Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/George Mason/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 03:23, 12 December 2015 [1].

George Mason[edit]

Nominator(s): Wehwalt (talk) 15:38, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about... George Mason, an ornery fellow who hung out in Fairfax County Virginia, and went to Philadelphia once in his life and never went back. Through what he said and wrote in both places, he's had a considerable influence on the basic rules of American law and society, and indeed elsewhere as well. Enjoy. Wehwalt (talk) 15:38, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Support: I read this article very carefully before and after the suggestions below. Everything has been addressed, and it was in fine shape to begin with. Comments: (just getting started and I'll post piecemeal, please bear with me here). Great article, totally FA quality! My only real concern is a number of examples of "fancy language" where ordinary terminology would do. This is important if someone outside the US/UK is reading it, where this sort of language might not be understood.

  • "which served in place of the dying royal government there."

This statement will not be clear to anyone outside the US/UK. This should be clarified, and "dying"...

  • He also penned a constitution for the state; others who sought to have the convention adopt their ideas, like Thomas Jefferson (who wrote from Philadelphia), found Mason's plan could not be stopped.

It is not clear what "Mason's plan" is in this case. Is it the constitution? If so, just say that? And "written" is better than "penned".

I've adjusted this, mostly by avoiding side issues.
  • "the children. In 1736"

Perhaps a para break here?

  • "the guardian's characteristics would appear in his ward"

Perhaps be specific here: "; Mercer appears to have been a strong influence on Miller, who demonstrated the same tendency to voice strong opinions."

The source doesn't go quite that far, though it would likely be a fair statement. I've gone as far as I could.
  • "election as a vestryman for Truro Parish and a place, eventually as a colonel, among the officers of the county militia soon followed"

Perhaps "was elected as a vestryman for Truro Parish, and took a position among the officers of the county militia, eventually rising to the rank of colonel".

  • "one of these, perhaps William Waite or James Wren, constructed Gunston Hall"

I find it unlikely that a book built a house. Suggest "one of these, perhaps by William Waite or James Wren, was used as the basis for the design of Gunston Hall" Actually I have a reaction to "perhaps by", is there any evidence that suggests this is true? I suspect there were many similar books available, and without evidence this seems like name dropping.

These were the possible builders. I'm not sure the books had authors per se, I gather they showed plans and such. I've clarified.
  • "As his forebears had, Mason"

"Like his parents, Mason..."

I'm really trying to imply the three George Masons before him. I've deleted it for now, finding no simple way to express it.
  • "from Pennsylvania all operated to defeat the "

"all conspired to defeat" (or something like that, not that I like that word very much)

  • "Despite the importuning of many delegates"

Despite pressure from many of the delegates

Up to Declaration of Rights so far, ping me when you're ready for some more Maury Markowitz (talk) 15:12, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Maury Markowitz, thank you for your kind words and for the review. I've done the above, with a couple of things noted. I tend to write in a formal tone, and sometimes it shows. Whenever you like, happy to deal with some more.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:52, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Mason was elected for Fairfax County, though with great difficulty"

Can you expand on that difficulty? I can imagine a number of definitions of difficulty that might work, even some fun ones.

We don't actually know. This just comes to us from a brief reference in a letter that really doesn't say any more than this, recounting the election results for various people.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:15, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "pass a declaration of rights,[50] Due"

Comma in there should be period, or "due" should be lowered?

  • "after the vote, but was appointed"

Suggest splitting this into two sentences.

I'd rather keep it together. I've eliminated a comma.
  • "Wythe, with Mason eventually resigning"

Maybe split this at the with?

I've recast it instead.
  • "financial affairs; the general"

See no reason not to split these.

  • "federal and state rights. He found Mason "

Who is the "he" in this statement? It does not seem clear. I think Madison, and if that's the case I'd suggest re-arranging this statement.

Recast.
  • "ratification, and his age may"

Add his age in parens as an aid to the reader?

And that's it! This is a really fascinating article. I had never heard of Mason before, but clearly he played an enormous role at the time. His character shines through in the article, which is never easy. And I think you've covered the potentially controversial topics perfectly, notably the diametrically opposed views on slavery written post facto. I'm glad I got to review this, I enjoyed reading it. Maury Markowitz (talk) 22:40, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad you enjoyed it. He is quite a character. Thank you so much, Maury Markowitz for the review. I've done those except as noted.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:03, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And thank you for the support.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:14, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support: I had much to say at the peer review stage, and my concerns were adequately addressed there. I endorse the statement above that this is a fascinating article; it reveals one of the men who were behind the scenes of great events, who get little of the glory but whose contributions are often as significant as those of the lauded giants of history. Brianboulton (talk) 20:13, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your thoughtful counsel there and for your support.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:35, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • File:George_Mason_portrait.jpg needs a US PD tag
  • File:George_Mason_bas-relief_in_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_chamber.jpg is tagged as lacking source info - is the given licensing meant to apply to both the sculpture and the photo? (Also, image description page has been vandalized). Nikkimaria (talk) 14:48, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've corrected the first, but cut the second as it looks like a federally-acquired copyright so it's no good until 2056. Thank you for the review.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:17, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support – another happy peer reviewer. This is a very fine article, and handsomely meets all the FA criteria. Exceedingly pleased to support its promotion. Tim riley talk 17:20, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you indeed for your thoughtful comments and kind words.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:43, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

  • References all consistent. Nothing to complain about. I'd do a spot-check now but it's after midnight here and I need to get some shut-eye for an early start. will check tomorrow if no-one else has in meantime. cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:16, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for that.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:25, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Spot check

Based on this version (in case footnotes are changed):

  • FN 148 checks out. material in article is faithful to source.
  • FN 149 checks out. material in article is faithful to source.
  • FN 150 checks out. material in article is faithful to source.
  • FN 147 - err, what line is the quote? I can't see it.... d'oh! found it now. all good.
  • Henriques (1989) - used 4 times - checks out. material in article is faithful to source - no copyvio found.

All spot checking in order. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:13, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for that. I appreciate it very much.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:45, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Sturmvogel[edit]

  • Commas are necessary after George Mason II and George Mason III.
  • and like his father was county lieutenant Doesn't "like his father" need to be set off by commas?
I don't think it's necessary and it would needlessly slow down the text.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:45, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno, seems like a textbook parenthetical sub-clause to me.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:55, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Which raises the question, what's a county lieutenant?
Piped to the best explanation I could find.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:45, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Consolidate the Pikcunas refs immediately adjacent to each other in the first para of the ancestry section.
  • Mason family account books show that Ann Mason made purchases on her son's behalf appropriate to his age, for example razors and a beaver hat in 1742, in addition to schoolbooks. why is this worth adding to the article?
  • Clarify that this is nonattendance at court.
  • or later on in newly founded delete the "on"
  • Although the company's failed, Mason Unnecessary possessive here, I think.
  • Who is the Thomson Mason in the burgess to rebel section?
  • The link for Bryan Fairfax goes to the wrong dude.
  • Nicely done.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 23:05, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Except as noted, all dealt with. Thank you for the review.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:45, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed one typo and added a link to headright. Supporting now.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:55, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for those.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:28, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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