User talk:Bittersweetsmile

Welcome

Hello, Bittersweetsmile! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Wikipedia you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Happy editing! LeaveSleaves 17:22, 4 June 2009 (UTC) Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial • The five pillars of Wikipedia How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Pages needing attention • Peer review Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Roger Federer

Since you seem quite interested in improving the article, here are some suggestions should you wish to employ them.

1. Do not make large trimming edits. Bots or users might revert them noticing you as a new user.
2. Go through the years one-by-one. Make sure that details in all years are relative to tournaments played. Usually recent years are overly detailed, whereas early years may lack significant achievements.
3. Try and find reliable sources to cite the results as you go along. This would help in developing the article more fully.

Don't hesitate to ask for any help on the article's talk page or directly to me. I'll try and help you with the article as best as I can. ^LeaveSleaves 17:48, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Just a little tip. I noticed you are adding references to the article. I think this is very good, but the references are from Federer's site. Primary sources are usually discouraged without the presence of secondary sources. Try to find news sources for particular results and avoid using Federer's official site. See WP:RS, WP:BLP#Sources and WP:PSTS on how to rightly source the article. ^LeaveSleaves 21:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I suppose that makes sense. Federer's site has a nicer layout than the others but I will use the ATP site to make the references.Cheers, Bittersweetsmile (talk) 21:29, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Even ATP comes somewhat as a primary source (since it organizes/authorizes those tournaments). The best sources would be news sites: BBC, Reuters, AP, etc. ^LeaveSleaves 21:34, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree that the ATP source is perhaps somewhat a Primary one but I would argue that in this case it is more appropriate than a secondary one such as the news. Reading the guidelines it appears that they are avoided because "it is easy to misuse them". However as the source is being used "only to make descriptive claims" it would seem sensible using 'common sense' to chose the ATP as a source as opposed to possibly misinformed journalism, wouldn't you agree? Bittersweetsmile (talk) 15:29, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: Roger Federer Article: Use of Primary Sources

Using those sites for noting results and the like is fine. Wizardman 17:39, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Good work

		The Original Barnstar
		For cleaning up Brian David Josephson to provide more focus on his best-known work, the Josephson effect. - 2/0 (cont.) 18:32, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

TheTennisObserver

Bittersweet, could you please make the change we discussed about the Nadal rivalry? Unfortunately, I've been blocked from editing the Federer page. My "offense" consisted of changing the wording in the first paragraph of the article. It's a documented fact that numerous tennis legends and commentators - including Pete Sampras - consider Federer the "greatest" player ever, not "one of the greatest" as certain annoying partisan editors want readers to believe. I'm told that I violated the 3-revert rule. Anyway, thanks for your help. TheTennisObserver (talk) 12:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)TheTennisObserver

That is a shame! I would advise creating a user page. I'm not an expert on this but I think admins feel that if they don't have an easy way to communicate with you they can't really be bothered with you, if you do something to annoy them. I would help with trying to get your rights back but I doubt I have much sway at the moment! However, I think the change to the 'Nadal rivalry' is a positive one so I'll do that right away. Bittersweetsmile (talk) 13:18, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words and suggestion, Bittersweet. It looks like someone undid your "Nadal Rivalry" revision this morning (the person did not state a reason for doing so). If it's not too much of a bother, can you try again? I appreciate your help. TheTennisObserver (talk) 22:10, 12 June 2009 (UTC)TheTennisObserver

Yes I found out why - 'neutrality' again. However, someone suggested quite a smart thing so I'll do that today and you can see what you think. Bittersweetsmile (talk) 10:31, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand. It's actually misleading to note that Nadal owns a 13-7 head-to-head over Federer and leave it at that, because 9 of Nadal's 13 victories over Federer have come on clay, Nadal's best surface and Federer's worst. Someone reading that paragraph would naturally conclude that Nadal has demonstrated supremacy over Federer on all surfaces rather than just one. Thanks again. TheTennisObserver (talk) 16:33, 14 June 2009 (UTC)TheTennisObserver

Adoption

Hi there. Welcome to Wikipedia. Are you still seeking adoption? If you would like to be adopted, please ask my on my talk page. Thanks,  Cargoking  talk  16:09, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

First of all, do you need help with anything?  Cargoking  talk  16:47, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

A couple of minor things: How to clean-up references (in particular for the Brian Josephson page)for example but I mainly wanted adoption because I'm about to start work on the Fred Hoyle article and, seeing as he was quite a controversial character, wanted someone experienced who I could discuss things with and would be willing to put up with it! Bittersweetsmile (talk) 16:53, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

If we respond to each other on our own talk page (e.g I post you a message, you respond on mine), that would be great. For references go to my preferences, click on gadgets and tick refTools. Then press save. This feature allows you to properly cite sources. When editing it will appear up in the bar for bold, italics, links etc. I also find on pages for refs, instead of having <references/> put {{Reflist}}. Right then, you can discuss the latter one now. :-).  Cargoking  talk  17:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!

What I suggest you do, is you create User:Bittersweetsmile/Sandbox. Copy all content from Fred's page, and then you can do your editing there. When you are finished paste everything back to Fred's page. Do you see what I mean?  Cargoking  talk  17:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Of course! Talk soon.  Cargoking  talk  18:09, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

By the way, you might as well removed your adoption template.  Cargoking  talk  18:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

URL and Title are necessary. Reference name saves time when using one ref multiple times. Instead of reloading all the info, just use named ref. All others are optional. Any other questions, just ask!  Cargoking  talk  20:40, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

		Award of First Success
		Well done with your work!  Cargoking  talk

Someone thinks that Federer's Nicknames are too much!

I took and put all those that were in the discussion on Fed's talk page and someone said headlines are not nicknames. Well, that's how nicknames gets made! At least, I have sources to back it up, unlike Rafa's! TennisAuthority 21:37, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Question

Hi again! The "base citation" will work for the whole article. Just remember to use more than one source! Here to help,  Cargoking  talk  12:45, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

No, just bring it over. I will watch the page, and if any bot does anything I will revert it, with my rollback rights I got yesterday.  Cargoking  talk  20:35, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

It depends, my good friend. What is the the news source(s)?  Cargoking  talk  21:35, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Federer languages

As you will see if you look again, the language part has been butchered with someone removing the fact his first/main language is actually German. This has been happening for a long, long time. There are some anti-German bigots it seems that will go to whatever lengths possible to sequester that rather minor piece of information on Federer. Pretty petty and sad.66.190.29.150 (talk) 15:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Special Barnstar
		For passing on teachings from Wikipedia to another user, while still being adopted. You showed great inspiration to TheTennisObserver on using a sandbox. Thank you for your humbleness and keep up the good work!  Cargoking  talk

I was spying on you. (Sorry!) Well done!  Cargoking  talk  22:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Sources

They're all fine!  Cargoking  talk  19:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

If we could continue our conversations on User talk:Cargoking/Adoption/Bittersweetsmile, that would be great! Thanks,  Cargoking  talk  22:06, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Start Box Discussion!

I was just wanting to give you a heads up to let you know there's a discussion going on about the validity of these boxes, which I was wanting to give you and opportunity to weight into the conversation if you want to here's the link Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Tennis#Start_Boxes_Templates_for_Tennis_Player.3F TennisAuthority 18:15, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Please Revert First Paragraph of Federer Article

Hi Bittersweet. I noticed today (July 16) that the vandal "Zohair" has once again changed the wording of the first paragraph of the Roger Federer article. Can you please revert it for me? Thank you. TheTennisObserver (talk) 23:57, 16 July 2009 (UTC)TheTennisObserver

I was able to do it myself this time. A guy like Zohair changes the wording of the same paragraph every time he's here. I'm surprised he hasn't incurred a ban yet. TheTennisObserver (talk) TheTennisObserver

Fred Hoyle

It's me again! I know you are working away at Fred Hoyle at the moment. Just remember there have been some edits on the actual Fred Hoyle page. Don't forget to throw them in to your version before transferring it over! Thanks,  Cargoking  talk  16:28, 27 July 2009 (UTC)