User talk:ClaudioMB/Older than 12 months

Welcome!

Hello, ClaudioMB/Older than 12 months, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Terrorist attack on Japan by the USA

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. I noticed that you removed the story about the terror attack perpetrated by the USA on Japan. You stated in the comment, that the killing of inocent civilians by the USA was a war act. Well, if that is so, I assumed that the killing of Americans in 9/11 is also a war act, because a war was declared against the USA by al-Qaeda. I understand that you might feel emotioned, but we must be neutral. Please feel free to comment or reply to me. Thanks, SeiteNichtGefunden. 03:55, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I did removed it. But, I removed what I previously added. First, I added that attack as a terrorist attack, but I change my mind because the US and Japan were at war. So, I trying to add it as a war crime instead. Look the discussion about the article "List of war crimes", then you'll see that I talking about adding that attack to the article. So far, just one person add a comment about it. Please fell free to add your comments there. Thanks. ClaudioMB 17:47, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Football Club Listings

I liked your sortable format so much that I basically copied it into my Fulham FC version, with a few small changes. But I know certain people on Wikipedia feel very strongly about making formats standard and while I like the sortable format better, I don't think it's important enough to argue about. Sorry. Hermanjoshua 16:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Harsh tone - apology

Sorry if my tone in that edit summary came across as harsh - it wasn't intended. I just thought the description was too long, and as you'd signed it I'd mistakenly assumed you thought you wanted discussion there. Apologies. Qwghlm 15:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

No problem at all.--ClaudioMB 15:51, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

FC Barcelona squad

This article is nominated for delete, therefore, is a useless article. The only source for FC Barcelona squad is this: www.lfp.es, Some question? --Raymond Cruise 12:56, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

A nominated to deletion article doesn't mean it will be deleted, so, still useful. www.lfp.es is about FC Barcelona in Spanish football. If you go to a different competition, like Champions League, you will see a different squad. Anyway, I believe that who owns the squad (FC Barcelona) has the last word about it.--ClaudioMB 18:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

• If any editor in the discussion is rude, remind them to be polite on their talkpage. If you feel that the deletion process whilst under discussion has been seriously compromised, you may wish to submit a deletion review. Apologies for the delay in replying, hope this helps! - Best regards, Mailer Diablo 10:29, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Template:Fb si footer

A tag has been placed on Template:Fb si footer, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag) and leave a note on the page's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself.

If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Tiggerjay 23:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

• In the future, please do not simply remove CSD, but rather provide an explanation for the change in either your talk page, the article/template discussion page, or on the Edit Summary. Thanks. Tiggerjay 16:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

• • Could I create a Template in the sandbox? Other pages could use a Template created in the sandbox?--ClaudioMB 19:36, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

• No, sorry, you cannot link mainpage articles to templates or other items in your sandbox. Tiggerjay 19:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

• I didn't test that before ask you. Now I tested that and yes it is possible create a Template anywhere (sandbox, User:, Category:) in Wikipedia but articles. For example User:ClaudioMB/Test. From now on, I will test everything in my page. But, did you realize you tag Template:Fb si footer to speed deletion in less than 1 minute the template was created? Please, next time, give more time for people fix something they just created. Thanks.--ClaudioMB 16:29, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, you are able to create templates and they do work, however policy (I'd need to look it up) that you do not have mainpage articles (ie not sandbox) which link to templates within your userspace. It is technically possible but not permissible. Regarding your comment about speedy deletion, the intention is to speedily remove bad content, because bad information is worse then no information. However, each individuals safe guard is that a regular editor, such as me, must have their request followed through by an administrator who is supposed to take more time in reviewing before deleting. I hope that helps clear things up for you. :) Tiggerjay 03:57, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

• I understand your intention of clean Wikipedia. But, you should be more careful before ask an article or template to be speedy deleted. Give at least couple hours after something been created before consider it as garbage. Thanks.--ClaudioMB 17:57, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

• Templates such as this and others which you have created which appear to only have use on one specific page should simply be designed as a table on such page. Templates should be designed with a larger scope of several articles, not just one. Tiggerjay 20:49, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

This template is been used by 3 articles and could be used by several more. I just do not understand why do not wait couple hours before tag something for deletion. For me, looks like a wast of time and unnecessary stress for who is deleting and who is creating. I hope that is not a Wikipedia policy, if it is, it's a bad policy.--ClaudioMB 22:45, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Probably one of the most effective edit policies is WP:BRD. Tiggerjay 03:42, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Template:Fb player Raúl

A tag has been placed on Template:Fb player Raúl, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template {{hangon}} to the page and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

I don't think you really want to create a template for one player, do you? Corvus cornix 17:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

That's my intension at this moment. Let's see how it works.--ClaudioMB 17:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't remove the db tag, follow the instructions in the pink box. And what are you planning on putting in this template? And on what articles? Corvus cornix 17:23, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I explained on the template why I removed the tag. If the tag is there the template does not work. Please, remove the tag. the template is ready. You can see the articles the template is linked using "What links here". Thanks.--ClaudioMB 17:27, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The template is being used solely in discussions on User pages. What is its purpose? All it contains is the player's name. You have not explained what you plan on doing with it. Corvus cornix 17:36, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I had to unlink the template because the tag. It suppose to be used on the Real_Madrid_2007-08_season#Squad_information like the others already there. At this moment, I'm not sure I'll keep that template and the others. I'm looking how that could improve the editor's work. --ClaudioMB 17:43, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any other player templates in that page, but then again, it's hard to read those tables. But I still have to ask, what is the purpose of a template which contains nothing but a player's name? Corvus cornix 17:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The template is useful because editors know well the players name but sometimes not the article name. So, the editor enter the simple name "Raúl" (the name that will be shown) and then another template uses that template to link it the player's article. There is more like that at Category:Fb_player_templates.--ClaudioMB 18:02, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I have to go now, tomorrow I'll be back. I'll probably not use that strategy and templates anymore. Thanks. --ClaudioMB 18:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Sources for Real Madrid 2007/08

The info I�out this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. --Android Mouse Bot 2 00:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Option for Reyes

If there was an option for Madrid to keep, it would have been included in the loan deal. It would be like the transfer deals that have options of players from the reserve or cantera: specific time-frame to buy back the player and the cost of the buy back. There was no option to buy Reyes; Madrid is trying buy Reyes, but the clubs are not agreeing on the terms. Most team sites keep listing player whom were on loan if the team is trying to hammer a deal beyond the loan period. Team sites also do not list that loaned player if they are trying to sell or might have put said player on the transfer-list. Let's say you are correct about Reyes. Both Real Madrid and Arsenal web sites do not have Baptista on their player roster! What does that mean? 8 D Raul17 11:29, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I like to have source for any editing. I'm not 100% there is an option to buy Reyes, it's what I remember from last year, but I don't have a source for that. But also I don't have a source for the 1 year loan deal. What I have it is Reyes is in the Real Madrid squad and he is not in the Arsenal one. Please, if you have a source about his loan deal, then add him in the out transfer and include that source. About Baptista, also a have no source about his loan deal, and again I'm just following what I have, the squads. Once more, if you have a source for his loan deal, than include him in the in transfer and add him in the Real Madrid squad. I'm sorry if last time I sounded unreasonable, I was trying make sure the squad were reflecting the real thing, and when I don't find a source I change it.--ClaudioMB 22:41, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't have any sources. I just remember that Baptista and Reyes were to be exchange for the year. I am glad you have finally added some of the youth players to were signed to the first team!!Raul17 18:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Those youth players are in the official squad now. From time to time, I take a look at Real Madrid squad and Real Madrid news to see if there is any change or new information.--ClaudioMB 18:31, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Reyes to Atlético

I guess this is right. Marca

Need your expert advise

Hello! I hope you are feeling great. I would like you to view my comments here. Your thoughts on this matter is needed here. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 10:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Chelsea F.C. 2007-2008

Thanks for the suggestion regarding the above article in the Competitive section. I definitely wouldn't mind if you edited my article, but if I do it by myself then i may need some help later on.

I built those and other templates trying to make the editors' work easier. So far, just I and other editor have used them, and I'd like to see more editors using it to check if it is helpful or not, and what could be improved. So, if you try to use them, I'll be here to help.--ClaudioMB 22:11, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Category:Fb templates

Hi, ClaudioMB. I took a look on Category:Fb templates. I guess you are currently working on those templates. A lot of them looks like edit mistakes or works in progress. If you created some of those mistakenly, you can ask yourself a speedy deletion on this page. Thank you. Frédérick Lacasse (talk · contribs) 22:33, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Those templates are almost done. Some may look a mistake because they make sense just when used with other templates in a bundle. Others don't have a directly call, they are call by using a parameter like this: {{fb team {{{o}}}}}. So, if you have any suggestion to make clear those templates are been used and working properly, please tell me. Thanks.--ClaudioMB 22:41, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, i didnt realize it. Now i saw few articles where these template appear and it make sense to me. Nice job.Frédérick Lacasse (talk · contribs) 22:51, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for not deleting those templates before talk to me, I got problem before because some people tagged to speedy deletion right the way. Tags are a big problem for templates, because all articles using them become a mess.--ClaudioMB 23:02, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Goalkeepers' numbers

Because the Rfef has a rule that numbers 1, 13 & 25 can be assigned to goalkeepers, can Dudek get his #13 and Codina 25? Last season, Madrid had only two goalkeepers on the roster that was why Miñambres was assigned #25 (since he was on first team roster, he had to be assign a number between 1-25 with youth players being assigned numbers from 26 and higher.) Raul17 18:30, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I believe you are right, but I think we should follow the official source. So far, there is no number for those players. Please, feel free to change any information when it is released by Real Madrid.--ClaudioMB 03:37, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Chelsea F.C. 2007-2008

About the template; you know the last column which says "GD" can you stop this from appearing automatically. Also would you mind doing another column stating the scorers during the match.

Thanks for the help.

Copyrighted fixtures

The Premier League fixtures are definitely copyrighted, which means the FA and League Cups probably are too. You have to pay a licensing fee to publish them, and various football fanzines have found themselves facing legal action for this. I'm unsure about the UEFA ones, though. SteveO 00:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

It's copyrighted to the Premier League, not to the sponsor. The terms and conditions on the official website say written permission is needed to publish them. Also note the message at the bottom of the BBC's listing of them. See articles such as this for some of the legal action involved. As for the others, there aren't actually any fixtures to publish right now. SteveO 01:13, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that you're allowed to print past results, because they count as historical facts. It's just the upcoming fixtures you can't do. It is ridiculous I know, but it's something the Premier League do vigorously enforce. Regards. SteveO 11:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Only the Premiership schedule is copyrighted and expects payment to list them!! That is why many of the media do not list them (World Soccer Magazine is one.) I think it's okay to print the schedules for the FA and league cups because they are not the property of the Premiership but is under the FA (Remember, the clubs of the Premiership "broke away" from the FA to establish a new entity that the FA doesn't have apparent control over.) Raul17 18:47, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Giovanni van Bronckhorst

Where does your ESPN ref say 141? I only count 129 there, although in that case you count all matches including European and Cup matches. It's however a common thing to only name league appearances in the infoboxes. So in that case we should leave it at 105, just like the Voetbal International profile in the external links is saying. Cheers, Knurftendans 21:07, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I'm counting all appearances. I don't understand why keep European appearances out. How about explain in the reference that appearances consider European matches also?--ClaudioMB 21:18, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I was not only counting domestic league appearances. I don't get why count just domestic leagues, that's so far from reality. Also, the information is wrong since there is no direct reference about that count and the key for "App (Gls)*" is "* Appearances (Goals)". For readers, "Appearances" means any appearance (even friendlies), not only domestic leagues. Please, if you want keep that way, place a direct reference or change the key to something like "* Appearances (Goals) Only domestic league". Thanks.--ClaudioMB 17:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I understand it might sound a bit weird to not include other appearances like cups, friendlies and european cups matches, but that is the way it is done everywhere in the world and also all over Wikipedia. I don't see why we should change that for only one player and not for other ones. Sorry, but I don't think you should do what you want, but what the community wants. Knurftendans 20:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's weird count only domestic league appearances, but, it wouldn't be wrong if there is an explanation. However, count only domestic league appearances and show as appearances, without any explanation about that, that's is very wrong, because that is wrong information. If it's wrong information, it does not matter what the community wants, the information is wrong and must be changed. Tell me how the readers (the most important people for Wikipedia) will understand when they read that information, they will say "oh yes, appearances means domestic league appearances, not all appearances". Also, if other players' articles are also wrong, all of them should be changed. I've changed all players from FC Barcelona. I repeat here, it's only necessary explain what appearances is that about, do not need change the numbers. Thanks. --ClaudioMB 23:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the best place to discuss this is the Wikipedia:WikiProject Football. All over Wikipedia and the internet it's done like this. If you want to change something that is common for Wikipedia also, I would suggest you to go there and tell them about it and give your opinion, maybe they agree, maybe not, we will see. Cheers, Knurftendans 23:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

There is no need to discuss a correction of a wrong information, Wikipedia does not belong to the community. Anyone could fix anything without ask the permission from anyone else. But, as I was going to fix the information, I read the observation 1 for Senior clubs. There, there is a specification for appearances. That's awkward, since there is an observation for App (Gls), where the specification for appearances should be. An observation for Senior clubs should explaining something about Senior clubs, not appearances and goals. It's not good, but, at least, it is there. So, I apologize for 20wrote for Codina, Balbao, and others were from Real Madrid website. Some are from the 'cantera section and the others are from Spanish page because the English transation sometimes doesn't provide the same info as the original Spanish, isn't updated often, or the new material isn't translated. Also, clubs are limited only three non-EU players according to Rfef's site [[1]]. Because I'm not familiar with the site's new lay-out, I can't give you the exact page. Raul17 04:29, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Loan deals

I hate to tell you, but Reyes is officially with Arsenal. He was only with Madrid for the 2006/07 season on loan. As soon as the season ended, he had to return. Madrid is trying to buy him; but until brought, the loan ended. Raul17 06:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I understand that, but Real Madrid shows him in his squad and Arsenal does not show him in his squad. Also, I didn't see any other source confirming his return to Arsenal. Then I was just reflecting that. If Real Madrid still trying to use their option to buy him, then he still a Real Madrid player. Different from Baptista, since Arsenal already said they won't buy him. I'll open a discussion on the page about that.--ClaudioMB 16:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

FC Barcelona 2006-07 season

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on FC Barcelona 2006-07 season, by Roded86400 (talk · contribs), another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because FC Barcelona 2006-07 season fits the criteria for speedy deletion for the following reason:

Delete and recreate to purge history and release and save the space of wikipedia

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting FC Barcelona 2006-07 season, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to leave a message on the bot operator's talk page if you have any questions my mistake. What I'll do, it's to ask for a change in the box observations to fix that misplaced information. Just one more thing, it's wrong and dangerous to believe everyone should do what a community wants. Any community couldn't ever have supreme power. If it is wrong, it's wrong, period. Thanks. --ClaudioMB 00:38, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you when you say if it's wrong it's wrong and in that case it should be changed. However we are dealing here with some huge changes IF what you are saying is going to be changed and in that case it should really be discussed in the best possible place for that matter and that should be the WikiProject Football in my opinion. Unfortunately I do not understand all you are saying as English isn't my main language and I think there are some points you are saying that I don't get. I understand that you found something in your research that you wanted to change and are going to try to do so. I am personally not going to discuss too much about subjects like this, but I would love to be kept updated about this matter. So if you don't mind I would love to hear back from you on this, thanks. Knurftendans 01:08, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

No problem at all. I'll try to put it in another away. If you look the infobox of Giovanni van Bronckhorst's article or any other player's article, the title for the appearances and goals is "App (Gls)*". If you read on the bottom what the * is about, it says "* Appearances (Goals)". It does not mention anything about only domestic league appearances. Just above the "App (Gls)*" title, there is the "Senior clubs¹" title for that part of the box. If you read what the number ¹ is about, you read "¹ Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only". There, you have the information about the domestic league only appearances. I'm wondering if you ask 10 people to read that and tell how many times Gio played for FC Barcelona, how many you'll say "he played 105 times, but just domestic league games" or "he played 105 times". Like I said before, it's not wrong because the information is there, but could be misread for readers that are looking for a specific club appearance. I'll try to discuss this in the discussion page of Template:Football_player_infobox. I would never change that before a discussion, because it's not about fix something, but improve it.--ClaudioMB 14:17, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Great, I got it now hehe. It makes sense what you are saying and I agree that is should be better visible for anyone that only league appearances are shown in the infobox. Knurftendans 19:45, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think Cassano is part of the team

Please read realmadrid.com.

From my understanding, there are 25 players plus Cannavaro and van Nistelrooy making 27 players on the roster. If you look at the training teams, Cassano is not listed! The two "blue teams" have 6 players each while the two "orange teams" have 5 each with a total of 22 field players. Add Casillas, Dudek and Codina, and the two injured players, you will have a grand total of 27 players. I thought I read an article in AS or Marca that Cassano was pissed that a deal to sell him hasn't been completed. Raul17 18:35, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, if Real Madrid is trying to sell Cassano and there is a source for that, you could place him in the Players Transfer Out without the confirmation sign. Please, don't forget the source. But, until the deal is signed, he should stay in the Squad Information, because, even though he is not training with the others, he still a Real Madrid player. By the way, are you Raul after Raul from Real Madrid? :-) --ClaudioMB 22:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Do not edit talk page archives

Please do not edit talk page archives as you did on User talk:Tiggerjay/Archive Jul 2007. Tiggerjay 22:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but in my answer I included a link to my test page User:ClaudioMB/Test. And I need my test page to work. I shouldn't have make that link. So, what I was trying to demonstrated at that moment is gone, because I alter my test page. --ClaudioMB 22:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Number of non-EU players

The limit of non-EU players is 3 for Primera División clubs and 2 for Segunda División clubs. You will have to look under "circulares" in the Rfefwebsite. Though the text is in Spanish. Raul17 00:15, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. I couldn't find any reference to that on Rfef. Please, if you could find it, enter in the template or tell me the link. I entered a source for the 3 players rule, but it's an indirect information. It will be used until a better source be found.--ClaudioMB 15:02, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

This is the best I can do Rfef. It's on the second (or next) page under I. Disposiciones Generales; the second paragraph of Tercera. Raul17 19:10, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Done. Thank you very much. --ClaudioMB 19:49, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

chelsea fc 2007-08

In the squad stats table, should there be a number in brackets showing appearances as a sub or just starting appearances only?

In my understanding, appearances means when I player plays a match, from start or as a sub. For games started, there is a column to show the total of it (GS). The GS column could be used as source for the most frequent start, like here and most frequent pitch formation, like here. If you think appearance could be confused for some people, we could change the App.'s key to "Appearances form start or as substitute.". By the way, it's good for who is reading your talk to know who wrote that. You could do that just signing your entries. If you do not know yet, you just need to click on the sign button on the top of the edit box. Regards.--ClaudioMB 16:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Copa del Rey

If you goto Rfef under III. Campeonato de España/Copa de S.M. El Rey for the round and dates for when Madrid enters the competition. Raul17 21:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for this information. I've already added in the Copa del Rey 2007-08, so it could also be used by other teams' articles. Please, feel free to add information directly to the competition article. Regards. --ClaudioMB 23:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

champion's league

There is a possibility that Madrid doesn't qualify for the knock-out round or enter the Uefa Cup. I think that as Madrid progress in the tournament you will add each round (the same goes for the Copa del Rey) Raul17 21:14, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Please see my answer on Talk:Real_Madrid_2007-08_season#Last date of competitions. Also, I'd like to invade you to discuss things related to Real Madrid 2007-08 season in its talk page. So, anyone else could participate or see what was already discuss. Regards. --ClaudioMB 23:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

chelsea 2007-08

[2]

In the above link the rows are to high because of the length of text (it becomes two lines), but is it possible to edit the table to just leave the text on one line only? ThanksAzlan2k7 19:51, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Now, the there is no minimum for column width. That's the best possible without taken any column out. Anyway, you will have more width if you could set your monitor to 1280x1024. I use that setting, but I believe most of people use 1024x768 and I try to adjust all templates to this setting. Regards. --ClaudioMB 22:28, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Premier League 2007-08 Results Table

What the hell was that table, it was hideous, by all means, do the red blue and white bit but NOT the black squares, please find out what the codes are for the colors, but please dont re-add the black squares, Reply on MY talk page, as i will NOT reply here, El-Nin09 14:19, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Answer at Talk:Premier_League_2007-08#Colors_of_the_Result_table.--ClaudioMB 16:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I understood the diagonal squares, but not the ones for future games, they are white on tevery other table El-Nin09 18:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Hey, no need to apologize, you just use your default browser, just that most people use IE7 / 6 just check with a user who uses IE to make sure it is OK, we do appreciate the thought though! El-Nin09 20:20, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Template:fb r

As part of the above discussion, I tried toying with your code, trying to see why it didn't work in IE (don't worry, I didn't save any changes). I looked at your template, and it seems there is a rather odd part of the text sticking out (rather than staying hidden with the rest of the code - I mean you can see it just from looking at the template page) - incidentally, it contains the very colour hex code that appears to be missing from the table and causing the debate. I understand that you are far more advanced at coding than I, but I do rather wonder if you're missing a couple of close brackets in the code - I am wondering if one of the many many pairs of brackets has been opened, but not closed, and thus that part of the code has been omitted from the template. Call it a wild theory, but I figured it was worth querying you about. In your own time, of course. Falastur2 20:16, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for trying to fix it. The problem was that when there were no score, the template was generating a "bgcolor#" without any color. FF makes it white, but IE makes it black. I should have tested with IE (basic internet programming mistake). Anyway, the template's code is not easy to understand, even for who created it. Now, I enter comments that should help. Please, take a look and, if you have time, give me a feed back about the comments (so, I could use similar comments in other templates). Thanks again. --ClaudioMB 22:56, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

No problem at all. I took a look at it and your notation seems fine, (you might notice that I corrected your grammar slightly, but that was it). However, I hate to create work for you, especially after you have done so much already, but in truth, if you want to make your template available and easy to use for other Wikipedians, then I might suggest adding a section underneath stating how to use the code which is actually inserted in the article (see here, for example). After all, your code is most probably near-perfect now, and needs little tweaking, so other Wikipedians don't really need to know how to fix it. However, they might want to know how to use the template, and it's not always very easy tracking down where it's been used before to use as an example. You wouldn't need to do a full 20-team mock-up like in the EPL article, either - just a 4-team grid would probably be fine, perhaps with fake team names (such as "Team A" "Team B" etc) and a few results filled in to demonstrate the colours, plus a note saying that it can be expanded to fit as many teams as necessary. Just my thoughts, of course, don't feel compelled to create too much work for yourself if you don't want to.

By the way, I glanced at your test pages, and noticed your EPL table in-the-making. It looks very good - I'm especially a fan of how easy your code is to understand when in the article - though I do wonder if it might have colours for the European/relegation places, similar to the other tables around? That's just what I would do if I were making it, of course, please, don't let me take over your pet projects. They are yours, after all. I just like giving advice. Falastur2 23:16, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. That template example was really handy. I'm not in the final documentation phase yet, at this moment, I'm improving and tweaking the templates and helping editors to use them. After they mature and stabilized, I'll improve the documentation. But, I could help myself and I didn't a test on the Template:Fb r. About the table, I'm about to give it a try on Premier League (it's already up in La_Liga_2007-08). Personally, I don't like those colors for European qualification, because its not necessary, since the qualification spot is just beside, impossible to miss it. However, I try to make the templates for all editors, not just for myself, so I'll include them. By the way, as an editor and a software developer I hate enter too much details over and over in an article. I make those templates to enter just the real information and let the computer work for us and put everything in order. Regards. --ClaudioMB 05:07, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Np, if ever you want advice, feel free to ask and I'll say what comes to mind. As for colours - I have to say I don't like the greens in use in the EPL article, but personally (and I'm not sure what the consensus is, so this is purely my opinion) I think colours are useful, and if not necessary then at least of strong benefit. Apart from anything else, most official league tables shown on TV in the UK include colour-designated zones for European places and the relegation zone, even if they are only slightly subtle different shades of red, so here at least it becomes part of the pysche of the mind to look for them - when I view a football table, I instinctively look for the coloured stripes at top and bottom so I know exactly where the most crucial/interesting team places are. It's not that I can't live without it, just that I'm so used to it that it's natural. It would be a bit like watching football where both teams wore white shirts and shorts, with different coloured sleeves or socks. For a while, it would take time to tell who is on which team, because the difference isn't very obvious, but I suppose that eventually you would become used to it and not notice. Just my thoughts, anyway. Falastur2 17:46, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

doc

FYI, I have fixed the doc to follow Wikipedia:Template documentation. Please use this format for future templates. Thanks. —MC 01:21, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I didn't have time to learn how to create a documentation for a template. You have solved the problem.--ClaudioMB 02:22, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Most frequent starts positions

I think it will be for the better if you make the changes; I might make a mess of it! LMAO! Raul17 19:57, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Fb kit footer

The {{fact}} template takes a date argument: thus {{fact|date=August 2007}}. Not sure how this can be made to work with {{tl:Fb kit footer}}. Rgds, Rich Farmbrough, 11:45 22 August 2007 (GMT).

Spanish first team squads

Hello Claudio. I have initiated a discussion on how to present Spanish first team squads on WP:football´s talkpage. I think we should distinguish the actual first team squad (nos. 1-25) from players registered with a reserve team who have been given first team numbers (26-), since the latter are not technically members of the first team. I have twice tried to make the distinction on the Real Madrid page only for it to be changed back. I thought maybe you would have an opinion on the subject and would be thankful for your comment. Sebisthlm 16:30, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Inter milan 2007-08

Hi, I've seen you created and are maintain F.C. Internazionale Milano 2007-08, good work. I've created templates to be used in pages like that (like fb ss player, for Squad statistic) and I'm helping people with that kind of page. I realize this article have some table that looks very similar to table generated by some existent templates, like Competition Overall. If you don't mind, I could redo them using templates, so they will be easy to edit. Also, some templates that are not exactly like table used there could be adapted, like Matches Competitive. So, let me know if you want some help. Regards.--ClaudioMB 16:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

hi claudio i loved that you could help me Wael.Mogherbi 17:18, 23 August 2007 (GMT)

I already changed some tables using templates. Also, please, take a look at User:ClaudioMB/Inter. That could be the Squad information table. If it is good for you, copy it to a subpage in use user page and enter the data. After ready, make a single copy to Inter page. If you have any suggestion on the table, please feel free. Regards. --ClaudioMB 01:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Claudio for you help Wael.Mogherbi 13:54, 24 August 2007 (GMT)

I didn't a overhaul in Squad statistics. I hope that will be an improvement. Regards. --ClaudioMB 02:57, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

hi claudio again. can i ask you a favar, can you add in Squad information at goals and app. next to L, C, E S (Super cup) Wael.Mogherbi 13:42, 25 August 2007 (GMT)

No problem at all. I'll do it soon. By the way, what do you think of adding Start formation and Most frequent start on the article. I added them into my Inter page (with data from Arsenal), so you could check it out. Regards. --ClaudioMB 02:28, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Done. First, now the competitions for App and goals could be set. You could change the order, letters (in the header) and keys (in the footer). That will make useful for other articles as well. Second, temporarily, you have to use the templates test, test2 and test3. That's because I have to change other articles to those new template's versions. Third, I realized the order in Squad information is L/C/E/S and in Squad statistics is L/E/C/S. Maybe you want to change one of those to both be on the same order. Any improvement else, tell me. Regards. --ClaudioMB 00:38, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Here a suggestion for the matches table. Regards. --ClaudioMB 06:02, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

fb templates

Hi Claudio, I am currently updating the Leeds United A.F.C. 2007-08 season page that I created a while ago and you gave me some hints and tips. I noticed that when a user clicks on the sort button for the fee on the transfer out table, it does not sort the fees properly. For example: Healy transferred for £1.5m, Rose for £1m. For some reason, the template is sorting the players' fees with Rose higher than Healy. As you created the fb out player template, I was wondering if you would be able to give me some help in trying to resurrect this problem.

The column is sort as a text, not as a value. "." comes before letters, so "1.5m" comes before "1m". My immediately solution is when one player uses ".", all other should also use. I already did the change.--ClaudioMB 03:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Another similiar question, with the same problem in the Squad Information section. I was wondering if there is a way to sort the "youth system" fees lower than the "free" ones? Also, I am using the fb si footer template and I noticed that in the footer now is a line saying: "Squad limited to ? players." I was wondering if you could direct me how to edit this. Regards and thank you in advance. --t1v37r 08:15, 26 August 2007 (GMT)

"Youth system" be order lower than "Free" will be not easy, because Y comes after F. I'll try a solution later.--ClaudioMB 04:05, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

About squad limit note, here the template Template:Fb pl ENG 2007. I placed that note wondering if there is such limitation in England like in Spain (25 players). I forgot to place a question on the Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football. If there isn't such thing in England, the note could be erased.--ClaudioMB 04:10, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Delete template

What I need to do to delete these templates (Template:Fb rbr46 ground, Template:Fb rbr46 header and Template:Fb rbr46 result) that have no use anymore? Thanks. --ClaudioMB 03:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Either get the original author to tag them with {{db-author}} or gain consensus at WP:TFD. Stifle (talk) 19:09, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

CheckUser

Hi Claudio, there are some people who can perform a checkuser: but there will need to be a good reason for doing it - see the top of that page. Rich Farmbrough, 19:51 7 September 2007 (GMT).

Fb templates

Olá Claudio, não sei se fala português, mas julgando pelo seu nome e por artigos relativos a Santos-Drumont e Tupis penso que é brasileiro e me compreende. Estou a tentar fazer com que o seu template (Template:Fb r header) funcione com uma liga com 16 equipas (times) como a Liga portuguesa. Será que me pode ajudar?

(Hi there Claudio, I don't known if you speek Portuguese, but judging by your name and articles on Santos-Drumont and Tupi people I think you are Brazilian and you can understand me. I'm trying to make your template (Template:Fb r header) work with a 16 team league like the Portuguese one. I wonder if you could help me out.) Joaopais 14:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Agora o template aceita 16 times. Não sei se você percebeu, mas tem outros templates para a tabela de classificação e para criar articos sobre a temporada de um time. Se precisar de mais ajudar, pode entrar em contato.

Now the template accepts 16 teams. I don't know if you realize, but there are other templates for the classification table and to create a team season's article. If you need more help, please contact me. Regards. --ClaudioMB 16:20, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Club season MoS

Don't worry about it. We were all trying to reach the same goal i think, an overarching manual of style to work from in the future. Arguments can be carried over in wikipedia from article to article, and most of us have done it at some point. (with the possible exception of Jimbo). Football articles will always be places for passionate debate because the supporters are so passionate about their clubs. Good luck with your editing in the future! Woodym555 17:27, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Template:Close weblink

A tag has been placed on Template:Close weblink, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia per CSD g2.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as an appropriate article, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is appropriate, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the article and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag) and leave a note on the page's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. Balloonguy 23:28, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Template:Open weblink

A tag has been placed on Template:Open weblink, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia per CSD g2.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as an appropriate article, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is appropriate, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the article and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag) and leave a note on the page's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. Balloonguy 23:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Template

hello... thanks for making so many template for football season.. just wanna to ask, is it possible to create a special template for discipline (i.e. yellow cards and red cards)? btw, Infobox can help to sum up the important data.... Kkkc 09:31, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Yup, I could create templates for discipline. There is already this template (I could make the minute column be optional). But also, there is this table, created by another user, that I was thinking to make a template similar to that one (without the colors column to follow the pattern used on the other tables). What do you think? --ClaudioMB 16:54, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Template for discipline

(continuing from above)

I think the template for discipline in Crewe page is much better, as it is much clearer, but I also think that adding the number of cards in the stats list is OK... (minutes better be optional)... as the list will look very clumsy... :P Kkkc 12:46, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I've created these templates for disciplinary. As I said before, I didn't use colored columns to keep the same layout of the other tables. Please, feel free to make any suggestion on it. By the way, if a player receives a second yellow card with a red one, we should count only the red card or the second yellow also counts? Or a third column for second yellow (with red) could be used and red card column only for direct red? Regards. --ClaudioMB 23:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

P.S.: I've invited User:Glennb28, who, I believe, have created the Crewe table, and User:Falastur2 to give their opinions on this. Just to have more good ideas. --ClaudioMB 23:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks interesting. The choice partly depends on what exactly you are looking for, of course. Are you looking for a summary of the players' performances, and who has the best/worst disciplinary record? If so, then I'd say go for this one. If you are looking for a summary of the team as a whole, then I think that this looks best. Yours is practical and good-looking, Claudio, but it is similar to the second one I just linked, the difference being your "Notes" column to the "penalties conceded" column in the other. Personally, I'm not so sure of the necessity of a notes column, whereas penalties conceded seems more of a useful stat when tracking a player's malpractises. If I could say one (well, two) things about it, though, I'd expand the name column to fit a full name rather than just surname, for the case of teams with more than one player with the same surname, and I'd move the name column to be the second column in from the left. As it is, it works where it is, but it just feels a little out of place. Names are usually one of the first columns in, because the player's name is a very important piece of info, and floating in the middle of the template, it just feels a little out of position, and makes the template a little harder, and slower, to read.

Just my two pence. Falastur2 00:04, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I prefer have a disciplinary section instead of cards columns on the Squad stats because they make the Squad stats to crowed.
On this table, I didn't used the "penalties conceded" column because I believe that is not about discipline. The notes column is for anything important that could show up (I have no idea what could be, but someone always find something to input there).
About the name column, that's a good point, but I'd like to leave this discussion for another opportunity because it should be changed on all tables in order to keep a standard layout.--ClaudioMB 00:30, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

You have a point, about the penalties conceded. Falastur2 00:33, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I think that template will do the job perfectly! I only put in the penalties conceeded on my Crewe table because I took the figures from the discipline section on the Football League site.
The only thing I would suggest is another column for a second yellow card. glennb28 t • c 10:17, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

How about this? --ClaudioMB 15:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks perfect to me! Well done! glennb28 t • c 15:29, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

The new one looks ok great for me... I will change the page if I have time... Kkkc 12:48, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Conference National 2007-08

Hey,

Sorry if it's creating a lot of trouble for you (if it is, don't worry) but I was wondering if you might possibly be able to create a table along the lines of those you made for the Premiership and the Football League tables, only for the Conference. As is, we have them for every regularly-updated English football table except this one, so it makes sense to bring it into line with the rest of the articles on English leagues. I would do it myself, but as I've said before, I really don't have the know-how to work it out. I could try with some instruction, but I suspect that that would require more of your time than just doing it would. Naturally, I'm going to check on the discussion page if anyone has any objections, but as there are about a grand total of three users who update the table on that article, and one of them is me, I doubt that there will be any objections.

Again, sorry if it's too much effort. If it is, don't worry about it. The table is good enough as it is, and we can survive with it in the future, but your table is just much easier to look at and edit, so it seemed to make sense to at least ask.

Thanks again, either way,

Falastur2 14:15, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

No problem at all, I could create the Conference table. But, I want to improve the documentation of all Fb templates in order to be easy used by anyone. So, if you don't mind, I'd like to improve the documentation of the templates used in this kind of table, so you could create yourself. This could be a good test. Also, lately, I haven't had much time to contribute in Wikipedia, but if you have patience, soon or later I'll do it. Regards. --ClaudioMB 23:43, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Go for it. I'd be happy to be your guinea-pig. However, and when, you need my input, give me a shout and I'll pitch in. Falastur2 23:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: Jewish atheist

Posted in Andre (talk): I was looking for a mediator and enter your page. I read your introduction and something sparked my curiosity: how a person could be Jewish (or any other religion) and atheist at the same time? I'm sorry if that is a silly question, maybe I'm just religion ignorant. Regards. --ClaudioMB 23:43, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Judaism is a culture, an ethnic group, and a set of values, not just a theist belief system. Andre (talk) 21:03, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Barcelona's 2007-08 star formation

Hi. I made some changes to the article that you asked me for. I think we should add the information in a table with the Round, Date, Opponent etc. I also added the information of reference. I guess you didn't know it, for each match there is the starting line-up in the official website.

As for the prose, I figured out something about some paragraphs, but I'm not sure I can write proses for each section. Bardhylius 13:04, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the changes and you're right, I'll improve that page to a table format, that will be much better. I have seen that first team line-up in the official web site, but there is no formation (like 4-3-3) or players' position. Did I miss something else? Also, I'll try write some prose for each section (I did already for overall competition), if you could, when I enter them, check for any mistake or if you could improve them, that would be a great help. Thanks in advance. --ClaudioMB 01:19, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Template:Fb report3

Hi Claudio, Can you help me to use this {{Fb report3}} on {{Fb cm match}}, or just make to new template like {{Fb cm3 match}}. Or if there other way to use it in that template without make new one?? Call me about that. thanks --Saudi⁹⁹⁹⁹ 06:17, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Claudio, I wanna your comment about this, I made report by using this {{Fb report3}}, on {{Fb cm8 match}}. have a nice time Saudi⁹⁹⁹⁹ 01:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

About the test you've asked me to comment about: {{Fb report3}} was not finished (I should have placed it in another folder) and it has a technical problem, each team's fact is an individual parameter, making necessary to use more #if: then Wikipedia engine could support. So, we should use a single parameter for the facts. By the way, {{Fb report}} uses #if: in the limit, I will change it in the future. There is another advantage for using a single parameter, the lines are closer, making it a better looking table.

I've created {{Fb cm3 match}} and {{Fb report 2t}}. {{Fb cm3 match}} could be the replacement for {{Fb cm match}}. The advantage of {{Fb cm3 match}} is that it could use any type of report in Report column (using the new rep parameter), making it more flexible. {{Fb report 2t}} uses one parameter for all facts of one team. Also, the visual is a bit different.

I hope that is something we could use as start and improved it. Remember that we could start to use as soon as wanted in articles and improve the template later. Please, tell me what do you think.

--ClaudioMB 00:12, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Now, I will use it, so if there any changing notice me.--Saudi⁹⁹⁹⁹ 10:08, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Do you know any template to easily enter the zone time like: {{Zonetime|19:45|WEST}}? If there isn't it, maybe we should created. What do you think?--ClaudioMB 00:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I have 2 questions. mofm, for me, means a player for either teams. Should be changed or created another one to be only one team's mofm and show that in the description of the information? (like Real Madrid man of the match). Second, the parameters are ht (home team), at (away team), htf (home team fatcs) and atf (away team facts). Should be changed for lt (left team), rt (right team), ltf (left team's facts) and rtf (right team's facts)?--ClaudioMB 03:48, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

O.K. but about mofm , it uses with UEFA Champions League (each match has mofm on match's report from UEFA.com). So, I mean mofm for all team but I will use mofm for my team (like Real madrid) on La Liga matches only.

For second question, that will be good and easy if the match in neutral place.--Saudi⁹⁹⁹⁹ 10:08, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

The idea to use left and right team in that kind of table, is to keep the article's team always in the left side (Real Madrid always left), like the score column.--ClaudioMB 19:04, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Football templates

		Football (soccer) barnstar
		I, glennb28, award you this barnstar for your tireless contributions to football templates. 10:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much, I really appreciate it. --ClaudioMB 22:13, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Template:fb r header

Don't know if you'd noticed, but the template seems to be a little broken. It's showing a whole load of "unrecognised character"s instead of displaying teams 13 onwards properly. It's not so bad in articles, but as you should be able to see in the Premier League 2007-08 article, it's putting an unwanted "width=30|" into the actual text, next to "MID" on the top line (away teams axis). I'm not sure how to fix this, myself - as I've said before, I'm no code mastermind. Any ideas? Falastur2 21:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much to warn me. That was my fault. I've changed the template for accept 12 teams. I should have checked all articles that use it, but I checked just one (by Murphy's law, the only one not damaged by the change :-) ). Now, things are good, I hope.--ClaudioMB 22:32, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Any time. Glad to help you refine the templates. Falastur2 23:22, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

fb r header for 14 teams

I noticed that you know the coding for that template. Can you make the template accept 14 teams please. --MicroX 22:47, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the long delay. I was not using Wikipedia for while and I should have posted a sign about that. Anyway, you probably know that User:Darryl.matheson have added 14 clubs. Regards. --ClaudioMB (talk) 15:34, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

fb cm2 match

Hi Claudio. I am currently using Template:fb cm2 match on the Leeds United A.F.C. season 2007-08 page. But when you click on "Show" to get info such as bookings, goals, MOTM etc, it will not work and won't show the user such details. I was wondering if you as the creator of the template, have any idea of how to sort out my problem. Thank you in advance for your help. --t1v37r, 09:45, 13 February 2008 (GMT)

Sorry for the long delay. I was not using Wikipedia for while and I should have post a sign about that. Anyway, I fixed the problem. Thanks for mention it to me, because other pages also use the same template. Regards. --ClaudioMB (talk) 15:13, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Mastery of English

I don't think you have an appropriate mastery of the English language to be arguing with people on talk pages. You assume I'm being petty and disruptive, while I think the same because you can't adequately communicate in this language, and thus, things are being lost in translation. I'm trying to assume good faith, but I can't because you come off overly petty and pushy and you assume the same about others because of your limited understanding of English. You also make huge changes to articles and templates without consensus to do so and it has gotten you in trouble before. At the very least please work better to produce consensus rather than railroading your views through. -- Grant.Alpaugh 04:00, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

First, I know my mastery of English is far from perfect, and I certainly misunderstood things before. But, you saying that I'm not able "to be arguing with people on talk pages" is laughable. You could say that I'm very sensitive to certain comments. I could have agreed. So, I challenge you too show that my English was any problem what so ever in that discussion. If so, I will apologize to those I was arguing with and rethink about my "Mastery of English", if not, you apologize to me. Second, yes, I did once a big change in the code of a table without previous discussion, I learn from that and I didn't make the same mistake again. I'm not afraid of accept my mistakes. I learn from them. --ClaudioMB (talk) 05:27, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

As someone who is trying to learn another language myself, I understand that one of the hardest things to grasp is tone and idiom in another language. Compound that with a medium (the internet) that doesn't allow for additional information for context (facial expressions or voice inflection) and you seem to misunderstand what people are saying and how they are saying it. When people were calling you difficult, they were simply expressing their frustration with your repeated irrational suggestion that we change every article about every season of football that shows qualification for Continental or Regional tournaments based on the assumption that the average reader is of below-average ability to interpret very basic information, an assumption based on a logical falacy. Because of your misunderstanding of the tone, as well as your previous experience with people being upset with changes or proposed changes you've made, you took it as a personal attack and accused them of being bossy and we were off to the races in a mudslinging contest. That, more than your misunderstanding of a particular fact or code (you appear to be very knowledgable on wikicoding) is what I'm talking about when I say you don't appear to be able to effectively debate in the English language. Your ability is around grade school level, which is much better than I can speak Spanish, but then again you don't see me editing, let alone discussing policy etc. on the Spanish Wikipedia. The point is, you are never going to get consensus for your proposal, so the issue is pretty much moot. Sorry if I upset you, as that was far from my intent. -- Grant.Alpaugh 06:08, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

You upset me because you are totally wrong. First, at the point he said that I was been difficult, I didn't have said anything about previous articles. I just propose another solution for his argument to do not accept my initial suggestion. Also, I didn't repeated suggested "that we change every article...". You want make me sounds like I was annoying him. Also my point in saying that was we should not hold improvements in new articles because old ones. So, maybe you know English much better than myself, but it seems you are unable to pay attention and understand on what you are reading. I guess, you need improve your reading skills (does not matter the language). Second, I understood he was frustrated with me. But why he was frustrated? Because, I was contra-arguing him. That what I didn't like it. It's unpleasant and disruptive to see somebody frustration just because you are contra-arguing. It's like, people don't have that right. He should have kept his frustration for himself. Mostly because we already know very well each other, and he frequently comes to oppose my suggestions, I believe, sometimes, just for the sake of it. So, he should be more careful with any comment towards me, as I do towards him. So, you also should be careful to say something so strong like someone is not able to "arguing with people on talk pages". You need I much better argument than this one you present here. I've never had any complain about any English misunderstand before, eventhough I'm sure I did it. Also, most of people don't care much about it, because people want contribution, not perfect English. So, I'm waiting your apologies to make or future encounters less stressful.--ClaudioMB (talk) 07:16, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

P.S. I know I'm very upset about this and I could wait to answer this when I'm calmer. But, I want to show you that you should be more careful to criticize other people, that's something very difficult to do in a proper wait (even if you know very well the language you are using). Also, don't make it if you are already in the discussion, it will never sounds like you are trying to help.--ClaudioMB (talk) 07:29, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I just wanted to let you know that I can't even read your responses, as they are in such poorly written English. QED. -- Grant.Alpaugh 11:59, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Sure. LMAO. --ClaudioMB (talk) 23:44, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Disrupting discussion

Posted on User:PeeJay2K3's talk page. Please, don't disrupt this discussion with personal comments to others. My comment on Grant.Alpaugh's comment was just to clarify the proposal. He didn't understood it. So, your comments has no base, unnecessary and disruptive to the discussion. Please, don't repeat it. --ClaudioMB (talk) 00:28, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

That rather sounded like a threat to me. I'm fairly certain that Grant.Alpaugh understood your proposal, as his grasp of the English language is rather better than yours. Regardless, four people have now shown opposition to your proposal, so why continue with taking up the cause? – PeeJay 00:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

First, that was clearly not a treat. I alerted you that you disrupted the discussion and asked you to stop it. Second, for sure, Grant.Alpaugh didn't understand the proposal. My initial proposal was very clear about few pictures and he mentioned adding pictures of all the top scorers, award winners, and stadia. My comment on Grant.Alpaugh's comments was just to alert him and anyone reading it what was the discussion about. Nothing more than that. So, your comments were totally unappropriated. By the way, as I explained to Grant.Alpaugh, knowing well a language doesn't mean you understand what you are reading. Third, if I want to continue, I'll continue until I have no arguments. Anyone has the right to try hard explain and defend his/her ideas in a discussion. If you don't like it, ignore it, don't disrupt it. For example, I have already let it go your poor arguments in that discussion, I've questioned you once, you keep use them, what I can do, nothing. One more thing, another contributor also asked you to 'keep things civil' on that discussion.--ClaudioMB (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh don't give me that rubbish. Any sensible person would have taken that overwhelming opposition on board and said "OK, maybe that wasn't such a good idea" and left it alone. Like I said, you just don't know when to quit. – PeeJay 10:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what you think about another editor. Keep for yourself or talk to him/her in his/her talk page, but don't disrupt the discussion. If you cannot deal with someone that you consider "not sensible", don't go to discussion pages. I really get frustrated with you and your poor arguments, but, hey, even people like you have the right to discuss and I'll not disrupt a discussion because that.

So, my message is very simple: please, don't disrupt discussions. --ClaudioMB (talk) 20:20, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

League table template relegation/promotion marks

Hey Claudio. I welcome the addition of the relegation=y stuff on your league table template to show relegated clubs and all, but there seems to be a problem as can be seen here - it's forcing the (R) and (P) etc onto a seperate line, which is disrupting the table somewhat. I would try to fix it myself, but I have no coding skill. Any chance you could take a look? Thanks. Falastur2 (talk) 17:59, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Yup, I'm aware of the problem. It's cause by a error in team templates. I'm fixing it, but I'm still on teams starting with letter L. If you want to fix just for those teams, here's the instructions:

1. go to Category:Fb team templates;

2. edit the team template you want to fix it;

3. replace the end of the line after the country's code for this: |oc={{#if:{{{oc|}}}|{{{oc}}} }} }}<!-- --><noinclude>[[Category:Fb_team_templates]]</noinclude>

Example: Template:Fb team Port Vale

--ClaudioMB (talk) 18:13, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

OK. I'll work backwards alphabetically then, if you want, so that we don't get in each others' way. Falastur2 (talk) 18:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, that'll be a great help. But, it's not an emergency, so, if you need to stop it, you can continue another time. --ClaudioMB (talk) 19:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Fairs-Uefa cup

Hi, Claudio!

¿Do you speak spanish? I´m from Argentina. I want to invite you to a votation about the problem of Fairs cup/Uefa Cup. This is the link [3]. I don´t know the real value of this, but you can participate.

See you, --Ultracanalla (talk) 05:13, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Ultracanalla!

Thanks to show me that survey. I'm totally amazing by some people there. They believe on those unofficial records like a "holy record". I think they run those record in England for long, long time and some people just can't accept they were wrong for so long. This whole thing starts to be a bit ridiculous and funny, because there are so many direct statements from UEFA that Fairs Cup records are not consider. Anyway, I glad there are many others on the official records side.

By the way, I'm from Brazil, and, of course, speak Portuguese.

--ClaudioMB (talk) 06:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Template:Fb round2 2008-09 UCL 3QR

I've deleted this, but for future reference the correct tag to request deletion pages outside the user namespace which you created is {{db-author}}. Thanks! Stifle (talk) 10:12, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Prem Table

The new table looks stupid with the UEFA Cup slots in two rows. I'm changing it back until you find a better way to implement it. -- Grant.Alpaugh 04:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I've fixed the problem before save the new version, but Wikipedia software need few minutes to update the data. --ClaudioMB (talk) 04:25, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I've checked again, and it was my mistake. I've fixed the wrong template (2007-08 instead of 2008-09). Now it's OK. Regards. --ClaudioMB (talk) 04:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Template:Fb cl2 qr

How about playoffs? such as promotion/relegation play offs? Matthew_hk tc 09:15, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe that it should be used the qualification option and creating a competition template for the playoffs. Here is an example. --ClaudioMB (talk) 15:43, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Playoffs

(posted on Falastur2 (talk))
How about link the playoff template to the playoff section like I've done for Template:Fb_competition_2007-08_NPL_Division_One_North_Playoffs. So, readers could easily click on the link to go to the playoff section like in here Northern_Premier_League_2007-08#League_table_2. --ClaudioMB (talk) 13:44, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm all in favour. That's what I wanted to do in the first place, but when I made my tables, the season wasn't over, so the playoffs sections hadn't been added to the article, and so the link became an unclickable black link, as all links to the main article name are (i.e. if I type User talk:ClaudioMB in here, it should come out with no link, because an article can't link to itself.

I'll get round to changing the templates I made later today. Thanks for mentioning, though. Falastur2 (talk) 14:36, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

League One Play-offs

Hi Claudio, I don't know if you could help me at all. I'm the most regular editor of the Leeds United A.F.C. season 2007-08 page and Leeds have qualified for the Football League One play-offs. Could I ask your advice - for the some sections, I do not know if I should include playoff data in them or not eg, Results by round and the "Round" column in Competitive (do I create a new competition for the Playoffs or do I continue it as "match 47"? Thank you for any advice in advance. Regards. T1v37r (talk) 11:07, 1 May 2008 (GMT)

My PoV is that:

1) Results by round should show only the 46 regular league matches;

2) Competitive should show any competitive match, including the playoffs. The competition template for this playoff already exist: Football League One Playoffs;

3) Create a Playoff subsection for Leeds_United_A.F.C._season_2007-08#League_One showing the playoffs matches, just like this The_Football_League_2007-08#Football_League_One.

I hope I could help. --ClaudioMB (talk) 17:03, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Cheers for the advice Claudio. Will do that. --t1v37r (talk) 18:51, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Sandbox

Post on Fadiga09: Just a suggestion: I believe it will be better you create the whole table in a sandbox, then copy the ready table at once to European football records. --ClaudioMB (talk) 17:30, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

OK, cheers, i'm used to this whole Wikipedia table thing, thanks. (Fadiga09 (talk) 17:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC))

Template:Fb cl team

Hi Claudio. I noticed a fundamental error in this template today - it assumes every team's suffix is F.C., whereas this is not necessarily the case - many teams are A.F.C. (and therefore its use creates broken links). Do you have any idea how to solve this? Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 57 17:47, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Number 57. This template does assume that. It got the team's name and link from another templates located in Category:Fb team templates that also doesn't assume that. Regards. --ClaudioMB (talk) 19:50, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Template:Fb cl2 qr

If there is extreme case, the team won qualification to European competition and Relegated, how to show? Matthew_hk tc 07:06, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I really don't know. But, if it happens, then we could find a solution. --ClaudioMB (talk) 19:51, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Age tag for the the fb in, fb si and fb out templates

There should be a fixed date in the header of the fb in, out and si templates to which we can set the agecount to. For instance, when there is an article concerning the 2007-08 season of a team, the players' ages will keep going up even after the season is finished, but if we set a referencedate to which the ages are recorded, for instance August 2007 (beginning of season), January 2008 (half of season) or June 2008 (end of season), someone looking at this article in 50 years won't see players aged 70 to 90 years old :) So maybe an extra tag agetime=refday is needed, so that the players' ages on date "refday" are shown. --Pelotas^talk 04:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by extra tag, but in the bottom of the squad information and players in / out tables there are explanation about the age: end of the season for squad information and signing day for players in / out. So, for example, if you take a look at Arsenal_F.C._season_2007-08#In code, you'll see something like this age={{age|1985|4|18|2007|5|25}}. I hope that's a solution. If you have a better solution, please lets discuss it. Regards. --ClaudioMB (talk) 16:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

You're absolutely right, my bad :) Although instead of using age={{age|1985|4|18|2007|5|25}}, it is just a tiny bit more work than using age={{age|1985|4|18}} everytime and specifying the "2007|5|25" part somewhere at the top/bottom... but then I might just be lazy. :) --Pelotas^talk 16:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

If we could specify a date for all players just once, that would be great for Squad information table (for player in / out is better use the day of the signing). I don't know how to do it, if you know it, please, could you do it for Arsenal_F.C._season_2007-08#Squad_information. I guess the date should be the date of last match of the season (11 May 2008). --ClaudioMB (talk) 14:36, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Template:Fb rbr header

Hi. Can you please make {{Fb rbr header}} able for 33 matches? kalaha 16:05, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. --ClaudioMB (talk) 15:19, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

There is an error. kalaha 15:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Now, it's done. --ClaudioMB (talk) 15:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Fb disc footer

Hi ClaudioMB, please could you give me some clarification on your Template:Fb disc footer. When a player receives 1 yellow card, then another to automatically send him off, do you add 1 or 2 in the yellow card column for the player. After all, he would have received two yellow cards in the match, but in addition he gets a red card, so would it be:Sendings off after 2nd yc = 1, Number of bookings = 2?

Thanks for your help. t1v37r (talk) 23:03, 4 June 2008 (BST)

I'm copying from the teams' records. So, I'm not sure if they consider a second yellow card as another yellow (it's not clear) or only sent off after 2 yellows. I PoV is that a second yellow card should count as one more yellow card (a booking is a booking) and a sent off after a second yellow card. --ClaudioMB (talk) 14:08, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:Fb cm3 match

Hi. Is it possible to enable "grond name" in {{Fb cm3 match}} when g = H or A also, as sometimes matches aren't neutral, just because they aren't played at a team's regular home ground. Eg is F.C. Copenhagen playing Cliftonville F.C. from N.Ireland. Cliftonville's home ground, Solitude doesn't require UEFA standards, so the first leg will be played at Mourneview Park - but Cliftonville is still playing "home". Thanks. kalaha 11:25, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I didn't know it, but someone had already included that feature in the template, but it was not documented. I made some changes and documented it. The person who made the change used HC and AC, but I don't know what C stands for (I asked him). I used HR (home replacement) and AR (away replacement), but if you know a better way to explain it to readers, please, let me know.--ClaudioMB (talk) 13:34, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Template:fb cm3 match

Hi, you did a good improvement on Template:Fb cm3 match, adding HC and AC for home and away grounds different from the regular ones used by the teams. I've improved it a bit to show HR (home replacement) and AR (away replacement) instead of H and A, to be easier to readers spot the difference. I used R because I didn't figure out what C means. If it is better than replacement, I could change it.--ClaudioMB (talk) 13:30, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I use HC and AC because the "C" means customize. But it seems "R" is better than "C", and the template is better now. :-) --Antonytse (talk) 13:55, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Wondering about a change

Hey. I noticed you've made a fair few edits to The Football League 2008-09 so I was wondering if you would take a look at this and see what you think of it? I'm just looking for thoughts at the moment, it's not a full-fledged proposition for change, but anything you add to the discussion would be great - even if it's just saying whether you like the idea or disagree with it. Thanks. Falastur2 ^Talk 22:55, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Your results table template

Hey Claudio. Been using your results table template (the one now implemented in the Premier League season articles) for some other articles - most recently I was planning on adding it to Southern Football League 2008-09. You can see my attempts so far on one of my userpages. It's fine except for the second-bottom row of each table, which is coloured blue, breaking the blue and white stripes pattern. My guess is that this is because the template doesn't know how to handle 22-team tables yet, but I don't know how to fix this. (Incase you were going to ask, I did change the value to 22 in the top line of the code in my userpage, but that didn't work). Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated. Falastur2 ^Talk 20:13, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the template is not smart enough to automatically decide the background color. We have to inform to Fb r team template when the background should be colored, using the parameter bg. I've already fixed the Southern Football League 2008-09 as example. --ClaudioMB (talk) 20:39, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

FA Cup

I noticed your enquiry about how home teams are decided (from February 2006) and have added a few lines to clarify it under the venues section. Hope this helps. 03md (talk) 11:15, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for adding an explanation about the venue choice for FA Cup matches. --ClaudioMB (talk) 19:34, 19 September 2008 (UTC)