Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Duriavenator/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 7 January 2022 [1].
Duriavenator[edit]
This is the first FAC about a megalosaurid, one of the few major groups of carnivorous dinosaurs that have not yet been represented at FAC. This particular animal was long thought to be the same as Megalosaurus itself (the first named dinosaur, and historically very important), though was much later recognised as distinct, and that's the gist of the story here. The entire literature has been summarised, and there were some nice free images available. FunkMonk (talk) 22:39, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
- Image review
- File:Megalosaurus display.JPG isn't the display copyrighted?
- The fossils themselves can't be copyrighted, as for the imagery on the wall behind, most of it is from the 19th century, and I think it would fall under de minimis anyway, as they're not the focus of the photo by any means. But this is of course debatable. In any case, only the drawing on the far right is recent enough to be copyrighted, and it is partially cropped out and covered by bones, which again, could indicate de minimis. FunkMonk (talk) 23:19, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
- Other images look OK for licensing
- The "Description" section is quite long. Would it be possible to separate into subsections for increased readability? (t · c) buidhe 23:04, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
- Buidhe ? Gog the Mild (talk) 15:09, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
Support from Cas Liber[edit]
Taking a look now...
Later researchers doubted whether the species belonged in Megalosaurus - I'd write either, "Later researchers questioned/pondered/deliberated/queried whether the species belonged in Megalosaurus" or "Later researchers doubted the species belonged in Megalosaurus" (i.e. doubting is not questioning but naysaying)
If you can, avoid having both paras of lead start with "Duriavenator..."
more later looks pretty good otherwise Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:31, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
- Cas Liber ? Gog the Mild (talk) 22:48, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
HF - support[edit]
Recusing to review. Hog Farm Talk 14:23, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
- I see the infobox gives a range of 169.1-168.7 mya, while the body just says about 168 mya, is the infobox figure false precision?
- "surface of the maxilla adheres to the counterpart slab" - is there a way to link or gloss counterpart slab?
- Linked to Compression fossil, which is not a perfect match, but covers some of the same ground. FunkMonk (talk) 01:41, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
- "Cast of the holotype dentary, showing the long teeth at the front, YM (left) and an isolated tooth, NHM (right)" - this caption is a bit confusing. Does this indication some sort of specimen number? It's not clear what YM and NHM mean here
- What are Mortimer's credentials for the theropod database?
- Mortimer has been at least co-author of some peer-reviewed dinosaur articles, and their database website has also been cited in such articles:[2] I believe it would count as an expert source, per WP:SPS. Furthermore, this information isn't covered in any peer-reviewed papers, which tend to completely ignore unppublished names, so that they are not inadvertently published. FunkMonk (talk) 01:41, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
- Ditto with Tracy L. Ford
- Carrano/Benson/Sampson - any way to make that page range a bit more specific, range given is almost 90 pages
- " Holtz Jr., Thomas R. (2000). "A new phylogeny of the carnivorous dinosaurs". Gaia: 5–61." - any chance for volume/issue numbers here?
- "Holtz Jr., Thomas R. (2012). Dinosaurs: The Most Complete, Up-to-date Encyclopedia for Dinosaur Lovers of All Ages. New York: Random House. p. 92]. ISBN 978-0-375-82419-7." - I can't tell if the bracket after p. 92 is spurious or if there's a missing bracket somewhere else (My childhood copy of the 2007 edition is somewhere in my parents attic, seeing it here makes me want to dig it out when I visit for Christmas)
- Do any of the sources perchance indicate how they estimate length/size? I image they estimated based on a comparison of head size to that of similar, more complete, specimens, but it would be nice if that could get spelled out.
Good work here, I found this one quite interesting. Hog Farm Talk 04:58, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
Comments from LittleLazyLass[edit]
Just reserving a spot here to make sure this doesn't close without me; I'm swamped in exam prep for the next week, but sometime later than the 16th I'll be giving this a look through. LittleLazyLass (Talk | Contributions) 23:56, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
- Hi LittleLazyLass, nudge. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:18, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
Source review — Pass[edit]
- #1: Quarterly Journal of the Geological Society can take a link.
- #2: As can Cassell & Company Limited. I'd also capitalize the "C" in "Company" and the "L" in "Limited". And the name of the chapter being cited can also be added.
- #3: Volume/issue number?
- #4: Zootaxa can take a link.
- #6: And Journal of Systematic Palaeontology. Also, suggest using the "| name-list-style = amp" parameter.
- #7: Is this Palaeontology? If so, it can be linked.
- #8: Friedrich von Huene can take a link. Any other authors that have articles?
- I prefer to avoid linking authors in citations because 99% of the time they're just duplinks of names already mentioned and linked in the main text. Also, it looks odd when citations by the same author is linked multiple times. Is it necessary? If there is no guideline that encourages this, I'd prefer not (it is also very tedious work). Same goes for similar suggestions below. But note I spelled out full names this time, hehe... FunkMonk (talk) 00:32, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
- #9: Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London. Series B, Biological Sciences can be linked. Alick Walker, too.
- #10: What makes this wall of text reliable?
- Here's what I said to HF about this above: Mortimer has been at least co-author of some peer-reviewed dinosaur articles, and their database website has also been cited in such articles:[4] I believe it would count as an expert source, per WP:SPS. Furthermore, this information isn't covered in any peer-reviewed papers, which tend to completely ignore unppublished names, so that they are not inadvertently published. FunkMonk (talk) 00:32, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
- #11: What makes this reliable?
- #12: David B. Norman can take a link.
- #13: Gregory S. Paul and Simon & Schuster.
- #14: University of California Press. Why "Berkeley chapter" instead of "Berkeley" (compare with refs #16 & #30)? Are there subsequent editions, that make the "1st ed." necessary"? Suggest using the "| name-list-style = amp" parameter. Any authors/editors with articles?
- #15: Thomas R. Holtz Jr. And if this is GAIA, it can take a link.
- #16: University of California Press and The Dinosauria can take links. "2 ed." should be "2nd ed." Suggest using the "| name-list-style = amp" parameter. Any authors/editors with articles (besides Holtz Jr., who can be linked again)?
- #17: Journal of the Geological Society and Darren Naish can take links.
- #18: Palaeontology can take a link. What about the authors? Suggest using the "| name-list-style = amp" parameter.
- #19: November 6, 2012, not just 2012. Smithsonian Magazine can take a link. Is the publisher "Smithsonian Magazine", or Smithsonian Institution? Riley Black could, perhaps, stand a red link, although looks like there's some history there.
- #20: Palaeontology can take a link.
- #21: Holtz Jr. can take another link. 12 January 2012, not 2011. What is this thing?
- It's an online appendix to the book that is currently ref 27. It basically has some additional size estimates and other odds and end, should count as self published by a topic expert. I've changed the date and the too specific title (what it was called from where I copied it from). FunkMonk (talk) 00:32, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
- #22: Princeton University Press can take a link, and a location. Gregory S. Paul can take a link. Should be "2nd ed.", not "Second ed." Needs an en dash, not a hyphen.
- #23: ISBN should be hyphenated.
- #24: Acta Palaeontologica Polonica and Octávio Mateus can take links. Suggest using the "| name-list-style = amp" parameter.
- #25: Palaeontologia Electronica can take a link. Suggest using the "| name-list-style = amp" parameter.
- #26: Suggest using the "| name-list-style = amp" parameter.
- #27: Holtz Jr. and Random House can take links.
- #28: Elsevier Science can take a link and location.
- #29: Neues Jahrbuch für Geologie und Paläontologie - Abhandlungen can take a link. Any of the authors, too? Suggest using the "| name-list-style = amp" parameter.
- #30: Suggest using the "| name-list-style = amp" parameter. Can any authors/editors take a link? Should be "2nd ed.", not "2 ed." University of California Press and The Dinosauria can take links.
This version looked at. FunkMonk, one or two (or three dozen) comments above, but they're all minor. The one more significant comment is that a lot of sources are cited without any indication of what the relevant page(s) are. If someone wants to check out source #51, which of the 57 pages should they be looking at? I would normally use pin cites (i.e., separate "References" and "Bibliography" sections, like in The Colossus of Rhodes (Dalí)), but here it make more sense to use the style of cite that looks like "ARTICLE TEXT.[15]:24–26". --Usernameunique (talk) 07:35, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah, that probably comes back to the old discussion about whether journal articles need more specific page ranges, I think there is an upper limit to what should be accepted, and in some of these cases only some of the pages are needed, so I've substantially cut the one you mentioned (I guess you meant #15?) and some others. FunkMonk (talk) 00:32, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
- Usernameunique ? Gog the Mild (talk) 18:22, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
- @Usernameunique: I was wondering if you feel able to pass or fail this source review yet? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:00, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry for the delay, Gog the Mild. Looks good to me. FunkMonk, a delight to see the full names! All those links aren't required, I just tend to think they're good practice. Especially for the author names, I'm not always going to think to look through the rest of the article to see if a particular author has a Wikipedia article. --Usernameunique (talk) 00:19, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
AryKun[edit]
- I have just one very minor comment: Could the gloss explaining that the Bajocian is "a stage in the Middle Jurassic" also be added to the mention in the lead? Otherwise excellent work here. AryKun (talk) 11:53, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
- "there was no reason to divide them" → "thought there was no reason to divide them"?
- Should Walkersaurus be italicized instead of in quotes?
- Maybe link the ? in "Megalosaurus?" (or just the whole name), as people are unlikely to know what the ? means.
- Added (the question mark indicating incertae sedis, uncertain placement). FunkMonk (talk) 18:23, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
- In the first paragraph of upper jaw, what exactly does "process" mean?
- Linked Process (anatomy) and added (outgrowths). FunkMonk (talk) 18:23, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
- That's all I could find after going through this again, besides some small edits not worth mentioning here. This is very well explained, easy to get through even for someone with little knowledge of dinos beside what you pick up in the elementary school stage of being obsessed with them. AryKun (talk) 08:19, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
Comments by Wehwalt[edit]
Support A few comments.
- "heavily plastered" I'm not clear on what this means, unless the Dino was intoxicated.
- "Later examinations by Benson of British fossils earlier assigned to M. bucklandii accepted some these a belonging to the species.[20][5] " Some confusion in this sentence. Also, did you intend to have the refs in reverse numerical order?
- " two preserved as tooth crowns" How is this a preservation? Does this mean someone supplied what they guessed was the proper size casts?
- Changed to "two preserving the tooth crowns, one preserved as a cross-section". The source worded it in a way perhaps too jargony for us. FunkMonk (talk) 21:15, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Wehwalt, I was wondering if you felt in a position to either support or oppose this nomination? Obviously, neither is obligatory. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:50, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:40, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.