User talk:Mybuddyrobin

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January 2012[edit]

Welcome to Wikipedia, and thank you for your contributions. One of the core policies of Wikipedia is that articles should always be written from a neutral point of view. A contribution you made to Mars Needs Moms appears to carry a non-neutral point of view, and your edit may have been changed or reverted to correct the problem. Please remember to observe this. Thank you. No commentary, please. Drmies (talk) 03:06, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Drmies, I disagree that it is, as you say a 'non-neutral' point. There is a Wiki page in which 'injun' is listed as a racial slur. Parents have a right to know when there is something within a film (like nudity, violence, etc) with which they can then have the freedom to make an educated decision. I am not a usual contributor to Wiki. Thus I didn't know how to document my comment...perhaps the appropriate location or wording to to use was incorrect. I however utterly disagree with you decision and if you disagree with my response I would like to take it further. I am also contacting the director, producers, the ratings board and Disney itself. While it is too late to repair this movie ...every person that watches it...or considers watching it, has a right to know that racist comment lies within. Due to the fact, I did not have this information, I had to spend time undo-ing damage that it caused. I wish I had known prior to viewing this film with my children. Please advise how I can escalate this to the next level or help me discover the better way to have the advisory placed on this wiki page.

Thank you in advance, Mybuddyrobin (talk) 20:44, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So what’s to be done? “You’ve got to keep calling people out,” Miller said. “You can’t give up.” “It’s going to take a major change in society, Indians have to keep the education going,” added Williams.

PS. Wiki does have a racial slurs page...which I would like to cross reference to this film as well.

One further comment, your statement for no further comment was highly offensive. I have just as much right to respond as you have to comment to me. You may wish to revisit how you personally approach contributors. It come across as quite arrogant.

Seconding what Drmies has already said. We don't allow personal commentary in articles, period. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 21:02, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Mybuddyrobin, "No commentary, please" didn't mean for you not to respond. It meant that, as OhnoitsJamie says, personal commentary - as you added - is not allowed in articles. You should also note that Wikipedia does not give advice (no "it is recommended..."). LadyofShalott 21:46, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi LadyofShalott , Thank you for that clarification. The way it was put (at the end), for a new user is quite intimidating. Back to the edit I submitted.

OhNoitsJamie, There IS a racial slur in this movie...period. It needs to be identified...period. So my question now is, HOW do I need to identify that in the summary of this movie? It needs to be acknowledged. There are citations all over Wiki in regards to racial slurs and racist ideologies or comments. Why are some appropriate to mention and others are not? This movie is targeted at children and parents have the RIGHT to know and choose whether or not it is something they want their children to watch/hear. My point is not that the movie should be shelved... it is simply stating a fact... the racial slur (as also defined on another Wiki page) is contained within this movie. I personally do not care HOW it is written or documented. I only care that it IS documented on the site. Thank you in advance for your assistance. Mybuddyrobin (talk) 22:16, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There may well be, but it does not need to be identified. If they are identified in other articles, there's usually a point to it (not, warning the little ones) and there is a reference to back it up. Wikipedia states facts as they are reported in reliable, independent sources--that excludes you and me. I do care how it is documented: it should be documented. Parents have all kinds of recourse; if they start relying on Wikipedia to decide what their children should or should not see we'll need to totally rearrange parenting. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 22:59, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder--did you not see this edit summary before you commented in the article the second time? Drmies (talk) 23:02, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't ask me, but I'm going to respond anyway. What you need to find - if it exists - is a reliable source that discusses the slur. If you can document something of the following sort, it could be added to the article: "Noted film critic, Famous FilmCriticPerson, has commented that the use of [term] may be offensive to [whomever]. FilmCriticPerson goes on to say blah, blah, blah."[reference] That's what you need to add; if you can't find such published commentary (and note that discussions on blogs generally don't count as reliable sources), you can't add it to the article. Feel free to ask if you have followup questions. LadyofShalott 23:03, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Injun an offensive term for a Native American, corrupted "Indian".[111]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_slur#I

http://mother-earth-journal.com/2010/01/07/fox-alters-rnc-michael-steeles-racial-slur/

I will contact Ronnie Washines, the Native American Journalists Association’s president on this I guess with the rediculous back and forth I will contact my Tribal office as well as the President of the Ogalala Nation at PineRidge... as well as Indian Country today. I find it interesting that a well documented racial slur becomes my opinion. My original comment I also included a website that did document the issues with racial slurs. I did not..and still do not know how to footnote on this bloody thing... asked for help (see my original post where I added then deleted then added cuz I don't know how to do it properly)instead I feel that there is an attempt to not deal with the issue.. this is a documented racial slur. Do you want me to provide the time on the movie to be specific? Why does it have to be a movie critic to be a valid point? That is ludicrous. I have provided A LOT of sites and documentation yet it continues, I believe to be discounted. How can I provide to you what I already have. This is about the continual enculturation of racism towards the Native American people. I would do the same if there were slander using awful terms such as chink, Jew em down' dumb polock, etc. So with all of the sites I have provided (I can provide more if you wish) ... I cannot believe there needs to be a specific comment on this specific movie to make the comment inappropriate and reprehensible. My feelings towards this scene in the movie ...is much worse than I put on wiki... I worked very hard to reduce my repugnance and utter shock when I heard it. Yet there is ...it seems very little understanding of how damaging this statement is and has been to my people. I ask one of you to assist me in getting this resolved. The blocks every which way only continues our society in keeping these horrible stereotypes and racists problems in our society. I would be happy to discuss this on the phone or skype if it helps to knock heads togehter to figure out a solution. Ty 23:35, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the disjointedness of this.. I am now losing my cool... this stuff is exactly why I lost my heritage for so long because ppl just stick heads in the sand instead of championing what is right.. and challenging what is wrong.

Oh yes... in regards to the comment about the 2nd time. I guess you super users don't get how confusing this is for non users. I posted a comment a few years back on bushism... (no documentation..but hey Bush slamming was in then...unlike this) and no one ever challenged no one changed it. I went to my friend's house yesterday to show an elder the comment and it discovered it went missing.. so I was confused and didn't understand what happened... so re-did it. Mybuddyrobin (talk) 23:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Robin, sorry, I know Wikipedia's rules can be confusing. If you look at my talk page, you'll see that just today I learned of a rule I didn't previously know. Anyway, the reason you have to cite a critic is that Wikipedia requires that all information be verifiable to reliable sources. You cite the Wikipedia article on slurs; however, Wikipedia does not count as a reliable source for itself - we can't cite WP article in other WP articles. The other factors that are relevant here are no original research - we can't use your conclusions, no matter how reasonable - and due weight - if noted critics/social scientists/Native American scholars/somebody relevant have seen fit to comment about the film's use of the term, then that shows it is worth being commented upon. I hope this helps. LadyofShalott 23:57, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, if you do find relevant published commentary about the film, I'll be glad to help you with any footnoting. Meanwhile, the simplest thing you can do is enclose a reference inside ref tags like this:

<ref>Stuff to be included in the reference</ref>

Let me know if you have something specific to use. (I'm afraid that even with your source, the wording you typed earlier won't work.) LadyofShalott 00:05, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ok, I have been fighting cancer and other health and this fell by wayside. I do not care how it is notated. I just want ppl to understand it is there. As far as a critic.. seriously? Why should a non Native critic care? This is a fact. If you like I can rewatch the movie and document the exact spot where the offensive injun comment is made. It is fact, Google has already determined it is a racial slur...why does a person have to reference it? it is fact. grr I wish there was an email me button. Too ill to keep up with own life let alone this. Just let me say one more thing. Based on the way this has been handled...proof by white movie guy...is bizarre and if science were documented by a lucky man who gets to watch films all day and that becomes gospel truth... wow poor people of color no hope for truth to arise.

Robin Hamm aka mybuddyrobin