Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Christian metal/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 00:07, 6 February 2008.

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Christian metal

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I'm nominating this article for featured article because I feel it meets the FA criteria: it is stable, extensive, contains in-depth info on the sub-genres, has a neutral point of view, is factually correct, contains 154 reliable sources, and it was recently accepted as a good article. The Peer review did not bring up anything to add to the article. Azure Shrieker (talk) 14:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Nom restarted, old nom. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:59, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Oppose: Of the four featured article criteria, I recommend addressing the following:

1. Basic criteria met?:

1a. Well written? Not bad, but I think it needs a solid once over by a copyeditor, perhaps someone from WP:LOCE. Also, it may help to invite someone unassociated with the article to go through it, or for an involved editor to read it aloud. There a many minor grammatical issues (comma placement, parallelism, subject/verb agreement, poor use of passive voice, etc..) that don't ruin the article, but cause it to fall short of FA quality. Some of the phraseology is odd, and sometimes just wrong. Here are some examples just from the lead:

• ",...was pioneered by United States' Resurrection Band and Sweden's Jerusalem. "
• "In the actual essence of the term, ”Christian metal” is a musical movement, but it has moreover established itself as a cross-genre term."
• "which is contrary to general belief that Christian metal represents..." - maybe try "the general belief"

Also, there are some redundancies, like "For example, All Music Guide defines Christian metal musically as..." - why "musically"? That is presumed. Or here "Musically, Christian metal has all of the heavy metal's trademarks..." Maybe you mean sonically?

Other examples of odd phrasing (some of the bigger ones):

• "It is not sure which one was the first, but..."
• "it is comprised by almost..."
• "...and then began to drag more fans worldwide."
• This sentence needs major grammar attention: "The lyrical approach depends on bands: some emphasize in pointing out the positive aspects of faith matters, others iterate the teachings of Christ, and part of the bands keep their message gentle and covered in metaphors."
• "The album made highest debut..."
• The first few sentences under Origins are very redundant.

This just needs a thorough copyediting.

1b. Comprehensive? Yes

1c. Factually accurate? Very good referencing. However avoid weasel words like "and is cited as" or "was put as". If the statement is true, simple present it as a fact and add the citation (ie. Band X is an early Christian metal band.^[source]). If the statement is an opinion, be specific about who said it and, again, add the citation (ie. XYZ Music Guide said XYZ Band revolutionized Christian metal.^[source]).

1d. Neutral? Yes

1e. Stable? Yes

2. Complies with Manual of style and relevant WikiProjects?:

2a. Concise lead section? Yes

2b. Hierarchical headings? Yes

2c. Well-structured table of contents? Yes

2d. Consistently-formatted inline citations? Really good job here, which contributed to the good NPOV tone of the article. Even still I added a few fact tags for some opinions. Also, I recommend separating the two footnotes into their own section using the {{cref}} / {{cnote}} system. That way, it will alert the reader that those notes contain actual content, and aren't just bibliographic.

3. Properly placed, captioned and/or rationalized images?: They look good. But the music sample for "To Hell with the Devil" needs to be reduced to 10% of the song's length.

4. Appropriate length?: Yes

When these issues are addressed, note the changes here and notify me on my talk page. Thank you for your work so far.— Esprit15d • talk • contribs 19:44, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment I left a copyedit request on the WP:LOCE page. As a major editor of this article, I am incapable of correcting the grammar because English is not my first language. --Azure Shrieker (talk) 21:34, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment As another major contributer, (albeit, mostly small issues now, I used to work on it frequently) I edited the examples stated by Esprit15d. I'm not done yet, but I'm still working on correcting what I can. WP:LOCE can get to it if I do not finish in time. IronCrow (talk) 04:48, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose (per previous nom):

• Poor prose ("Following Heaven's Metal, there were began appearing other less-known fanzines such as White Throne.", "In 1984, California, pastor Bob Beeman saw this problem and soon started the ministry called Sanctuary - The Rock and Roll Refuge.", "Saint was compared to the British heavy metal band Judas Priest mostly due to the Rob Halford sounding style vocals of lead singer Josh Kramer")
• Insufficient summarising (article could be chopped down further: I reiterate that those lists of fanzines add nothing to the article cause aren't even wikilinked: it can be replaced by "there were many fanzines" with the cite providing the list. Eric Wagner's whiny blockquote about being called white metal can be removed.)
• Uncited statements and POV ("However, Barnabas broke a lot of ice for the heavy Christian music scene in terms of sound, appearance, and lyrical content. (actually that entire paragraph is POV)", "Two years later, the band followed up their debut with Last Train, another critical success. The commercial success of Last Train, however, did not live up to its critical acclaim,")
• MoS errors (All Music Guide is unitalicised, references are consistently formatted.)
• Typos, puncuation errors: I see a "Banabas" and "albums The Hand is Quicker Than the Eye (1983) Surrender (1985), and Intense Defense (1988)."
• Questionable references (imperiumi.net is just some guy gushing over Christian metal, Metal for Jesus is some fan's homepage)
• Unsuitable lead (half the lead is denoted to the usage of the terms "white metal" and "christian metal"; that this genre features religious lyrics is mentioned thrice)

The article pretty much needs to be rewritten. Don't bother with just ticking off my points one-by-one, the problems with this article will better be addressed off FAC after a finding better sources, a careful copy-edit etc. indopug (talk) 05:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.