Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/James B. McCreary/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 13:56, 28 July 2011 [1].

James B. McCreary[edit]

James B. McCreary (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:12, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article just passed an A-class review from WP:MILHIST. Even though the bulk of the article is about McCreary's political career, I think the folks at WP:MILHIST have given the whole thing a good once-over and that it is now ready for promotion to FA. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:12, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support on prose per standard disclaimer. The nominator links the A-class review above. - Dank (push to talk) 13:31, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:58, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Check alphabetization of Bibliography
    • Well, I screwed that up royally, huh? I know my alphabet; I promise! Fixed now.
  • ref 34 and similar: why "in" here?
    • There are two works in the Bibliography by the same author. I used that notation to distinguish between them.
      • Yes, but why not use comma instead of "in" given that the Bibliography entry doesn't use "In"? Nikkimaria (talk) 17:10, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • I didn't know there was a guideline on this. I've used it without issue in other FAs. If it needs to be changed, though, I can change it.
  • University Press of Kentucky or The University Press of Kentucky?
    • Technically, I think the "The" is part of the name. Fixed.
  • Burckel 1978 and McCreary 1935: page formatting. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:58, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not sure what the issue is here.
      • Dash in range shouldn't be spaced. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:10, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Gotcha. I love me some dashes. Fixed.

Thanks for the review. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 16:45, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Image Review The only issue I found was that the image description page for File:JudgeJMHarlan.jpg is lacking authorship information and needs a bit of cleanup. Sven Manguard Wha? 21:32, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose A reasonable amount of time has passed and the concern from the image review was not addressed. Once that's handled this oppose can be struck. Sven Manguard Wha? 20:47, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I forgot about this note and was off-wiki most of the long weekend. I didn't upload this image, but since it's part of the Brady-Handy Collection, I assume the author must have been Mathew Brady or Levin Corbin Handy. If that's insufficient, I have uploaded some other images of Harlan to Commons myself and could speak more authoritatively to their origins. One of them could be switched out for this one. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 14:01, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Struck. In all honesty, I thought that people would be watching their FACs all the time, as most concerns raised at this page get handled within hours. Getting nothing but static was surprising. It didn't occour to me that you might be gone. I'm sorry for that. Sven Manguard Wha? 04:56, 6 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. With an eight-month-old at home, sometimes I'm "gone" even when I'm not gone! Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:22, 6 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh don't worry, it'll all get better... in seventeen and a half years or so. :D Sven Manguard Wha? 04:04, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: I'm surprised that this has been lacking in reviews, so I took a look over it. Here's what I found:

  • It's not really clear when he joins the confederate army. The article jumps from him passing the bar to the regiment being built in 1862. There may not be much on his joining other than the fact that he did, but if there is anything on a why/when it would be a nice addition.
    • I think some of the ambiguity came from an edit made as a result of the peer review. I've tried to clean that up now.
  • There's a few single-digit numbers out there (6 percent, 8 percent) that can be written out per mosnum.
    • I think I got them all. I'm inclined to leave "2 percent" just before the "Construction of the new governor's mansion" section because of it's proximity to "8,718 votes", which clearly has to be expressed in numerals.

Those were the only couple things I noticed; upon them being fixed I would be happy to support. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 03:27, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. Let me know if there are other issues or if I missed anything. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 16:36, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I have no further issues with the article. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 18:40, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. Nineteenth century Kentucky is very much out of my comfort zone, but this is second from bottom and we seem to be lacking in reviewers, so I'll give it a once over. Actually, I enjoyed reading it more than I thought I would. It's very well written and strikes a good balance between comprehensiveness and over-detail. I do have a few comments, which I've posted below. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • MOS:BIO suggests that nationality is what should be mentioned at the very beginning (it doesn't say anything pro or con about sub-national entities like US States). I would suggest adding "was an American lawyer and politician..." and possibly mentioning Kentucky a little later in the first paragraph if it's relevant to his notability.
  • Do we really need to state that Kentucky is a US state and, if so, do we need to link to the article on the states?
    • To both points ... sorry I'm not following, what are you saying is wrong with the first sentence? "James Bennett McCreary (July 8, 1838 – October 8, 1918) was a lawyer and politician from the U.S. state of Kentucky." - Dank (push to talk)
      • Well, why not just say "...from Kentucky". Most people know that Kentucky is a US state, and the few of my compatriots who think it's part of the Empire have the link to Kentucky. And if we are going to say that it's a US sate, do we really need to link to the article U.S. state? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • We could reword so that it's a little tighter, something like "He was a US lawyer and politician, the first governor of Kentucky." That at least implies Kentucky is a state, and as you say, they could follow the link. I disagree that we can assume the reader is familiar with Kentucky, because I've seen estimates of a billion people who speak or read English worldwide. When I was in Austria a while back, just about nobody I asked was familiar with North Carolina. - Dank (push to talk) 12:59, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • I've adopted this "was a ___ from the U.S. state of Kentucky" first sentence for most of the politician articles that I've worked on after getting several comments that not all English speakers will know that Kentucky is a U.S. state. It seems to have flown well in other GAC and FAC nominations. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
            • It seems a little unnecessary to me, since the article is about McCreary, not Kentucky. Those who don't know that Kentucky is a US state (and are interested) can click the link to Kentucky. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:25, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • both houses is certainly overlinking. If it was an article specifically pertaining to the US Congress, you could get away with it, but linking to the generic article, especially when the very next link is to United States Congress, is unnecessary and doesn't add any encyclopaedic value.
  • Is it unusual for Kentucky Governors to serve two non-consecutive terms?
    • Only four men have done it: McCreary, Isaac Shelby, John L. Helm, and A. B. "Happy" Chandler. However, from 1799 until 1992, the governor was forbidden by the state constitution from succeeding himself in office, so serving two non-consecutive terms was the only way to serve two terms at all for most of the office's history. James Garrard served two consecutive terms prior to the constitutional prohibition. Paul E. Patton served two consecutive terms after the prohibition was abolished. J. C. W. Beckham ascended to the governorship after the assassination of William Goebel and was then re-elected; his eligibilty was challenged in court, but the court upheld it. As you can see, serving two terms as Kentucky governor is a rare thing period. :) Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is graduating law school (as opposed to graduating from law school) American English, or does it sound as odd there as it does to a Brit?
  • Ditto was twice chosen Speaker of the House.
  • Is 11th Kentucky Cavalry likely to turn blue? This article spent a month prominently advertised within MilHist, so I'm surprised, if it's notable, that nobody there (where you're most likely to find interest in a military subject) took the initiative to create an article.
    • At one time, Spacini was creating articles for all of the Kentucky Confederate infantry units, but I don't know if he was planning to do the cavalry as well. I suspect somebody somewhere might create it, but I do politics, not military history, most of the time. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • A snippet in the lead about how he moved from law to politics might help to make the sentence a little less abrupt—it currently sounds like being elected was a natural progression from his legal practice.
    • I didn't really find much on that, but I've reworded the sentence to make it seem less like one is connected to the other. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps split the third paragraph of the lead? either into a fourth, or by making the second a little longer, but it seems quite big (and is longer than the first two put together)
    • I've done some re-arranging of paragraphs; see what you think.
  • Is Bennett his mother's maiden name? It's common practice (though I don't know if it's codified anywhere) to indicate this with "née".
    • Nay. Most Americans don't know the word (sadly, but we play the hand we're dealt). - Dank (push to talk) 01:49, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm one of the Americans who does know the word, but the parentheses notation is most common in the sources I've consulted on this and several other articles. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did he pay for his commission? I know this was common in British and European armed forces of the day, I don't know about the other side of the Atlantic.
    • Again, military history isn't my gig, but I'm pretty sure that was not and is not common practice in the U.S. military. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • How did Breckinridge come to know him?
    • The sources don't give an exact connection, but both men were Kentucky politicians, although Breckinridge was seventeen years older. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did he do anything notable as a lawyer? He can;t have been bad at it, given that he kept returning to it every time politics didn't work out...
    • Well, law was his profession and what he was trained for, so I don't think it was that surprising that he would return to it between tenures in office. I didn't find anything notable about his legal career. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • and his well-established political machine doesn't strike me a particularly neutral. I'd remove the phrase altogether personally, I don't think it adds much.
    • It is pretty well-established the Beckham was a political boss who controlled a political machine. This is the term that even modern sources use. I'm inclined to leave it in some form because the lack of support from Beckham's political machine explains how a sitting two-time governor could do so poorly in a Senate primary later in the article. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • One last question: did he ever consider running for president? It is, after all, the ultimate elected position in the US, and if he considered it, or had a reason for not considering it, that would make an interesting addition tot he article.
    • I can't find anything that says either way. His Confederate service, which was ironically a boon to most candidates for office in Kentucky, probably would have hurt him in a run for president, but that's speculation on my part. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and there are one or two of my edits (indicated in the edit summaries) that you may want to double-check (I'm a Brit, so I'm not too familiar with the intricacies of American English). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Great copyediting and comments, thanks. ACDixon, I hope I'm not intruding, I thought offering a few replies might be helpful. - Dank (push to talk) 01:49, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not a problem at all. I'm always glad for the help, especially with a little one at home now. I'm not on-wiki nearly as much as I used to be. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the review. Let me know if there are further issues. It may be Monday before I'm back on-wiki, as I'm expecting a busy weekend. Your patience will be appreciated. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. All comments but a minor point addressed; seems to meet the criteria. Thanks for the fixes. Ucucha 01:08, 23 July 2011 (UTC) Comments from Ucucha:[reply]

  • "He was the first governor to reside in the state's second (and current) governor's mansion and is the only governor to inhabit both the old and new mansions." This seems rather trivial to me, and the second fact is almost implied by the first; do you really need it in the lead?
    • It's a rather interesting factoid, but maybe too prominent in the lead. I've moved it down a bit. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Opinions differ, I guess; I'd consider it trivial. Why not put this with the sentence about his being part of the committee to design the new mansion? Ucucha 01:08, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The paragraphing of the lead is a little odd; perhaps you should split the very long third paragraph.
  • The first paragraph of "Early life" has a lot of short, choppy sentences, some of which may be better off merged.
  • "During his tenure, McCreary represented Kentucky's agricultural interests, introducing a bill to create the United States Department of Agriculture."—was this bill successful?
    • Apparently, this one wasn't, but one based on it was. Added.

Some of my comments are minor and may reflect my personal preferences rather than real problems with the article; feel free to disregard them. Ucucha 12:13, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I've addressed these comments as best I can. See my note to HJ Mitchell above; I may be off-wiki all weekend, but I'll try to respond to any further comments on Monday at the latest. Thanks for your review. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 13:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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