Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Almost There (album)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 3 June 2019 [1].

Almost There (album)[edit]

Nominator(s): Toa Nidhiki05 02:19, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I feel it meets the FAC criteria and represents an interesting and notable topic - one of the best-selling Christian albums of all time with over 3 million copies sold in the United States, notable for spawning "I Can Only Imagine", the best-selling Christian single of all time (also with over 3 million copies sold) with one of the more unusual chart runs in recent memory and the rare feat of having a Hollywood film based off of it.

For those unfamiliar with this album, it was released in 2001 as the first major-label work by the band MercyMe. After six independent albums (released from 1994 to 2000), the band signed with INO records and produced this record. The songs are a mix of new songs as well as songs from their previous indie albums. The album received positive review, and it achieved strong sales after its second single "I Can Only Imagine" became a number-one hit on Christian radio. The album remained on the Christian charts for two years before "I Can Only Imagine" became an unlikely mainstream hit in 2003, leading the album's sales to their peak; the album peaked at number one on the Christian Albums chart in 2003 after over 100 weeks on the chart. The album eventually reached double-platinum status, a feat only a few Christian albums have ever achieved, and ranked as the fourth-best selling Christian album of the 2000s. The album finally reached triple-platinum status in 2018 following the release of a major motion picture based on "I Can Only Imagine" (which became a sleeper hit at the box office), which also resulted in the song having a second number-one run on the Christian charts. To this date, it's the band's best-selling album. Toa Nidhiki05 02:19, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve removed that section for now, although I have seen other FA album articles with similar sections. Toa Nidhiki05 13:57, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No problem; it might be better to leave it in and see what other reviewers say. I don't mind being corrected  :) ——SerialNumber54129 14:18, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support from Lirim.Z
  • The lead needs references
  • Where does it need them? References generally aren’t needed in the lede if the content is cited in the article. Toa Nidhiki05 02:13, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • No need to write IMO Records twice in the lead.
  • The album is a worship and pop rock album The album has been described as a worship and...
  • Almost There was recorded at Ivy Park, The Indigo Room, Paradise Sound, and IBC Studios Where are these studios? US? — Mention the country
  • Not sure. The album liner notes don’t mention. Toa Nidhiki05 02:13, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "I Can Only Imagine" is a ballad,[13][20] opening with just piano "I Can Only Imagine" is a ballad, opening with just a piano
  • chart on March 31 2018 chart on March 31, 2018
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 02:13, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • and a sincerity sure to hold other artists wishing to dive into the genre accountable and a sincerity sure to hold other artists wishing to dive into the genre accountable. (Full stop)
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 02:13, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The structure of this article is quite weird for me; the Release and promotion section only contains content about the Commercial performance of the record and the singles. A promotion section should normally contain information about live performances, special releases etc. I know that singles can be included too, but this section ist way more Commercial performance than promotion. I would personally rename this section to commercial performance.
    Changed it to “Release and commercial performance” since it does cover the release and strategy, if that works. Toa Nidhiki05 18:02, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Billboard needs to in italics, since it's a magazine. use |work= for the refs
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 18:04, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • —Lirim | Talk 20:18, 17 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs: 6, 7, 8, 10, 24, 29 — Millard, Bart; [[Bart Millard|Millard, Bart]]
    Done. Removed overlooks as well. Toa Nidhiki05 00:20, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 35: Replace the hyphen with an en-dash (–)
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 00:20, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 36: |via=Highbeam Research; |url-access=subscription
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 00:20, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 53: This ref should be archived, since the website is unavailable in the European Union. Seems good otherwise.
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 00:20, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 56: remove the unnecessary capitalization MOS:CAPS
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 00:20, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are they maybe any other pictures that could be included?--Lirim | Talk 19:49, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I've added another picture. If you have any time, User:Lirim.Z, I'd really appreciate if you gave it one last look and see if there's anything else left to deal with. Toa Nidhiki05 23:54, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Lirim | Talk 23:55, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Media review

  • File:Mercyme_almostthere.jpg needs a more extensive FUR. Same with MercyMe_House_of_God.ogg. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:50, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I've made what I consider to be substantial improvements to both. Toa Nidhiki05 00:01, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first of these is now fine. However, the FUR for the two clips is now almost identical, which makes it difficult to justify both - one or ideally both of these should be edited to clarify what unique benefit each provides. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:19, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I've tried to elaborate more specifically on House of God (explaining it is used to show the song's style structure) as well as I Can Only Imagine (similar reasons but also the essential nature of the song to the album). I'm firmly in the camp that most articles should have at least two song samples to provide diversity. Toa Nidhiki05 01:16, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I've provided a different explanation for "House Of God". Is it sufficiently different now? Toa Nidhiki05 00:33, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Definitely better, thank you. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:36, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Aoba47
  • The lead’s second paragraph seems pretty sizable, and I am wondering if there is a way to split it into two paragraphs to help with readability. This is not a required part of the review, but I just wanted to let you know as it was one of the first things that I noticed when I opened the article. I am terrible at writing leads though so you could wait for further feedback from other editors/reviewers if you would prefer.
    Good catch. I checked WP:LEDE and the article has enough characters to warrant a third paragraph. I've split critical reception and honors into the second paragraph. Toa Nidhiki05 00:30, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this part (The album has been described as a worship and pop rock album), I would clarify who is describing the album this way. Is critics? The band itself? Kipley? The label? Right now, it is a little too vague. The same part applies to the rest of the sentence. Who is saying that this album “adopts a more radio-friendly sound than the band's independent albums”.
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 00:30, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remember to link the band the first time you mention them in the body of the article (i.e. MercyMe was formed in 1994 by vocalist Bart Millard, guitarist Mike Scheuchzer, and keyboardist Jim Bryson.).
  • I personally do not see the value in having references for the singles’ release dates in the infobox as all of that information should be located and cited in the body of the article.
  • I see what you mean here. I've moved those references into the main body. Toa Nidhiki05 00:30, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this part (In October 1999, the band released their fifth independent album, The Worship Project.), I would use “they” instead of “the band” to avoid repetition with the previous sentence.
  • Something about this sentence (All of the songs of the album were written by Millard or the band except "I Worship You", which was written by Kipley and Reggie Hamm.) reads a little awkwardly to me, probably due to the passive tense in the beginning. Maybe something like: Millard and MercyMe wrote a majority of the songs for the album except "I Worship You", which was written by Kipley and Reggie Hamm.) would be a better alternative? I would also avoid saying “all” when it is not the case as qualified later in the sentence.
  • I would include the year that The Prayer of Jabez was first published.
  • Do you have any further information for this sentence (The band did not want to record the song, but eventually acquiesced.), specifically why they did not want the song and why they eventually agreed to do it? It seems like their first instincts were correct given that it was not commercially successful.
  • At least from that source, there's no actual indication of why. It is implied from the writer of that piece that they didn't want to write it because it was a cash grab ("The band wrote the song at the urging of their record label, in an attempt to cash in on the popularity of Bruce Wilkinson’s best-selling book “The Prayer of Jabez.”), but all Millard did was say that they did repeatedly refused to do it, eventually caved and did it, and hated the result. Toa Nidhiki05 00:30, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this part (Salvo mixed all the songs on the album at Cool Springs Studio with the exception of "In You”), I would use “a majority of the songs” rather than “all” to avoid misleading the reader until the second half of the sentence.
  • For this part (Similarities were noted between the "guitar nuances" of Scheuchzer and U2's guitarist The Edge.), clarify who noted these similarities.
  • For this part (The album's first song, "I Worship You" was described as "falling somewhere between adult contemporary and rock", and utilizes acoustic guitars and synthesizers.), clarify who described the song this way.
  • For this sentence ("How Great Is Your Love" was announced as the album's third single in an interview with Billboard magazine on February 12, 2002.), link Billboard.
  • The Bless Me Indeed (Jabez's Song) article includes an interview where Millard said it was “one of the worst songs we’ve ever done”. Would that be helpful in this article?
  • I think this is already included in the article as source 11. Toa Nidhiki05 00:30, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise, you have done excellent work with the article as a whole. Once my comments are addressed, I will read through the article again and most likely support this for promotion. Have a great rest of your weekend! Aoba47 (talk) 02:23, 28 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wonderful work! I support this for promotion. Aoba47 (talk) 04:09, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator notes[edit]

@Toa Nidhiki05: Solid progress here but this will need to be archived shortly if it doesn't attract some more review and support for promotion. Just a heads-up in case you want to try to ping some reviewers. --Laser brain (talk) 12:24, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks User:Laser brain, gonna ping some Wikiprojects. Do you know any other good places to look? This is so close imo and I’d hate to have to wait and go through this again. Toa Nidhiki05 13:03, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from BLZ[edit]

I saw the notice up at WikiProject Albums. At first blush, this looks reasonably close to FA status. I'm going to make direct copyedits to the article; if you disagree with any of my changes or believe I've misinterpreted something, please feel free to bring them up here and we can decide what's best. I'll bring up more substantive comments here. —BLZ · talk 19:36, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good, thanks in advance for giving this a look! Toa Nidhiki05 19:37, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No problem! I've also just realized, to my surprise, I'm actually familiar with this band's music. I remember "I Can Only Imagine", which I probably heard via friends at some point in my childhood. I live in California now, but I spent most of my childhood in the South. —BLZ · talk 20:39, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it’s their biggest hit by far (which is saying something - they’ve had like 15 #1 Christian singles since as well as a handful of other mainstream hits). It was kind of all of the place on AC radio in 2003, especially in the south - started in Dallas and then spread out to Atlanta and other big cities there. One of the strangest hit singles ever imo given how religious it is. They actually just made a movie about the song last year that brought it back into the mainstream again (top 10 on the overall Billboard digital songs chart), so it’s had like three distinct chart runs which is just insane. Toa Nidhiki05 21:58, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Lead
  • "the first major-label studio album" — I'm a little confused about the "major" and "independent" terminology used throughout. The six albums prior to Almost There are labeled "independent"—which implies that they were signed to an independent record label—while Almost There is labeled a "major-label" release. But in fact, the band was not signed to any label prior to Almost There, and their first six albums seem to have been self-distributed. While in some sense they could be considered "independent" (i.e. not under contract to any label), musicians on this tier of record distribution are usually described as "unsigned" rather than "independent".
Meanwhile, INO Records does not seem to have been a major label or a subsidiary thereof when the album was released. "Major label" is a term of art in the music industry. It refers to one of a handful of major, international conglomerates (see Record_label#Major_labels). In 2001, the majors were Warner, EMI, Universal, BMG, and Sony Music—plus any of their respective subsidiaries. INO Records redirects to Fair Trade Services, which is the label's current name; that article says the label (under its new name) is currently distributed by Sony Music—making it a subsidiary of a major label as of this moment. But prior to 2011, it looks like records on INO were distributed by Integrity Music, which was not owned by one of the majors.
The term "major label" only appears in the lead section, not in the body. One of the sources (an audio interview from a deluxe edition of the album) is used to say that the producer said Almost There was "his first major project"—although that's not a direct quote, and the interviewee is not the producer himself. Either way, presuming the word "major" was used in the interview, it seems like the word was used in a general sense (as a synonym for "significant"), not in its industry-specific meaning ("distributed by one of a handful of conglomerates"). Unless I'm missing something, I think what's happened here is that the description of the album as a "major project", and the fact that the band was signed to any label for the very first time, is being conflated with "a major-label album".
Am I missing something? To be clear, I think you're making a useful distinction between the band's early, unsigned career and their career after being signed. It's conceptually similar to the distinction between a "mixtape" and an official "album". Based on what I've seen so far, I would probably refer to the earlier albums as "self-distributed" for clarity, and I would remove the "major label" description. —BLZ · talk 20:39, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No, everything you said makes sense. I was trying to distinguish between the albums they made unsigned in a garage (which have been referred to as independent, but unsigned is just as accurate) with the ones they’ve made since. Their first six albums were indeed self-produced and distributed. INO did collaborate with major records. That absolutely makes since. It seems the context of “independent” that has been referenced by articles is that the music was made independent of the Christian industry, not that they were signed to an independent record label. Christian music is kind of its own little world so it makes sense the terms might not translate entirely accurately. Thanks for clearing this up.
So yeah, I’ll go ahead and make those two changes (removing “major” and referring to them as unsigned). This should probably be done on the I Can Only Imagine (MercyMe song), The Worship Project, and MercyMe discography articles as well, but that’s a separate deal I’ll handle.
EDIT: Made the changes. I’ve used the terms “unsigned” and “self-released” to avoid overusing the same term (sometimes “independent” was used multiple times in the same sentence, and “unsigned” didn’t feel as good to overused imo). Toa Nidhiki05 21:58, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hey User:Brandt Luke Zorn, not sure if you were on holiday the last few days but figured I'd ping you to let you know I made this change. Feel free to respond at your own pace, just wanted to remind if you didn't already notice! Toa Nidhiki05 23:57, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment - Unfortunately, this has been open for quite a long time and just doesn't have the attention to get over the finish line. Therefore, I will be archiving it shortly and it may be re-nominated after the customary two-week waiting period. In the mean time, please action feedback as appropriate and perhaps work with BLZ to see if their concerns were met. --Laser brain (talk) 11:34, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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