaiians call it koa'e’ula.[15] —why not the more widespread French phaéton à brins rouges? we don't normally give non-English names unless they illustrate a point, such a s onomatopoeia name
- I am keen to promote indigenous culture and folklore...
there is a bit of maori material which I forgot to include but will only make a very stubby culture section. Just doing a last-minute skimhave added a culture section. Could put names there I suppose... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:42, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
- I am keen to promote indigenous culture and folklore...
- In "Distribution and habitat" you seem to switch randomly between "they" and "it"
- Coloration/behaviour—AE or BE?
Additionally, the tropicbird often chooses shrubs with fewer stems, also—You don't need "additionally" and "also"
lays a clutch of one egg—you don't need "a clutch of"
- Predators recorded in Western Australia include large raptors such as the white-bellied sea eagle (Haliaeetus leucogaster) and eastern osprey (Pandion cristatus), —Does the source indicate how often ospreys attach this bird? It seems extraordinary behaviour for an almost entirely piscivorous species to attack a large seabird.
- Yellow crazy ant—link
Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:20, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
- If the osprey issue can be clarified, that would be good, but happy to support now anyway Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:19, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:18, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
Comments by Wehwalt[edit]
- Probably have seen them, but couldn't tell them by sight. Some comments. I'll complete soon.
- "clinal change" While it is clear from context what is meant, I suggest a link to an appropriate article or definition.
- linked to Cline (biology) now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:43, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
- "a scrape" Ditto.
- linked to Bird_nest#Scrape now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:43, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
- "mainly flyingfish," is the lack of a space intended?
- Sir Joseph Banks is linked twice in the same paragraph, though they differ on whether the Sir is included in the link. If he is to be described as a British naturalist, it should probably be on first usage.
- "The Māori called it amokura, tawake, ko’ae or ’ula,[14] while the Native Hawaiians call it koa'e’ula.[15]" Not sure why Maori is in past tense and Native Hawaiian in present, when there are more living Maoris than Native Hawaiians and probably more speak the Maori language.
- "with one growing while the other is shed" This says to me that there are times when there are no full streamers, that while one is still growing the other is discarded. Is that accurate?
- "newborn" Newly hatched?
- "In Australian waters it could be confused with the silver gull (Chroicocephalus novaehollandiae) or various tern species, though is larger and heavier-set, with a wedge-shaped tail." I might lose the "is", or else keep it and add an "it" before "is".
- " Birds give a low growling call as a defence call, and young chatter repetitively as a begging call—made whenever parents are nearby.[22]" I might add a "the" before "young".
- "the Christmas Islands" At least as far as the Indian Ocean is concerned, there is only one, Christmas Island.
- the stray definite article was a mistake. But "Islands" is plural as it is for Europa and Aldraba as well in same sentence Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:44, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
- "Nosy Ve" Nosy Be? I'm not sure it's tiny, btw, given that our article says the name means "big island" :) . Probably more of the locations in this paragraph should have links.
- "It is an occasional visitor to Palau, with breeding recorded from the Southwest Islands,[30] and were first recorded from Guam in 1992.[31]" probably "were" should be "was" as you are steadfast in maintaining the singular.
- "California and Vancouver.[32]" The source says "Vancouver Island". You have linked to the city of Vancouver, which is not on Vancouver Island. Blame Canada for their illogic.
- "They disperse" since you are now using the plural, I would say "The birds disperse" or similar, rather than
- "The red-tailed tropicbird is a strong flyer, however it walks on land with difficulty with a shuffling gait.[7]" the double "with" is unpleasing, I would change the second "with" to "using".
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 05:34, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.