Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Cycling at the 2008 Summer Olympics – Women's road race/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 22:58, 9 May 2009 [1].

Cycling at the 2008 Summer Olympics – Women's road race[edit]

Nominator(s): Tone 16:15, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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This article basically follows the standard, set by Cycling at the 2008 Summer Olympics – Men's road race - a FA. The article has passed the GA review and I believe it meets the criteria for a FA now. Thank you for your consideration. Tone 16:15, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Tech. Review
I fixed it by renaming one of them, and renaming all references to that reference. (If you know what I mean...) EdgeNavidad (talk)
Yeah I do ;)--Truco 19:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments -
  • Current ref 11 (Henry Sanderson...) is lacking a publisher.
Fixed. --EdgeNavidad (talk)
  • Please spell out abbreviations in the notes. Yes, they are linked, but you don't want your readers to leave your article, they might never return.
I can't find what this refers to. Should we spell out BBC? The only links that look like abbreviations are AM (ABC Radio) and AOL, but these are the official names. --EdgeNavidad (talk)
I noticed the "OC Press office" publisher. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:41, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Together with all the other links to the official website, I changed the publisher to "The Beijing Organizing Committee for the Games of the XXIX Olympiad", as that is the name the website gives copyright. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 10:53, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Current ref 22 (Mat Mackay...) is lacking a publisher.
Fixed. --EdgeNavidad (talk)
  • Current ref 27 (Staff and agencies...) is lacking a last access date.
Fixed. (it was in the template but without parameter, but I accessed the link and it still worked so I replaced today's date.) --EdgeNavidad (talk)
Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:54, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! --EdgeNavidad (talk) 15:45, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments -

  • "where Nicole Cook proved the strongest." Seems like something that would be found in a post-race news story and not an encyclopedic article.
Changed to "they were together until the sprint, won by Nicole Cooke."--EdgeNavidad (talk)
  • "By winning, Cooke earned the 200th gold medal for Great Britain , as well as the first medal for Britain at the 2008 Olympics." "as well as" → "and". Makes it less wordy.
Changed to "Cooke earned the 200th gold medal for Great Britain and the first medal for Britain at the 2008 Olympics." Even less wordy. --EdgeNavidad (talk)
  • Qualification: Move the full name of the UCI to its first use. That one stopped me cold for a second.
Done.--EdgeNavidad (talk)
  • "which was taken from the countries ranked 17 to 24th in reversed order". Replace 17 with 17th?
Done. Btw: is it "reverse order" or "reversed order"?--EdgeNavidad (talk)
  • "The maximum quota of the event was set 67 cyclists". Add "at" before the number.
Done.--EdgeNavidad (talk)
  • Course: "with the Badaling Pass gaining..." is a noun plus -ing sentence structure. To find out more about this hard-to-spot prose error, including how to fix it, please read this guide.

That's all I have time for now, but I'll take a look at the rest later. 204.210.154.189 (talk) 17:43, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Has already been changed by someone else. --EdgeNavidad (talk)
That's my forgetful friend up there. :-) Giants2008 (17-14) 17:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Here are a few more prose issues I saw later in the article. Most of these are from the race section, where the most work is needed.
  • Cadel Evans could be linked in the third paragraph of Course.
Has been done. --EdgeNavidad (talk)
  • Race: Comma after Natalia Boyarskaya.
Check! --EdgeNavidad (talk)
  • A citation is sorely needed for the criticism of the course's marking.
I added citations, but they do not refer to other occasions where confusion arose. Perhaps this should be removed. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 13:54, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If sources can't be found for it, then it should probably be removed. Can't imagine that no one in the media would have mentioned it, though. Giants2008 (17-14) 03:04, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've limited the text in the article to the Boyarskaya incident, as I didn't see any references that talked about marking more generally. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 00:27, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The chase for Boyarskaya was led by Christine Thorburn, bringing Boyarskaya's lead down to 34 seconds...". To improve the flow of this sentence, try something like, "The chase for Boyarskaya was led by Christine Thorburn, who brought her lead down to 34 seconds...".
Check! --EdgeNavidad (talk)
  • "with 22 km caught Boyarskaya and formed a three rider breakaway." > "caught Boyarskaya with 22 km remaining and formed a three rider breakaway."
Has already been changed. --EdgeNavidad (talk)
  • "With 7 kilometers remaining". This is the only kilometer use fully spelled out, and it doesn't have a miles equivalent. Giants2008 (17-14) 02:21, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Changed! --EdgeNavidad (talk) 13:39, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Question: In qualification, should it be "providing that these athletes qualified" or "provided that these athletes qualified"?

Comments - (I am one of the main contributors to his article, but I think I can still make comments here...)

  • In conditions: "Thunderstorms, resulting in persistently heavy rain and strong winds, resulted in" A different word should be chosen?
    Oops. Fixed. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 22:29, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • In race: "The poor marking of the designated race course led to similar confusion on several other occasions and criticism after the fact." I guess a source should be given for this. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 11:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC) Partly solved, partly addressed in another comment.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 13:54, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]


comment - The full classification of racers would be copyrighted property of the IOC, It either needs slimmed down or a fair use rationale Fasach Nua (talk) 19:51, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How can the results be copyrighted? I seriously doubt this is an issue here. --Tone 20:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
To get this list an olympics games had to be organised, and I would say the organising of this event would not be devoid of all three of skill, labour and judgment. The site referenced gives the claim "Copyright The Beijing Organizing Committee for the Games of the XXIX Olympiad" Fasach Nua (talk) 21:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This still does not convince me. I raised the question at Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems. --Tone 21:42, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
From that discussion, it followed that the results are facts that can not be copyrighted. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 10:53, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

comment - Images should be alternated left and right per WP:MOS#Images Fasach Nua (talk) 19:51, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --Tone 20:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently, the previous form is better according to WP:ACCESS. I am fine with that as well. --Tone 20:38, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

query - The title name is very long and unwieldy, I assume this has come form the wikiproject MOS, but is there not a shorter alternative? Fasach Nua (talk) 19:51, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it's long but this is the standard naming for Olympic articles. See Men's race also. --Tone 20:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My school teacher would often ask if everyone jumped off a bridge would you jump as weel? Fasach Nua (talk) 21:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is not the case, this naming was agreed on in the project. The other possibility of the name would be Women's cycling road race at the 2008 Summer Olympics what is just the same. Any attempt to shorten it would create confusion. --Tone 21:42, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, consistency is key. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:00, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved concerns from Parutakupiu
  • Comments. First of all, thanks for bringing this article to this level. As a member of the Olympics WikiProject, I really appreciate your effort. Nonetheless, here is a rather long list of comments, arranged by section:
    • Lead section:
      • "It took place on 10 August 2008 at the Urban Road Cycling Course; 66 women from 33 countries competed." — the semicolon could be removed and the two parts joined with something like "... featuring 66 women from 33 countries."
      • You have Urban Road Cycling Course linked twice. Unlink the second instance or, even better, remove the first instance completely ("at the Urban Road Cycling Course"), since the venue details are given when the second instance appears.
      • "Cooke earned the 200th gold medal for Great Britain and the first medal for Britain at the 2008 Olympics." — This might shorten it a bit more: "Cooke earned Great Britain's first medal at the 2008 Olympics and 200th gold medal overall.".
      • Don't discriminate nations :P If you wikilink Spain (this could point to Spain at the 2008 Summer Olympics) in the third paragraph, link Sweden and Italy as well, in the second.
      • "... for the event" is unnecessary.
    • Qualification:
      • There is "17–24" and "17th to 24th". It would be good to show some consistency by picking one format.
      • "UCI-standing". Is the hyphen deliberate?
      • Redirect Sung Eun-Go to Gu Sun-Geun. What happened to Hae Ok-Jeong and Thatsani Wichana that, despite qualifying as is stated, do not appear on the results table nor are given as DNF-ers?
        • Is this the same person? As for the other riders, I asked the same question on review, apparently, they only earned their national NOCs free places, not qualified themselves. --Tone 19:09, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yes, it's the same rider. As for the Hae Ok Jeong and Thatsani Wichana, you're right: they gave quota places for their NOCs, which were occupied by a different Korean and Thai cyclist. Still, it would only help specifying that they ended up not competing at the Games. Parutakupiu (talk) 19:39, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Mauritius only sent 12 competitors to Beijing, being this event one of the few they've entered. I think the country's name could be linked to Mauritius at the 2008 Summer Olympics. "South Africa" and "New Zealand" could take this train too.
      • That last paragraph with only two sentences (which can be perfectly merged) looks out of place.
    • Preview - conditions:
      • Here is the first instance of Marianne Vos, but it is only linked in the next sub-section.
      • "... high pollution in China Beijing." — Pollution is a problem per se. Also pollution in other regions of China were not important for this event.
      • I'd shift the temperatures note, between em-dashes, to the end of the sentence. Unlink the temperature units, as per WP:OVERLINK.
    • Preview - pre-race favourites:
      • "...adept at climbing..." — climbing experts?
      • Again, the last paragraph could be merged to the remaining text body.
    • Course:
      • This section is about the course, so there's no need to add the scheduled time here. Shift it to the "Race" section, instead.
      • Badaling appears linked only at the word's second instance.
      • Something wrong with {{convert}} because m=1,150 ft.
      • "The final 350 m (1,100 ft) of the race..." — race is already mentioned at the sentence's end.
        • Interesting to observe, I put 350.0 and now it's working. --Tone 19:09, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yeah, curious bug and even more curious solution... Parutakupiu (talk) 19:39, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • There is a link for Chongwen; Changping is not linked in its first instance.
      • Why is Stuart O'Grady linked and Cadel Evans not?
      • "... request that security restrictions be eased for the time trial to follow, but this plea which was ignored"
    • Race:
      • The text can start with the scheduled time, taken from the "Course" section. Try to merge the first paragraph (less than two lines) with the remaining text.
      • "and subsequent criticism after the fact."
      • "bringing Boyarskaya's the lead". Avoid close repeated names.
      • Paragraphs 3, 4, and 5 can be merged as they describe the race dynamics.
      • Link Tatiana Guderzo; both Cooke and Johansson are linked, anyway.
        • I unlinked the other two instead, they are linked well above. --Tone 19:09, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Okay, but then Marianne Vos should also be unlinked. Parutakupiu (talk) 19:39, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • "...with 22 km (14 mi) caught Boyarskaya and formed a three rider breakaway." — Perhaps this would do better: "... and caught Boyarskaya with 22 km (14 mi) to go, forming a three rider breakaway."
      • "...with 200 m (660 ft) to go. She claimed, claiming the gold medal with a clear margin.
      • "...rainy weather conditions."
      • "...prior to before the race..."
    • Doping incident:
      • This section is filled with short sentences. Try to connect them more, somehow.
        • I'm still not very content with the changes, but I can try and edit it myself, if you'd like.
          • Please, do :-) --Tone 19:09, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Abbreviate "International Cycling Union" to just UCI, already linked before.
      • Do not link words in quotes, as per WP:MOSQUOTE.
    • Final classification:
      • Align to the center the rank numbers on the left table.
        • I can't locate the problem, the parameter in the table says centre... --Tone 19:09, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • General:
      • Not one single time "Beijing" is wikilinked. As host city of the Olympics, I think it deserves it.
      • I guess it might be an Herculean task but... can't stubs be created to red-linked cyclists? At least for those that appear along the prose.
        • Those will appear sooner or later. It's not a FA requirement and I'd prefer users to write decent articles to writing stubby place holders. --Tone 19:09, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • I find mixed formats for dates in references; either YYYY-MM-DD or DAY MONTH YYYY. I guess some consistency should be reached.
  • All in all, it's mostly little things that can be easily fixed. Hope to see this article at the level of (or better than) its "male" counterpart. Cheers. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:28, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. All my comments have been addressed and this article feels to be FA standard. Parutakupiu (talk) 22:23, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    • I left a note in the middle of my comments above; was it missed? The nominator hasn't edited since April 24, which is slightly concerning to me. Giants2008 (17-14) 23:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    I think I've addressed that note of yours now. I don't know why Tone hasn't edited recently, but I'm willing to pitch in and try to address any other issues. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 00:27, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I am extremely busy these days so I don't have almost any time for WP... Thank you for fixing the issue, are there any more concerns that I've missed? --Tone 07:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Only some comments from Fasach Nua that appear solved to me. I contacted him/her some time ago to ask if he/she thinks these comments have been dealt with properly, but have received no answer sofar. I see no other open issues now, but I don't know what the FA-procedure is and how long we should wait for other comments. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 15:42, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Comments

    • There is no source for the fact that the extra Chinese and Austrian spots were given away, and why.
      Added source showing that Chinese and Austrian spots went to South Africa and New Zealand. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 18:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Probably need a citation for "Other riders, such as Katherine Bates (who did not finish), prepared by wearing cooling vests before the race and stocked up on ice packs during it."
      Added source for that. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 18:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not entirely happy with the prose. I've done a ce on some of it, but I think the article needs another pass.
      I've taken another pass through the prose. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 19:25, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think I'd switch the order of "pre-race favorites" and conditions, and I might do away with the subheadings, as each of those sections is pretty short.
      I agree. I've done it. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 18:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I feel like we are missing a few sentences of background. For example, this was the Xth time that the women's race was included. Are there any Olympics-over-Olympics comparisons for number of competitors or distance? How did the distance generally measure up to other women's road race events (longer, shorter, about the same)?
      I've added some of that background. It was 7th time the race was run, it was the longest to date (126 km to 119.7 km), and the number of qualified women was the same as the previous year, though the one dropout affected the actual competitors. I've had trouble finding anything that specifically does a longitudinal analysis, but did compare the distances and competitors from prior races and did cite references for those numbers. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 19:09, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      That is useful background, but some of it only appears in the lead. I've added a new first sentence to the QUalification section to tie it all together a bit better. Karanacs (talk) 14:34, 8 May 2009 (UTC)Karanacs (talk) 15:45, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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