This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Name of Massachusetts
Thanks. Why be shy? Do you know how to set up a footnote? The good people aren't going to be interested in much linguistic detail in the article above, but if you put a summary in a footnote those interested will love it. I don't have any monopoly on it, I just don't want to see it massacred. Often unfortunately but on the whole well-policied Wikipedia requires a source. I bet you could find one! Or, if you wanted to get more detailed you could do an article on just the name: Massachusetts (name). In fact now that I think about it you could do a brief history of the Massachusett Indians. I believe they all died in Mattapan (that evil place) of the smallpox, but not at the location of the current Mattapan. In fact just to go further, you could go through giving etymologies of the most known geographic entities bearing Indian names; that is, most of the names in the states. That will help to bear in on us that other peoples resided here and other languages were spoken here, and those are part of our heritage. It's up to us to claim it. Anyway regardless of what you decide you can do, thanks for the support.Dave 02:37, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Better map (hopefully)
Hi. I finally got around to trying to make a new Anishinaabemowin map, representing the distribution of speakers in the present day -- mostly based on the map provided in the Freeland Ojibwe Dictionary resources. It's on Wikimedia commons right now; I wanted to check with you first to make sure it's fairly accurate and useful. I wish the black border lines around the distribution of speakers wasn't so thick and jagged, but there's not much I think I can do about that. Let me know what your thoughts are, --Miskwito 00:33, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Generally looks good. However, due to the large number of population as metropolitan speakers, there should be small dots representing them about Bismarck (ND), Minneapolis-St. Paul (MN), Madison (WI), Stevens Point (WI), Kansas City (KS/MO), St. Louis (MO) and Ottawa (ON). Milwaukee (WI) and Chicago (IL) should be kept distinct. All other metro areas and all non-metro are already covered in the shaded areas. Miigwech!! CJLippert 01:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh, one more area. The Match-E-Be-Nash-She-Wish Band of Potawatomi extends down from MI into NW IN but not as far NW as Gary. CJLippert 01:36, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I like the map but I'm afraid someone from another part of the world might see it and interpret that Anishinaabemowin is spoken throughout the red area when in reality, it is only spoken in small pockets. Furthermore, even some of those small pockets have very small percentages of fluent speakers--some reservations you could count them on one hand. CJ makes good points about the cities. Winnipeg and Thunder Bay should be especially noted. I think he may be a bit optimistic about Anishinaabemowin here in Madison, though. I can pretty safely that Prof. Valentine is the only fluent speaker in Madison though several of his students (myself included) hang around at various levels of beginner Ojibwe.
Leo1410 03:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Okay, thanks to both of you for the comments. I'll try to fix it up tomorrow. I had the same concern as you, Leo, about people misinterpreting the map as suggesting that the language is spoken throughout the marked area, but I don't know that there's any real good solution (short, perhaps, of marking each individual community with a fair number of speakers with a dot or something, which I probably don't have the patience for...). The only other thing I can think of is just making a note in the caption to the picture that Anishinaabemowin is only spoken in isolated pockets, rather than all over the entire region. Again, miigwech for the comments --Miskwito 04:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Maybe the solution is to have two levels of shading: translucent and opaque. The translucent or a tint would indicate where the likelihood of a speaker would be and that would be the large colored area you have, while opaque or solid area would be a definite communities. If so, the maps at Languagegeek.com is good for Canada for reserve communities but for off-reserve communities, Leo is right to point out Winnipeg and Thunder Bay. Others Canadian cities for worth noting would be Red Deer (AB), Calgary (AB), Swift Current (SK), Saskatoon (SK), Moose Jaw (SK), Regina (SK), Estevan (SK), Brandon (MB), Portage la Prairie (MB), Sault Ste. Marie (ON), the entire Manitoulin Island, Sudbury (ON), North Bay (ON), Toronto (ON), Newmarket (ON), Barrie (ON), Hamilton (ON), Kitchener (ON), London (ON), Sarnia (ON), Windsor (ON), Kincardine (ON), Port Elgin (ON) and Kingston (ON), while in the US, each of the Reservations, off-reservation communities, and cities such as Great Falls (MT), Shelby (MT), Havre (MT), Wililston (ND), Minot (ND), Rugby (ND), Bottineau (ND), Grafton (ND), Fargo (ND), International Falls (MN), Bemidji (MN), Crookston (MN), Detroit Lakes (MN), Little Falls (MN), Cambridge (MN), Aitkin (MN), McGregor (MN), Virginia (MN), Grand Rapids (MN), Duluth (MN)-Superior (WI), Brainerd (MN), St. Cloud (MN), Thief River Falls (MN), Warroad (MN), Ashland (WI), Hayward (WI), Ladysmith (WI), Eau Claire (WI), Wausaw (WI), Barron (WI), Rice Lake (WI), Reinlander (WI), Hurley (WI), Houghton (MI), Marquette (MI), Eshpiming (MI), Manistique (MI), Munising (MI), Sault Ste Marie (MI), St. Ignace (MI), Cheboygan (MI), Petoskey (MI), Charlevoix (MI), Traverse City (MI), Manistee (MI), Ludington (MI), Bay City (MI), Saginaw (MI), Flint (MI), Kalamazoo (MI), Lansing, (MI), Dowagiac (MI), South Bend (IN), Topeka (KS), and Lawrence (KS). Of all these places mentioned, the major urban centres for speakers are difinitely without a question the following: Winnipeg (MB), Thunder Bay (ON), North Bay (ON), Barrie (ON), Bemidji (MN), Duluth (MN), Minneapolis-St. Paul (MN), Eau Claire (WI), Milwaukee (WI), Marquette (MI), Sault Ste. Marie (MI), and Saginaw (MI). So, maybe these areas and the Reserves/Reservations should be big dots, off-reservation communities and the other locations mentioned be small dots, and all other shade-area be a tint? CJLippert 15:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
How about this one (see Image:Anishinaabewaki.jpg). It is of all the Anishinaabe Reservations and Reserves in North America. Cities with Anishinaabe influences are also shown. If some form of Anishinaabemowin is spoken, a diffused ring extending 75 miles from the community is shown. Reserves, Reservations and Cities that don't have that kind of influence is shown without such diffusion rings, but is shown. Non-subject not shown. If I'd shown only the Reservation/Reserves, some are so small that they wouldn't have been visible. Feedback appreciated. CJLippert 22:05, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Why do you think there is no place for Croatian theory of Croatan tribe origin. It's just a legitimate theory and I don't see what is the problem with it?
VelikiMeshtar 13:08, 26 Janury 2007 (UTC)
Professor Lyle Campbell
Hello, i am currently a student of professor campbell's, which is why i have been editing the information on his page, namely putting up a picture, this picture is not a copyrighted work and is safe to publish, it is prof. campbell's page, which he has control over and this picture is free-use. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cragun00 (talk • contribs) 20:46, 2 February 2007 (UTC).
I have written, and am waiting for a response from, U of U for the information on the copyright held on the photo, as well as information about lyle's claim to the image, will forward to you as soon as I get it.
Remember, getting permission to "use the image on Wikipedia" is not good enough. It has to be released via GFDL, public domain, etc etc. --Ling.Nut 21:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Miami-Illinois
Hiya Miskwito,
Thanks for your messages! I put a comment on the "Lyle Campbell" thread above, too....
I know of a professor who is Miami. I suppose I could discretely ask a question or two, but I don't actually know this professor personally, so my welcome mat could be a little small (don't know; on the other hand, the prof may be eager to talk etc.) SO if you do have any q's you want to pass on, we'll discuss. Later, --Ling.Nut 21:14, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't responding to any comments about Miami-Illinois. I looked at your contribs to see what you were working on... to see if I could chip in any help ;-) --Ling.Nut 22:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
she's just a member of the Miami tribe, and not a linguist... but knows the guy behind the language revival push --Ling.Nut 01:26, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Re: Etymology of "Texas"
Thanks for your message. I learned of the actual Caddo word through personal correspondence with Wallace Chafe at the University of California, a linguist who did some field work with the Caddos. I'm not sure how you would reference that, but here's what he told me:
"The Caddo word táysha? means 'friend'. They apparently used this word for those in the larger Caddo group, kind of like 'allies', as opposed to enemies like the Osages. The Spanish wrote it as texa. (They used x for the sh sound.) Then the Spanish added the plural -s, and referred to the Texas Indians. The rest is history."
Hope this helps! –Benjamin 17:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Etymology of Kentucky
I respectfully disagree with your decision to remove several past spellings and possible etymologies of Kentucky, all of which were documented in respectable print sources, without at least some discussion on the article's talk page. I have reverted those edits, and am requesting that you justify these changes on the article's talk page. Should there be consensus there, I will abide by it. Acdixon 14:40, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your polite and clear response. I think I understand where our disconnect came. I've explained in detail on the talk page. Acdixon 17:59, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Rules
With ref to your comment in response to my AfD comment, my reference to WP:IAR which is in fact a wikipedia policy. It states If the rules prevent you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore them.--Golden Wattle talk 23:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I've done a lot of work on the Niggardly article and made a couple of comments at the deletion debate since you commented there. Please take another look and reconsider your opinion. It's essentially a much different article. I'm not yet completely satisfied with it, and if you want to make any contributions I'd welcome it, but if you could just take another look I think you'll be pleased. Noroton 23:46, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Good work, Noroton. Based on the changes you made, I've changed my vote to keep. Take care, --Miskwito 00:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
The source is Ojibwā Texts. I can't recall the page number. It may be cited on the web page, but it's on my old hard drive. Perhaps it's cached on archive.org. --Scottandrewhutchins 11:29, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
WikiThanks Thank you so much for supporting the nom for FL. I really appreciate it.--Ed¿Cómo estás? 00:58, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Comparison chart development
I have added a commented-out chart at Ojibwe_phonology#Historical_phonology. Please review, and maybe reword and add and uncomment-out. Due to the chart being pulled in from the Cree language, the examples in the Anishinaabemowin isn't as startling as that of Cree. However, variations do exist, and the word choices don't seem to adequately reflect those variations. They should ideally include the z/z-Oji-cree (as in bizaan ᐱᓵᐣ and ninzid ᓂᐣᓯᐟ), z/dh-Oji-cree (as in bizaan ᐱᓵᐣ and nindhid ᓂᐣᑎᐦᐟ), n/n-Ojibwe without syncope (as in inini and ningodwaaswi), n/0-Ojibwe without syncope (as in inini and ingodwaaswi), n/0-Ojibwe with syncope (as in nini and ngodwaaso), n/n-Algonquin (as in inini and anami'e), n/y-Algonquin (as in inini and ayami'e), as well as with the difference between the northern Potawatomi and southern Potawatomi... or maybe have such a chart in each of Algonquin language, Ojibwe language, Anishinini language and Potawatomi language pages and one pulling all these and the one on the Cree page together into a single comparison chart in the Algonquian languages page.
p.s. When I find the example matrials for the Oji-cree and Potawatomi, I will provide examples here. CJLippert 16:39, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
p.p.s. I found my notes on Oji-cree and it wasn't a n↔dh variation but rather a z/s↔dh/th variation. In addition probably the z/s↔zh/sh variation of both Oji-cree and Plains Ojibwe should have examples as well. CJLippert 03:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Trankswiki:Two-Spirit "terms"
The article over at Wiktionary is a mess. The whole article was copied over, not "just" the "terms" section. I certainly hope you clean up the article (removing the text that's already on Wikipedia) and point the links on the page back to Wikipedia (there are a lot of red links now). -- WiccaIrish 19:41, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
FYI: m- prefix in Anishinaabemowin
Just as an FYI, the n- is (n1), g- is (n2) and w- is (n3), but m- seems to be (nX). It appears in words such as midaas, maame, mikana, magoodaas, etc. It really hasn't well studied. Maybe you can do a linguistic study, write about it in detail, and get either your M.A. or Ph.D. with it. I don't remember whom, but someone have done a study on the Menomini language and its m- prefix use. CJLippert 00:44, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Wonscoteonach
I am no expert about Indian languages. I have seen a few different versions of this word. I double-checked the book which I cited and the reference is in an annotation to the diary so I am not sure whether Mrs. Simcoe actually used the word. It turns out that I misread the book. The quote is actually "back burnt grounds" although I have seen "black burnt lands" mentioned in other sources. I reported on this topic in a blog I write about the Don. Here is the link Don Watcher. I referred to another blog called the Missing Plaque Project who wrote about the Wonscotonach River. This article refers to it as a Mississauga Indian word. The Mississaugas were Ojibwa. Therefore my assumption is that it is an Anisnawbe word. Atrian 01:38, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
On 3rr
No, it was a 3rr violation. Here are the reverts. [1][2][3][4] Usually we administrators also give warnings before any 3rr block, but if you look at the history of the Spanish language page you'll see that this user has been coming back on and off on different IPs for some time now adding this without regard to discussion on the talk page.--Jersey Devil 02:03, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
crude table of Algonquian languages
I was thinking, often there seems to be a blurb on how the Algonquian languages are often divided by non-Natives into smaller groups and the languages are more like series of dialectual chains. I've threw together this table of Cree- and Ojibwe-groups of languages. How would this look if other Algonquian languages were added to this table? Do you know of any works that maps out the languages in relationship to each other and not as separate banches (often shown in "tree" formation)?
Well, both Mithun (1999) and Campbell (1997) have language maps, based, I believe, on those in the Smithsonian's HNAI. However, they generally show the locations of languages at the earliest time their speakers had contact with Europeans (rather than, say, the present location). And since those were the sources I used to draw that first Ojibwe map a year or two ago, I'm not sure if they're entirely accurate. --Miskwito 23:47, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Tamil Languages Please Consider the following references
Tamil has been declared a Classical language by the Indian government. This has been done after an extensive research and a political process. See:
This article assumes some basic Tamil background knowledge from the reader. Continuous literary tradition is well established. Please do some background reading about Tamil literature and, one can understand that statement. The above web site would be of value in that regards.
Boozhoo! As an aid to my learning, I was hoping you could maybe parse "enaabadizid" for me. I see the vai verb "aabidizi" glossed "be used" in Nichols/Nyholm, but I'm not clear on how the affixes turn it into "user". Miigwech! Chimakwa 19:37, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, that helped a lot! I just got Freelang tonight; I don't know why I waited so long to install it.Chimakwa 01:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Does the original translation carry the exact co-ordinates of the place like that? I know it's a complex language but to convey a 12-digit map reference in eight words seems to be rather too complex! I would suggest putting the map reference (which I guess is for Inger) into a footnote maybe? Vizjim 06:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank You very much the time and work
You sacrified to the topic and article I initiated.
Sorry for my answering so unmatured,
I hope I shall achieve more knowledge about the topic in future.
But I think I made no capital mistakes.
Hey Miskwito, talking a look now. --Yksin 18:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Update: I've got some comments to make but no time to make them now -- will get to it later this afternoon. Best. --Yksin 19:55, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Update 2: my very lengthy comments can now be found on Talk:Eskimo shamanism. --Yksin 00:09, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Minneapolis
Hello. Does Minneapolis, Minnesota look all right to you? Please pardon this form letter that is going to about a dozen people whose user name I recognize from some Wikipedia edit (could have been recent or in the past year). I expect to close peer review by nominating Minneapolis to featured article candidate in a day or two unless other editors have more work they'd like to do. In case the links help, places to make a difference are to edit in place, comment in the peer review, comment on the talk page, support or oppose when and if it gets to featured article candidate, or work on a child article linked from the following template. -Susanlesch 23:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Algonquian? No, you weren't supposed to give me anything Algonquian. You were supposed hand over all your bank account numbers, ATM passwords, etc etc etc. :-)
Seriously, I sorta half had an idea for writing a term paper on an Algonquian-related topic, but it didn't work out... so anything I may have asked for at the time is no longer needed...
Hi Miskwito. I don't mind your editing, but please, next time, try leaving a notice (short explanation) on the Talk section, ok?
I agree there should be something saying that the hypothesis is not widely accepted, but the sentence you've written is not an improvement: "The relationship among these languages and the existence of a Dene-Caucasian family is disputed or rejected by most linguists." You know, it might well be true, but you didn't add any citation: what is the ratio between the proponents and those who reject the hypothesis? Which survey says that? NPOV is a double-edged sword.
As someone else has suggested, it could be, for instance, "the existence of a Dene-Caucasian family is a matter of dispute among linguists." which I consider a much better solution. Moreover, the glossary has not been linked to the main article yet, for which I'm planning a section devoted to the controversies.
By the way, if you had looked at the references, you would have seen a few anti-DC citations. ;) Take care! --Pet'usek [petr dot hrubis at gmail dot com] 19:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Dear Miskwito
For your hard work and your endless dedication, you've more than earned this! Keep it up! ;)
Dear Miskwito, I'm truly, utterly sorry for the belated reply. All I can say is, I'm terribly backlogged, and time is at a premium for me these days! :( Sometimes I wish days had 48 hours instead of 24...
Anyway, at last I made it to you talk page, and I've wanted to visit you in person for many days now. I had a deep look at the Project's status even before you sent me your kind words, and I was very impressed and delighted at your hard work, so your message came to me as a delightful surprise. You're right, migrating the comments and keeping the articles organized is a tremendous task, as I know all too well. I browsed through your contributions briefly, and my admiration at the quality of your work and your enthusiasm grows deeper and deeper. So, I'll just tell you, keep it up! :) I'm sure we'll see a lot of each other pretty often!
Here's a small token of my appreciation for your dedication. It's well-deserved. I'll see you later, dear M ;) Hugs, Phaedriel - 07:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
R U O K ?
Just concerned, here. You contribute very positively to the project, and now seem a bit jarred. Don't let short-term frustrations bog you down on your longer term vision. Take a little break. Catch some rays. CJLippert 23:24, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I wasn't aware that I seemed "jarred"... :\ What am I doing that's giving you the impression that I'm not okay? --Miskwito 23:46, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Beginning about 6 weeks ago, your edit comments have been either without confidence or very aggressive; the quality of your contribution, though seemed to not suffer. Then comes the comments from Petusek above on PDC Glossary (which seems to speak of un-characteristic sloppiness on your part... you are usually very, very exact; much more than what I ever am). You then shared with the world about yourself on your Userpage.... One thing alone probably wouldn't have raised concerns, but all those then highlighted by your Userpage addition does. As said before, I really enjoy your very positive contribution to the whole Wikipedia project, so these snippets over past 6 weeks makes me a bit concerned. CJLippert 01:51, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Rest did you good!!! Welcome back!!! CJLippert 15:50, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Miigwech, niijii. It's good to be back! --Miskwito 19:51, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Was doing some crudulous mass-spamming of talk pages and noticed that the Menominee article's talk page includes questions about the meaning of their ethnonym... up ypr alley? Later! Ling.Nut 21:27, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi there - I see you've been making some improvements to the Comparative method article, which was my pet project for a few weeks sometime last summer, before I went on holiday, and forgot about it, and drifted away... Anyhow, with all the random enthusiasm of a student who will soon have 8 weeks and no work to do, I'm prepared to have another crack at bringing it up to FA standard. It looks like you've made some really quite significant improvements from where I left it, though I won't have time to look through it in detail 'til sometime next week. One slightly disjointed though I have had is about whether it would be worth a section on comparative poetics, or whether this would belong elsewhere (or whether anything I wrote on the topic would be too IE biased, though I'd be prepared to give it a go). Anyway, let me know if you're interested. I guess we should probably discuss this on the talk page. Cheers, sjcollier 00:52, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
To Miskwito, on the occasion of Minneapolis, Minnesota reaching featured article. Best wishes. -Susanlesch 20:56, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Thank you! :)
Thank you for your beautiful words and warm wishes on my birthday, dear friend! I took a well-deserved one-day wikibreak and spent it with my family and my friends... and actually had a beer after months of forced abstinence! :) Of course, there's no way I'd forget about you, so I saved a great, tasty piece of chocolate cake just for you - but sorry, no beer left! Again, thank you so much for taking the time to wish me well, and have a wonderful day, dear Miskwito! Love, Phaedriel - 07:26, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
It's so wonderful to see your friendly virtual face again, my friend! :) Perhaps seeing you work on our beloved project is the kick-you-know-where I needed to get to it myself, so see you there - and thank you again! :) xxx, Sharon
17:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
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