User talk:Oakshade/Archive 3

Please participate

There is a heavy discussion right now, in this article, Miss Pakistan World here and it was nominated for deletion here; your opinion will be highly appreciated, especially your vote. Your participation in this matter is noteworthy, in view of the fact that you have participated in this discussion [1]. It doesn’t matter if your vote is favorable or not, but what matters most is your involvement since it seems to me that some commenter are against pageantry. Personally, I think that the article should be kept but should be freed from tremendous advertisement lines.--Richie Campbell (talk) 00:20, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Reunion place names

Hey! No worries about letting these AfDs play out if that's how editors want to handle it. Thanks for bringing this up. Gwen Gale (talk) 18:57, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Noah Kalina

That may be, but moving by copy and paste, as you did, is not proper - it destroys the page history. In order to move Everyday (video) back to Noah Kalina, an admin will have to do it.--Cúchullain ^t/c 20:31, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter who moved it in the first place, or why - moving it back requires admin powers (because deletion and undeletion is involved). That's the only way to preserve the page history. If you want it moved back to Noah Kalina you should go to requested moves.--Cúchullain ^t/c 20:37, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the International Travels box. Cheers ChiragPatnaik (talk) 11:16, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Because a job well done is deserving of praise...

Hello! I wanted to let you know that I withdrew my AfD nomination for 1100 Grand Concourse. I also wanted to take the opportunity to show my appreciation of your effort to save the article from deletion. Please accept this as a token of my admiration for your contribution to the AfD process:

		The Rescue from Deletion Barnstar
		For your thoughtful and intelligent contributions to saving the article 1100 Grand Concourse from erasure in the AfD forums. Job well done! Ecoleetage (talk) 21:30, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Keep up the excellent work! Ecoleetage (talk) 21:30, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Bank Street

Your comments regarding keeping this article make sense. There isnt any reason for deletion. Note that the original user calling for the deletion (Beeblbrox) is aligned with Orladys argument re: attributing edits to a banned user for deletion. Neither user can give legitimate reason for the deletion based on content because they are wrong. So, [enter] > Orlady . . who illustrates a pattern of deleting perfectly valid, legitimate information after attributing the changes to one master banned user. Thanks. (just to state it for the record, I am not linked to this banned person in any way.)--StAuNcH ChArAcTeR (talk) 20:14, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

John Edwards

Wanted to personally apologize to you for my snarky remarks on the talk page. They were unnecessary particularly for a productive editor such as yourself. You didn't deserve that kind of behavior and I'm sorry. ∴ Therefore | cogito·sum 00:51, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on John Edwards. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution.

Please note that there is an exception to the 3RR:

Addition of libelous, biased, unsourced, or poorly sourced controversial material which breaches Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons.

I will continue to exercise my option. You really should consider to attempt to gain page consensus. ∴ Therefore | cogito·sum 04:50, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

You're 3RR "BLP exception" rule only applies when an actual BLP violation is occurring, which was not in this case. As you've put so much effort into removing allegations of this scandal and now consensus to include it is proven, please don't revert again. --Oakshade (talk) 02:05, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

RfC

I understand completely that the RfC is for community input, and I welcome that. But you presented one "side" of the argument and I presented my view of the other side. I don't intend to comment on other people's comments or anything like that and assumed you wouldn't either - but my experience with RfCs is that we can't expect editors to necessarily read the whole back and forth on the talk page. So I gave a short summary of the way I see it. Tvoz/talk 08:32, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Roll easy... creep awhile...

Things over at Talk:John Edwards got fairly heated, so it's not surprising to see a few tempers flare. Comments like this are inappropriate on an article talk page (especially one that just had a heated debate). They are unproductive and only serve to escalate an already unstable situation. Should you really want to discuss that sort of concern, it's appropriate on a user talk page. Don't chalk this up to retaliation because we don't see things eye to eye (I got onto people (who shared m viewpoint) in public when they tried to bait you in the same way). Regardless of our divergent viewpoints during the debate, I'm sure that your primary intent is to improve the encyclopedia, and I'm glad to have good editors (no matter if we agree or not). I just think it's more productive to stay focused.  ;-) Cheers! /Blaxthos ( t / c ) 21:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Please be considerate

I made the subject boxs collapsible, not to hide them, but instead to allow otehrs to read the past discussions if they aren't familiar with the back and forth, and then close them to continue discussion. I would appreciate it if you would respect that intent, and leave them be.

As well, your edit to Dumbledore's Army, Luna Lovegood and Neville Longbottom, attempting to undo the merge using the very same methods which you are crying foul about is exceedingly poor form. If you feel the merger was done inappropriately, you should express your opinion in the same discussion you have already contributed to in the wikiproject. Reverting them, after the merge has already been performed is disruptive, and could be seen as edit-warring. I don't want to believe you are doing that, considering the quality of many of your other edits, but it is beginning to sound like sour grapes. Please use the discussion forum of the wikiproject to voice your concerns and argue to an undoing of the merge. This other way will only serve to reflect negatively upon you, and I don't want that to happen. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:55, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Performing major merges when there is No Consensus to do so is what is poor form. Accusing someone of having "sour grapes" on their talk page is also poor form. I won't preform 3RR as I hope you won't. --Oakshade (talk) 23:01, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I would also note that falsely accusing me of WP:FORUMSHOP in the DRV talk page is also bad form and borderline WP:STALKING. --Oakshade (talk) 23:08, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

To begin with, I happen to watchlist that page (the recent deletions of certain images have made that necessary), so maybe you might want to take a deep breath, a step back and do some serious rethinking before you reply. I am being polite, and if you wish to recevie a response from me in the future, you might wish to follow that example.

I submit that you are taking this all a little too personally. The very fact that you are considering 3RR an electric fence to avoid suggests to me that you are missing the point of 3RR; its to keep people talking in discussion, not trying to force a view that clearly isn't being accepted via edit summary. I am not going to violate 3RR,a nd I hope you don;t, either, as I would report you for it. You are coming dangerously close to it, and I would caution you to rethink your strategy there.

If you feel the consensus was not in favor of merging, you have a venue for expressing that: the HP wikiproject. Expressing it via revert or asking the other parent (ie forum-shopping at a place where you are experienced enough to know is the wrong venue for redress) is only going to foster some fairly negative opinions about you (trust me, I've been where you are at many times in my past), and build up some ill will in the ol' karmic bank. Stick to discussing hte matter in the HP wikiproject, and you might find that your statements might find some purchase there; playing the entire field is going to turn all opinions stony towards you. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 23:16, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I was going to do a DRV, but wanted to make sure is was the correct forum to do so. You're confusing getting third parties involved in a dispute as "asking a parent". In fact, the two terms are contradictory to each other. When there is a dispute between a few users that is unresolved, there should be other parties not involved to have a look at what's going on. As for discussing this on the HP wikiproject, in fact it has been discussed there and that discussion resulted in No Consensus to merge the articles, however you and another user are ignoring consensus. --Oakshade (talk) 23:24, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me, but I would ask you to not paint me with the same brush. I did not perform any merging whatsoever. I did not add any redirects. The only thing I did was to archive the discussion pages of both merged articles, so that new visitiors would not think the articles were still active. I would appreciate it that you be a little more careful before throwing around those accusations. Being upset is not an excuse for bad behavior, and if you continue, I will almost certainly ignore you. As well, I noted in my edit summary that I was going to continue the discussion with you on your discussion page. I have responded only here, and I would prefer if you would address my comments only here (or in the Wikiproject discussion). As I said, I am a neat freak, and it makes little sense to me to discuss a matter on two pages when it can be more understandable to do so on one. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 23:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

You're correct in that I used the wrong term "redirect". You moved, "ported" in your words, the merge discussion off the talk page to a Wikiproject page and only left a link to that page. That's not an "accusation", that's what you did. Per WP:MERGE, the merge discussions should be on the article's talk page, so some extraneous wikiproject talk page. That's why all the Merge templates redirect to the articles talk pages. You had a valid point to consolidate the discussions, but there is a specific template for that which in fact links to one article's talk page. If you prefer to ignore me, I won't have an issue with that. --Oakshade (talk) 06:27, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Please confine the discussion to the single venue - the Wikiproject discussion page - to argue for unmerging, please. As noted before, this affords us the opportunity to not duplicate our conversations. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 03:43, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

As per your comments in the HP Wikiproject, you seem to be capable of making an argument or expressing dissent for an idea without attacking another editor. I would like to ask you - yet again - to exercise some restraint in your comments to and about me. Comments speaking as to "my planet" are pretty uncivil and, were this the first time it occurred, I would be inclined to let it pass. As it is not, I am extending to you an official warning to keep it civil. This doesn't need to escalate, but any more uncivil comments from you will make that inevitable. I beg you not to question my resolve in this regard. In the future, please be polite. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 15:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I've started a new thread on your talk page in response to this and your personal attacks. --Oakshade (talk) 16:51, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

And you will note that the sour grapes comments and similar comments haven't recurred, unlike your comments, which have been fairly unremitting. Even if they had not, it doesn't present a justification to respond in kind. Please cease the uncivil language, and show some more good faith, please. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 05:43, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Airport notability discussion

You have shown interest in an airport AfD in the past at Chadwick Airport. You may wish to visit Stoney Point Airfield and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stoney Point Airfield to participate as well. This message is being sent to editors who participated at Chadwick but have not participated at Stoney Point, regardless of the editor's opinion. Thank you!--Paul McDonald (talk) 11:29, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

New Great Game AfD

I think you should know one of the editors who argued so vigorously against the New Cold War article is now trying to do the same thing the New Great Game on AfD--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 06:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Bruley

Hi thanks. I;ve managed to add an infobox and what needs translating but my editing is strictly inhibited at present by a computer virus which is affecting saves I do. It should be better in a day or two as I purchased new technology this afternoon and seems to have started working although not to full effect yet. Yes all French communes are notable and potentially could all be full articles. Given the mammoth task it will take time to get them even up to an adequate level, and pickuing on the random article won't work!! The Bald One ^{White cat} 16:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Slippery rails and locusts.

The page Otavi Mining and Railway Company refers to slippery rails caused by crushed locusts. Therefore no separate [citation needed] is surely needed!?

Don't you think that it is good that the locust problem and slippery rails are linked?

The link may be made more precise by having a suitable subheading Otavi Mining and Railway Company#Locusts, so that the links jumps right to the relevant paragraph.

Tabletop (talk) 00:29, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Quite an extraordinary and interesting version of "slippery rail." Like the major points in the rest of the article, it should have a reliable source.--Oakshade (talk) 12:14, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Deletion review

I have posted a question at Wikipedia:Deletion review#Paul_Robinett which you may be able to answer. Can you please return to that discussion to answer it? Stifle (talk) 08:22, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

It was too complicated of an issue that needed to be fleshed out by the community. The other editor summed it up well. --Oakshade (talk) 15:49, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

What do you think would have happened if you had asked MBisanz to reconsider his decision? Stifle (talk) 14:08, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

You would need to ask the user that (the user indicated that they endorsed their deletion in the DRV by the way). It was better to get community input in this complicated matter. Remember Wikipedia operates by community consensus, not single users. --Oakshade (talk) 14:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm fully aware of how Wikipedia works. However, the reason that the DRV page has an instruction (in two separate places) to attempt to resolve things with the closing admin first is twofold — firstly, it often allows the attention of the admin to be drawn to a mistake which they can correct, resolving the matter more quickly than a five-day DRV, and secondly, it's just common courtesy to bring it up with them first. Stifle (talk) 16:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

It's a judgment call to discuss with a single user or to seek community input. With a complicated matter as this, I chose community input and am positive that was the correct decision. Sorry you disagree. --Oakshade (talk) 18:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

No, it's an instruction on the DRV page. Quote: "Deletion Review is to be used where someone is unable to resolve the issue in discussion with the administrator (or other editor) in question. This should be attempted first – courteously invite the admin to take a second look." (Emphasis from original source.) Stifle (talk) 14:56, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

It's not an absolute "rule." If you feel there's a policy violation, you can open a case at the Administrators' noticeboard. --Oakshade (talk) 15:22, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Vallarta Supermarket logo.gif

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• That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --FairuseBot (talk) 05:11, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:German WWII Frieght Train.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:German WWII Frieght Train.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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MP Discussion

We're on the same side in the Market Post Tower debate. But I have to ask you to dial it back. Your impatient manner with Ikluft is just a little past wp:civility.--Isaac R (talk) 01:01, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Now now, we're keeping the topic on policy and guidelines. Not calling him names or anything. Wouldn't do that. --Oakshade (talk) 01:17, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Name-calling is not the only form of incivility. Some of your comments amount to an accusation of bad faith. Unless you have stronger evidence of this than anything I've seen, that's a big no-no. Isaac R (talk) 00:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually the guy's last comment to me was the worst in the thread. As for the bad faith accusation, he seems to keep changing his mind on what is acceptable and also makes flat out false statements about our guidelines. I call people on that. That's not incivility, it's correction. --Oakshade (talk) 01:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Since you're so fond of citing the rules at people, I think it's time you read wp:civility with some care. If you did, you'd realize that your judgmental tone counts as incivility, and that nothing the other guy does justifies incivility on your part. And try to remember that this comes from somebody with no axe to grind with you — it's my article you're trying to save! Isaac R (talk) 20:37, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I just don't think correcting someone on false statements about Wikipedia guidelines is uncivil (I honestly do feel the guy is suffering from a case of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT which is considered disruptive per our policies). I suppose the IDONTLIKEIT suggestion might be construed as an assumption of bad faith, but other than that, this guy has been the real attacker with uncivil tone ("you impress no one", "stop complaining", etc). You might have noticed i didn't respond to those personal attacks in kind and stuck to discussing guidelines. You are free to elevate this to the Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents board.--Oakshade (talk) 21:25, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Quote: "As your position keeps changing, it's becoming impossible to respond to you." That's an accusation of bad faith, as is your constant citing of essays like IDIDNTHEARTHAT and IDONTLIKEIT. (Which are not policies, by the way.) He's entitled to have more than one argument, but you are not entitled to play shrink with him. Isaac R (talk) 03:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Constant? LOL! First of all, I never cited IDIDNTHEARTHAT in the thread (although I do believe he's acting that way and I don't think it would be uncivil if i did cite it) and only suggested IDONTLIKEIT once. I stand by his position changing stance (or should i say multi-stance?) which doesn't seem to violate WP:CIVIL. You're correct about IDIDNTHEARTHAT not being policy; it's part of the behavior guideline Wikipedia:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. --Oakshade (talk) 03:44, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Keene

Well, the version that was deleted said "Bill Keene was a radio broadcaster and radio personality", and that's it. Your version, however, definitely does show notability. Good job. DS (talk) 04:36, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Oakshade. You have new messages at Neurologic's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I wanted to thank you for not leaping on me about my mistakes, I have read and re-read the deletion, and CSD policy, and I hope I'll be able to make more informed tags and nominations in the future. I'm sorry for causing a problem, thanks for your help. Neuro√Logic 03:15, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Gavin.collins RFC/U

Hello. A request for comment on user conduct has recently been filed regarding Gavin.collins. Since you had endorsed at least one summary in the prior Request for Comment, I thought that you would want to know. You can see the RFC/U here. Thank you. BOZ (talk) 00:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Blagojevich

Hi. Sorry, I couldn't resist, I just couldn't help but see the resemblances of the political motives of Blago and Chen Shui-bian. I know it's wrong and I shouldn't express my opinions here, I was just a little mad at how Blago could do such a thing. Thank you. Iamwisesun (talk) 19:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Deletion review for Rolando Gomez

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Rolando Gomez. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedy-deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review.--72.191.15.133 (talk) 18:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Marta Martin

Can you comment on exactly which roles were significant in the AFD? - Mgm|^(talk) 05:55, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

I've dropped another question at the AFD. You probably have an answer or at least an idea where the borderline lies. - Mgm|^(talk) 00:00, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Black Flag

Please stop reverting on the claim that "you have to follow consensus". There has been no consensus, nor in fact any discussion, regarding the lead section of the article. There is a discussion on the talk page concerning genres, but that was pertaining to the infobox and not the lead. There was a discussion along these lines, but it was on a different article. See here. And I was not the one who originally made the lead sentence say "rock band". User:Tim010987 was ([2]) following our discussion on the Misfits talk page. The logic is based mainly on WP:LEAD#First sentence content which advises that the first sentence "should give a concise definition: where possible, one that puts the article in context for the nonspecialist" (emphasis added). A "nonspecialist" means a general reader, ie. one that knows little or even nothing about various genres & subgenres of rock music. That is why articles like Nirvana (band), Ramones, The Clash, Green Day, Led Zeppelin, and many others all lead off with "rock band" and describe the band's more specific genres/styles in the subsequent sentences of the lead. That's how the Black Flag article does it too, saying 2 sentences later that they were one of the first hardcore punk groups. You will note on the talk page discussion regarding the infobox that their sound incorporated other styles over the years as well. That's another reason to use more general terminology in the first sentence and elaborate in later sentences. If you want to continue discussing this, I am more than happy to do so on Talk:Black Flag (band). Simply start a discussion there and then we can get other interested editors involved. But to continually revert on the claim that consensus exists, when the subject of the lead has never even been discussed, is disengenuous. It is also hypocritical to say that I'm the only one insisting on using "rock" in the first sentence, as you're also the only one insisting on "punk rock". Per WP:BRD, you were bold, you were reverted, now it's time to discuss. --IllaZilla (talk) 21:35, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Your edit was completely out of consensus. Response on your talk page. --Oakshade (talk) 03:10, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

My vote is for: "American punk band." I originally agreed with IllaZilla's idea that lead-ins should be very general, so I originally changed it to "rock band" but the more I thought about it the weirder "Black Flag is an American rock band" sounded. It's awkward. The exact same thing goes for the Misfits page where IllaZilla also contends it should say "rock band." I vote that both the Misfits and Black Flag pages should say "American punk band." --Tim010987 (talk) 09:28, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: Luna Lovegood merge proposal

Hello, Oakshade. You have new messages at Lord Opeth's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

minor typo

Hey man,

Just letting you know I fixed a minor typo here - you wrote Barrack Obama, when it's actually Barack Obama. Have a good day, and enjoy the inauguration! ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 21:01, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction! There were so many pages to put the links in, I might have made an error or two. --Oakshade (talk) 21:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Neville Longbottom edits

Hey Oakshade. I seen that you reverted the last edits on the Neville Longbottom article, and asked for "a month" to wait. I think that this doesn't apply in this case. According to the page on merging articles:

Merging is a normal editing action, something any editor can do, and as such does not need to be proposed and processed. If you think merging something improves the encyclopedia, you can be bold and perform the merge, as described below. Because of this, it makes little sense to object to a merge purely on procedural grounds, e.g. "you cannot do that without discussion" is not a good argument. If the merger is controversial, however, you may find your merger reverted, and as with all other edits, edit wars should be avoided. If you are uncertain of the merger's appropriateness, or believe it might be controversial, or your merge ends up reverted, you can propose it on either or both of the affected pages.

In this case, this merger is not controversial, not even you opposed the action of moving Neville into D.A. As the page on merging article says 'you cannot do that without discussion' is not a good argument, even more when there was a tag for over a week. The Neville merge/split is not such a "major" edit to give it a whole month. In Luna's case, there was actual opposition since day 1, but in this case silence has been present for over a week. A change needing a whole month of discussion would be like those that took place in the past with lots of articles being merged into several lists. Other individual mergers (Sirius Black, McGonagall, Hogwarts houses, etc.) lasted no more than a week.

I propose a split because we had to take into consideration the Family section, which was a common section for his parents and grandmother, all of whom are going to be moved into separated articles, as explained in the talk page. This has been applied in similar cases like Potter family, Weasley family, Ghosts, etc. Therefore, I will perform the edit. --LoЯd ۞pεth 04:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

• Merging an entire long article that has been in place for years is in fact a major merge. I won't undue the merge. However if someone else does, I will support them and pursue a proper-length discussion. --Oakshade (talk) 04:36, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: The Ludo

That's because it turned into a discussion, and some admin removed the CsD tag. Elm-39 - T/C 14:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

The Misfits' lead-in genre

Could you please change the Misfits' lead-in genre from "rock band" to "punk rock band"? Only User:IllaZilla pushed for this, and I originally caved in but the more I see "rock band" the more it looks ridiculous. Yet I can't change it without an edit war. Also, an anonymous user said the same thing in the last comment on the Misfits talk page. Can I please get your help to change it? --BlackMath77 (talk) 03:09, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree. And RfC on the matter will be opened if he insists owning. --Oakshade (talk) 03:15, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I am not owning, and you are welcome to continue the discussion on the article's talk page where other have already voiced their opinion. I feel it worth noting, Tim/Blackmath, that it's hard to see your previous change to "rock band" as "caving in" when you then went around enthusiastically making the same change to dozens of other articles. Can you provide a more reasoned rationale than "it looks ridiculous"? I feel strongly that this is not at all about contradicting sources, it is merely a matter of better wording in order to set the context of the article for a reader. Punk is mentioned just 2 sentences later, followed by the other genres to which the band has been influential. Oakshade, as I've previously said you are welcome to initiate an RfC, and I will accept any consensus which arises from it. However I am not alone in feeling that leading off the article by describing the group as a "rock band" is the best way to set the context for a general readership. This is about better writing, not quibbling over genres. --IllaZilla (talk) 03:33, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

• IllaZilla, one or two users wanting a change is not consensus. I think you need to become familiar with WP:OWN and particularly the sentence under the "Ownership examples" section that reads: Article changes by different editors are reverted by the same editor for an extended period of time to protect a certain version, stable or not. (This does not include removing vandalism.). Just because some articles had the lead-in sentence changed doesn't mean every article must follow suit. This is the same problem we were having with you with the Black Flag article. Stop owning. --Oakshade (talk) 03:55, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, IllaZilla has now established an edit war it seems. And I did not 'enthusiastically' make those changes; I believed that it was some kind of Wiki rule I'd been messing up but it's not. Remember, before you said it was a Wiki standard, I didn't like it? Bottom line: you can think about all these complex reasons and justify why "rock" is right, but people just think "punk band" when they hear "The Misfis"; Black Flag too. It's simple. Well, Oakshade, all I can say is, if IllaZilla keeps reverting, get an admin involved. --BlackMath77 (talk) 05:16, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Anastasia Blue

I know it may be a bit frustrating, but please be a little more civil towards a user trying to enforce WP:V. The burden of proof is actually on the person adding the content. This also includes debates on whether a source is reliable enough. Morbidthoughts (talk) 07:17, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Re: Tony Randall Show

Thank you so much! Pinkadelica ^{Say it...} 07:16, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Southwark streets AfDs

Many thanks for your support for Southwark Street. There are also AfDs for other major streets in Southwark, namely Union Street and Marshalsea Road. Your contribution to the debate would be welcome. — Jonathan Bowen (talk) 11:03, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Troyster87

An article that you have been involved in editing, Troyster87, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/J Stalin (3rd nomination). Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Troyster87 (talk) 08:58, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

appeared on Fox News

Someone who is actually notable doesn't have to mention a solitary guest appearance on a Fox News show to prove notability (aside from the fact that such an appearance does not constitute independent coverage). By insisting it go in the lead as a highlight of his career, you simply further the argument of lack of notability. See also WP:PUFF. THF (talk) 03:18, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

The content describing being the primary guest on an episode of The O'Reilly Factor is not "puff." I won't have issue if the content is moved to one of the lower paragraphs, perhaps the one that describes his book that was discussed on O'Reilly.--Oakshade (talk) 03:42, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

deprod

Sorry about not noticing that Randi Coy had already been deprodded. I have asked the user who prodded it the first time to nominate it for a full deletion discussion, but if he doesn't agree with me then the article stands as is. 69.251.183.222 (talk) 06:02, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Earth

I'm sure you knew that the afd was a joke? >.> Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 01:22, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Gladys

Thanks for keeping an eye on Gladys. James.lebinski (talk) 18:00, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: Black Flag

Regarding this, the Frank Turner bit is not mentioned in the source cited (Michael Azerrad'd Our Band Could Be Your Life). I know this because A) I wrote the whole inconography section, and B) I've got Azerrad's book sitting open in front of me right now. It would be pretty implausible for Azerrad to have mentioned it, since his book was published in 2001 and Turner's career didn't launch until 2004. The Turner bit was a random bit of irrelevant trivia that was inserted into the article by an IP. I righly reverted it. The fact that it was inserted in front of a citation does not automatically make it a valid edit; in fact it made it all the more inappropriate because it was being erroneously attributed to a source that does not in fact mention it. It is irrelevant, from an encyclopedic standpoint, to mention individuals who have Black Flag tattoos, as there are literally thousands (if not tens of thousands) of people who have them. Such trivia adds nothing of value to the Black Flag article itself. --IllaZilla (talk) 05:49, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

1. At least two reliable sources confirm Frank Turner has a Black Flag tattoo [3][4]

2. Not tens of thousands notable individuals have Black Flag tattoos. That is encyclopedic to the article. --Oakshade (talk) 05:55, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

invitation

Please accept this invite to join the Bilateral relations task force, a subproject of WikiProject International relations dedicated to improving country relation related articles. Simply click here to accept!

I noticed your work on some of the x-y relation articles, you maybe interested in this new wikiproject.

You may also be interested in Article Rescue Squadron. Ikip (talk) 04:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Colombia–Ireland relations

I saw this AfD, which caught my interest, then got side-tracked into mini-bios of Irish participants in the Colombian wars of independence: James Towers English, James Rooke, William Aylmer and Francisco Burdett O'Connor, then further side-tracked to Mariano Montilla and Pedro Antonio Olañeta. John Devereux (con artist) and Francisco Tomás Morales are obvious gaping holes, and I suppose others will appear. But to go back to the AfD, now in day 6, any comments? Aymatth2 (talk) 23:47, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Abuse scandal in Los Angeles

I created an entry on Sexual abuse scandal in Los Angeles archdiocese based on similar material I had found on Sexual abuse scandal in Boston archdiocese and Sexual abuse scandal in Chicago archdiocese. The abuse scandals are mostly over by now, so I felt it was appropriate to have an entry which records them more accurately. And while it's true that some of the material was forked from pages like Roger Mahony, I don't think the Mahony page should entirely reproduce the material found on the entry about the scandal. If you are in disagreement with this principle, perhaps you should propose the abuse scandal entry as an article for deletion, since it doesn't make sense to restore forked material. But I would add that it would not really be a good idea to propose it for deletion, since similar forks have also been kept such as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sexual abuse scandal in Miami archdiocese and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sexual abuse scandal in Cloyne diocese. ADM (talk) 10:29, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

While the content of the Sexual abuse scandal in Los Angeles archdiocese is large enough for its own article, much of it, particularly in regards to Oliver O'Grady, is not about the Los Angeles Archdiocese, but in fact took place in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Stockton, where Mahony presided as archbishop. I'm going to remove the O'Grady content from that article and move it to the Mahony one. --Oakshade (talk) 15:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

That's fine, I accept the argument that Mahony had been in Stockton at the time. ADM (talk) 16:22, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

NowCommons: File:Fullerton Station.jpg

File:Fullerton Station.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:File:Fullerton Station.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case: [[File:Fullerton Station.jpg]]. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 09:33, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

File:GlendalStationStreetside.jpg is now available as Commons:File:GlendaleStationStreetside.jpg. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 15:35, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

File:Woodland Hills vista.jpg is now available as Commons:File:Woodland Hills vista.jpg. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 20:23, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

File:San Fernando Valley vista.jpg is now available as Commons:File:San Fernando Valley vista.jpg. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 02:16, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Michael Jackson

Sorry about that. All of the changes below the voice-type bit were unintended, and must have been the product of my somehow (without an edit conflict) editing a slightly older version of the article. Cosmic Latte (talk) 06:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

• No prob. After looking at the history, it seemed it was an accident. --Oakshade (talk) 14:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Barbara Biggs

Oakshade, I responded to your query here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:58.165.69.67#Barbara_Biggs_attack_account.3F

58.165.69.67 (talk) 05:22, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Kari Ferrell

I have nominated Kari Ferrell, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kari Ferrell. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Apoc2400 (talk) 16:17, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Wedcast renominated for deletion

Hi. I have renominated Wedcast for deletion - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wedcast (2nd nomination). As a participant in the original discussion I thought I should let you know. --Paddles ^T_C 10:21, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Golden State Freeway

You can continue improving the article so its worth keeping. Personally, I feel it does not hurt to have it as a sub-article to the longer Interstate 5 in California article. We have Pasadena Freeway, a Good Article as a sub-article to Interstate 110 and State Route 110 (California). If you want, you can improve the Golden State Freeway article to meet the Good Article Criteria. Dough4872 (talk) 16:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for pointing me at WP:JUSTA, I have never seen that before and I will use the advice it gives in the future. RP459 (talk) 18:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Please help reserve Hong Kong public housing estate articles

Please help reserve Hong Kong public housing estate articles Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shek Yam East Estate, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shek Mun Estate and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tin Tsz Estate. If this continues, I think most of the Hong Kong housing articles will be deleted. I suggested ways to improve the articles, rather than deleting them. Ricky@36 (talk) 09:21, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your support!! Let's protect Hong Kong culture! Ricky@36 (talk) 02:14, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello, Oakshade. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shek Mun Estate.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Public housing in Hong Kong

I have started a discussion about this topic and what we should do about the related articles at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hong Kong. Please feel free to add your comments. If you need an introduction to the topic, you can have a look at Public housing in Hong Kong. Thank you. olivier (talk) 08:48, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of FFF (gang)

I have nominated FFF (gang), an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FFF (gang). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:19, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

This was a flawed nomination. Not only does this pass WP:NOTABILITY, but your statement "Lack of significant coverage in multiple reliable sources" is not consistent with WP:NOTE guidelines. It states very clearly "The number and nature of reliable sources needed varies depending on the depth of coverage and quality of the sources. Multiple sources are generally preferred." The Rolling Stone coverage was very significant. And despite your claim that it lacked "significant coverage in multiple reliable sources", even link you provided showed additional significant coverage in the Los Angeles Times.--Oakshade (talk) 21:58, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Response from User:Niteshift36 regarding his personal attack

Note by Oakshade: The User:Niteshift36 responded the following I left on his talk page...

Regarding this personal attack in the AfD you created, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FFF (gang) (closed as a unanimous "Keep"): I know you argued very extensively to delete this article and you became angry that I responded to your arguments which I thought were weak and had nothing to do with WP:NOTABILITY, but that is still no excuse for a personal attack. I see from your deleted talk history that this is a common occurrence with you. Please keep your discussions civil in the future.--Oakshade (talk) 16:18, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

The following is User:Niteshift36's response he left here:

Get real. ASKING if this is personal to you is not an attack. And I don't care if it was closed as a keep or not. The process is what it is. I don't take it personally. Please don't litter my talk page with your false allegations and uncalled for warnings again. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:16, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

My response is on User:Niteshift36's talk page. As he keeps deleting this exchange, it can be found in its preserved form here--Oakshade (talk) 22:21, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

• Telling you that I'm done talking to you and that without my response, you're listening to the sound of one hand clapping is not an attack. For the second time, stop littering my talk page with your warnings. And do NOT restore material that has been removed. That is not your page. It is mine. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:16, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Balcony nightclub

Hey, mate. I just wanted to apologize for jumping on you so hard on the Afd board. I stand by everything I said, but I should have done it here on your talk page. To be honest, I am just really, really tired of being lectured by people (not specifically referring to you here) on these AfD boards. I always give due diligence to articles when on New Page Patrol, and I am usually very willing to withdraw a nomination if subsequent research turns up reliable sources. But these boards have really changed over the years, and it seems to be common practice (again, not specifically referring to you here) for people to just use it as a soapbox. But, and here I am being specific, did you really need to lecture me about Al Gore and the creation of the internet? Really?? Let's bury the hatchet, and our wit, and go on with the serious business at hand, with no hard feelings. Deal? ;o) --OliverTwisted ^(Talk) (Stuff) 06:22, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I thought the Al Gore thing was an obvious joke to be taken lightheartedly. It was important to point out that non-hyperlinked sources are still valid as your opening statement "There is a reference to an additional Lonely Planet article, but it is not available online for easy verification" indicates you feel a source being "available online" is required. --Oakshade (talk) 18:47, 15 September 2009 (UTC)\

So much for the olive branch. --OliverTwisted ^(Talk) (Stuff) 22:54, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

You asked "did you really need to lecture me about Al Gore and the creation of the internet? Really??" so I answered. What else was I supposed to do? Not answer?--Oakshade (talk) 22:58, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Felicia Tang AFD

I find your comments about me in this AFD inaccurate and inappropriate, bordering on the uncivil. The article in question was originally deleted by unanimous !vote only a few days ago. So we have a by-consensus non-notable person killed in a dreadful, but unhappily not unusual, act of domestic violence. There is a very strong consensus that being a murder victim, absent unusual circumstances and sustained press coverage, is not grounds for notability. So we have a disgruntled user recreating an article (without citing sources for any claims affecting notability, except the murder, by consensus insufficient). Absent any new claims indicating notability, I nominated this already-once-deleted-article for deletion again. Unless you can provide a reasonable, policy-based argument for treating this as "disruptive" editing, you should retract that comment and immediately remove it from the AFD discussion page. Frankly, I think you have misread the situation, since your comments seem to be based on the misconception that the article survived the initial AFD, when in fact it was deleted. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 06:03, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Never believed it survived the previous AfD. The article was recreated after new significant coverage about this person was published, which was after the AfD which resulted in deletion, not before. --Oakshade (talk) 06:06, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Then what is your basis for accusing me of "disruptive" editing? Being murdered does not, by consensus, generally make a non-notable person notable, and the other claims to notability were recently rejected by consensus. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 06:18, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Creating an AfD right after new significant sources have written about the topic, I find disruptive. And sorry, there is no "consensus" that being a murder victim doesn't confer notability. It's just a strong opinion by a minority of editors.--Oakshade (talk) 15:14, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Anne Brochet

Hi! It seems you recently created an unreferenced biography of a living person: Anne Brochet. Our verifiability policy requires that all content be cited to a reliable source. Please add references as soon as possible. Thanks! --LaraBot (talk) 00:10, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

WP:BLP only requires that controversial material either be cited or deleted. If you feel that the article needs to be deleted, you can bring it up for AFD.--Oakshade (talk) 00:32, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Jonathan Gleich (2nd nomination)

Hi! As someone who contributed to Articles for deletion/Jonathan Gleich and/or the deletion review of that AFD, I thought you might be interested in the discussion at Articles for deletion/Jonathan Gleich (2nd nomination).

Note: this is going out to all registered editors with talk pages who commented on either page, not just to those on the Delete/Endorse or Keep/Overturn side.

Thank you. Dori ❦ (Talk ❖ Contribs ❖ Review) ❦ 22:20, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Sari Lennick

I'm sure that you, as an established editor, are aware that the article issues tag itself can be edited. Do not remove an {{article issues}} tag until all such issues are dealt with. A generic one sentence article that identifies someone as "an actress" certainly is insufficient to establish notability; similarly, a generic statement about someone "working on Broadway" is equally insufficient as thousands of actors and actresses work there at any given moment. Also, please note the difference between {{unreferenced}} and {{refimprove}} and I have incorporated the latter in light of the statement about her Broadway work. Thank you. 147.70.242.54 (talk) 20:01, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

• Starring in a Coen Brothers film is an assertion of notability. You can send to AfD if you disagree. The citation covers everything in the stub.--Oakshade (talk) 20:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Miguel Cotto

I delinked the mentions of "Rhode Island", it is not the state. His official biography may be referring to this place, but there is no article about it as far as I know. - Caribbean~H.Q. 06:13, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Wow. Fooled me. --Oakshade (talk) 06:18, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Broken Newz

Thank you for your input about the PROD of Broken Newz. Could you please clarify where/when it has been referenced by mainstream media outlets? I searched for that information before prodding it, and couldn't find much; all I could find was it mentioned in forum postings on Fark, but my search didn't turn up any mentions in reliable sources. I had been considering at least tagging the article with {{notability}}, but if you can point me in the right direction for finding sources then my concerns would probably be allayed a bit. Thanks, rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 03:39, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

• This indicates it's been referenced by ABC News, Fox News, the New Zealand Herald and Wired News. Not a cut-and-dry keep, but I don't think a speedy is in order.--Oakshade (talk) 04:46, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kosvinsky Mountain (2nd nomination)

Do me a favor, and do not assume or make accusations about why I might have nominated an article for deletion, in fact, such is a personal attack, as quite simply, you accused me of having a bias without citing any evidence of the noted behavior.

I have no bias, I nominated that particular article for the reasons stated, I also replied to you much more in-depth on the page noted above. Please retract your insult.— Dædαlus ^Contribs 22:39, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

AGF reminder

Please remember to assume good faith when dealing with other editors. Thank you. KillerChihuahua^?!?Advice 01:22, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

• If you make a misrepresentation of another editor's arguments, I'm going to call you on it. If you feel this is a personal attack, you can open an investigation. --Oakshade (talk) 01:35, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

If I ever do mistake another editor's meaning, I hope you will be kind enough to gently inform me of my error. Meanwhile, I suggest you read WP:BATTLE. KillerChihuahua^?!?Advice 02:38, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

• Oakshade, you seem to be rather invested in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vantage Pointe Condominium for some reason. At any rate, you've argued with every person who "voted" delete and frankly some of your comments are coming across as rude. At the very least, speculating on other editor's motives is completely unnecessary, as are accusations of "limited searches" or that editors are "pushing a new agenda". Making an argument is one thing, arguing is something entirely different - its important to distinguish the two. Shell ^babelfish 03:15, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

• When an editor misrepresents or distorts the truth, I will call them on it. The "limited search" was 100% true and that had to be noted.--Oakshade (talk) 04:18, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

• Your opinion of the notability of the article is nor more "the truth" than the opinions of other editors there. Instead of ascribing poor motives to other editors (we really can't know other editors motives) perhaps you could just allow that there is room for multiple opinions on the subject. Shell ^babelfish 05:08, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

• It was the editor's misrepresenting of WP:NOTABILITY is what I was calling. Editors can certainly have opinions, but when the mislead other editors about our guidelines, that should not be left unchallenged. --Oakshade (talk) 05:44, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

• Well yes, that was one of your comments, but not the only one that appeared rather confrontational. In the particular piece you reference I see two editors who are distinguishing "claim of notability" and "meets notability criteria" because they were concerned that one editor may not have realized the difference (one is a speedy criteria, the other pages and pages of guidelines ;) ) Perhaps there is some confusion still over their statements, but it looks like when they attempted to clarify, you continued to argue and that's where it gets a bit worrisome. Anyways, just something to think about - editors can have different opinions of guidelines and how they are applied - working out those differences (or agreeing just to differ) shouldn't require claims that the other editors have agendas or are deliberately misleading. Shell ^babelfish 06:20, 12 December 2009 (UTC)