User:Sukh/Revert War Evidence

This page is used to track significant changes in an on-going revert war.

Users Involved (Baddies!)

The truth (Talk / Contributions)

Happytime (Talk / Contributions)

Harprit (Talk / Contributions)

JacobCK (Talk / Contributions)

JusticeLaw (talk · contribs) added by skoosh (háblame) 15:10, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

70.177.166.200 (talk · contribs) added by skoosh (háblame) 15:19, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

User:172.188.252.146 added by Vivin --Vivin Paliath (വിവിന് പാലിയത്)

User:195.93.21.66 17:15, 15 October 2005. This is from an AOL proxy server, probably the same user using 172.x.x.x -- Nackie 17:05, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

User:172.215.109.209 16:57, 15 October 2005, all these 172.x.x.x addresses and variations are from an AOL account. -- Nackie 17:05, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Users Involved (Goodies!)

Sukh (Talk / Contributions)

Vivin (Talk / Contributions)

AMbroodEY (Talk / Contributions)

Skoosh (Talk / Contributions)

Wisesabre (Talk / Contributions)

Zora (Talk / Contributions)

Articles Involved

Sikhism Punjabi language Khalistan Hindi Urdu Hindustani Operation Blue Star Bollywood

Connecting User Edits

I have reason to believe that these users are all the same. I believe that anonymous IPs have also been used. This section aims to connect the users together due to very similar editing.

It may be possible that The truth and Happytime are not the same users because the editing style is not always consistent, however I'm pretty certain that the others are all the same user:

Connecting Happytime and Harprit

Edit by Happytime: [1]

Edit by Harprit: [2]

Connecting Happytime and The truth

Edit by Happytime: [3]

Edit by The truth: [4]

Connecting Happytime and JacobCK

Edit by Happytime: [5]

Edit by JacobCK: [6]

Connecting JacobCK and 70.177.166.200

Edit by JacobCK: [7]

Edit by 70.177.166.200: [8]

Connecting JusticeLaw and 70.177.166.200

Edit by JusticeLaw: [9]

Edit by 70.177.166.200: [10]

Connecting Thetruth and 172.188.252.146

Edits by 172.188.252.146: [11] follows the same pattern of edits done by TheTruth, which includes foul language and reverting of articles to a POV version.

Comment on User talk:Uncle G by JusticeLaw: [12]

Comment on Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection by 70.177.166.200: [13]

The truth

TODO: Add details of discussion with the user, attempts at resolution and problems with changes.

Happytime

TODO: Add details of discussion with the user, attempts at resolution and problems with changes.

What's going on at Hindi and Urdu language

Basically, we have a recalcitrant editor, Happytime (talk · contribs), who puts in POV edits attempting to erase the connections between Hindi and Urdu, and then refuses to even attempt to reach a consensus with the editors who disagree with him. Sukh and I have been taking turns reverting his edits, but he just won't give up. Most recently, he's taken to deleting critical comments entirely - see the history of Talk:Urdu language, and his own talk page. It's clear that he's not acting in good faith; it's not at all apparent that he has any interest in cooperating with other people. We're probably heading towards formal dispute resolution soon. --skoosh (háblame) 20:35, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Wisabre, User Sukh has been persistently reverting to some unreasonable edits. Much discussion took place and an outcome was reached, then Sukhinder Sukh (talk · contribs) wasn't satisfied so he decided to start a war. He has formed an alliance now with User Skoosh (talk · contribs) to add these pro-Sikh anti-Muslim anti-Hindu changes throughout multiple pages. These must be neutral and based on fact, not whims and desires. They keep reverting my changes. Please revert their erroneous edits.---Happytime

Anybody who knows anything about Hindi and Urdu realise that their separation is based on three factors: script, religion and politics. The vernacular version of Hindi and Urdu are the same language. A language is defined by the people that speak it - not by government or religious propaganda.

• that is wrong, A language is defined by the fundamentals. If you add something into a language, you can't call it the same language. It is true that at present times Urdu and Hindi are used mostly at professional levels. The slang that is mostly used however, (similar to what is used in Bollywood films) is referred to as Hindustani, which is a combination of languages.-----------Happytime

Also the user has been editing Sikhism and removing central parts of Sikh belief (i.e. reincarnation) and also making edits to Khalistan that are strikingly similar to edits made by User:thetruth (hence I believe the two users to be the same although I may be wrong).

• this is just getting out of hand, you need to stop these claims you are adding everywhere.

As an Urdu speaker yourself I hope you agree with me. There is definately the need to document 'higher' Hindi and Urdu which both draw from very different vocabularies. But 'higher' Hindi and Urdu is not the main tongue for people in Northern India/Pakistan. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 22:15, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

• These pages are title HINDI and URDU respectively. This refers to the original language, not slang. You could create a page called slang Hindi-Urdu, then I would have no disagreement.

I am not a native urdu or hindi speaker, but having spoken to many Indians and Pakistanis, I find no spectacular differences between the languages, other than the choice of words. Considering the history of the Hindusthani language, I agree with Sukh (talk · contribs) and Skoosh (talk · contribs). I don't see any pro/anti Muslim/Hindu thing here. Thanks. --Ragib 22:23, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

• many Indians and Pakistanis often view Bollywood films, because of this and the slang that has developed in these countries, what they speak is similar. If you were to use compelte Urdu and complete Hindi in their purest forms, they would be unintelligble to each other.---HT

To me Urdu might not even have slang cause most of the people who speak Urdu are well educated.I donot expect from them Slang urdu.

Urdu and Hindi have same origin.

The only way we could say that urdu and hindi are different if there grammer rules are different.basic hindi and urdu words are same and i dont know hindi grammer rules and i think it would b hard for you to find anyone who knows both grammer rules.الثاقب (WiseSabre| talk) 23:20, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Urdu and Hindi have IDENTICAL grammar [14]. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 23:30, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Gah.. HT has been readin a lot of stuff from "Pakistan Studies" lately as it seems. I'm not a native speaker of Hindi. I live in Britain and have Urdu friends and Hindi friends. Their grammar seems to be exactly same. AMbroodEY 09:32, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

--Added by الثاقب (WiseSabre| talk) 04:44, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi fellas, heres my analysis of HT's reverts. Pakistan for purpose of evolving a separate national identity from that of India's has for years tried to discredit any Hindu aspects in their culture. I believe the indoctrination is so complete that an average Pakistani believes that Urdu is not related to Hindi at all just like in Pakistan article they classify Pakistan in "Greater Middle East". He is merely writing what he believes to be true.I'm not saying that Indians dont spread their own agenda here but it is not so blatant. Somebody must sanitise this article as we've already reached a concensus on whether Hindi is closely related to Urdu or not. AMbroodEY 07:33, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Just my thoughts, you can ask a developer to do an IP check to see if that resolves the sock puppet issue. If not, you may need to file an RFC if you haven't already. Ignoring requests on their talk page to discuss is pretty damning, so try that first. In the meantine, just revert unhelpful edits that don't attempt to justify their reasoning or cite valid sources and be persistent. - Taxman ^Talk 19:14, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Harprit

TODO: Add details of discussion with the user, attempts at resolution and problems with changes.

Harprit seems to have physically threatened Zora on her talk page:

Zora, I don't know who you are and why you have created a Vendetta with me. You are NOT Indian and you don't speak Hindi. You are a moslem lady who lives in Hawai. Doesn't your religion teach you to be different from the disbelievers??? Then why are you so fascinated by Hindu Cinema. Why don't you come down to Bombay so we can show you how to really play Holi. Then you will understand that you shouldn't write about something you don't know. Thanks for the input!!--Harprit 03:41, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Emphasis added by me. --skoosh (háblame) 16:03, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

JacobCK

TODO: Add details of discussion with the user, attempts at resolution and problems with changes.

Notes

This section is so that I don't forget certain things!

Hindustani, Urdu and Hindi: no consensus, little discussion

Khalistan: no consensus, little discussion

Punjabi: Addition of Urdu to a list that already mentions Hindustani (being Urdu/Hindi)

Sikhism: Removal of reincarnation and reverting cosmetic changes and pictures for no reason

Deleting comments

Foul language in revert comments

Evidence Presented by Vivin Paliath

Pleaes note that the following information is a little dated.

Khalistan article

1. 06:05, June 15, 2005 - Removes NPOV template from Khalistan article without discussing it on the Talk page
2. 08:47, June 15, 2005 - Deletes information from the article and doesn't discuss it on the Talk page.
3. 10:24, June 15, 2005 - Adds POV information to the article.
4. 11:37, June 15, 2005 - Continues to add POV information.
5. 12:08, June 15, 2005 - Reverts a complete rewrite of the article to his own version (claims "pro-Indian bias") and adds a link to a POV reference. From this point on, he continually reverts to his own version.
6. 12:36, June 15, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.
7. 08:04, June 16, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.
8. 17:55, June 17, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.
9. 10:41, June 26, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.
10. 04:09, July 4, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.
11. 12:24, July 11, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.
12. 13:05, July 11, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.
13. 18:19, July 15, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.
14. 16:58, July 16, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.

KPS Gill article

1. 08:11, June 16, 2005 - Starts a POV article on KPS Gill.
2. 04:26, July 4, 2005 - Reverts my complete rewrite, claiming it to be "out of date". Doesn't explain why in the Talk page. From this point on, he continually reverts to his POV version.
3. 13:06, July 11, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.
4. 18:45, July 15, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.
5. 17:00, July 16, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.

Operation Blue Star article

1. 05:53, June 12, 2005 - Removes text and adds POV information.
2. 06:18, June 14, 2005 - Removes NPOV and Cleanup templates without discussing on the talk page.
3. 12:54, June 15, 2005 - Adds POV text to the article.
4. 10:46, June 26, 2005 - Reverts article to his POV version. From this point on, he keep reverting to this version.
5. 04:13, July 4, 2005 - Reverrts article to POV version.
6. 12:26, July 11, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.
7. 07:59, July 14, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version. Removes NPOV template.
8. 18:39, July 15, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version. Removes NPOV template.
9. 18:39, July 15, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.

Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale article

1. 19:36, June 13, 2005 - Removes TotallyDisputed sign. Adds POV information.
2. 12:53, July 11, 2005 - Claims a minor edit, but deletes large amount of text and adds his POV.
3. 18:41, July 15, 2005 - Reverts article to POV version.

Gatka article

1. 08:08, July 14, 2005 - Removes POV warning without discussing it on the talk page.
2. 17:03, July 16, 2005 - Removes POV warning again, without discussing it on the talk page.

Air India Flight 182 article

1. 11:45, June 15, 2005 - Deletes text, and adds links to POV sites indiasucks.netfirms.com and airindiabombing.com.

Bajrang Dal article

1. 12:28, June 15, 2005 - Adds POV text.

Pakistan article

1. 12:40, June 15, 2005 - Adds overhyped claims to article.

Indira Gandhi article

1. 08:57, November 7, 2004 - Claims "minor" changes, but adds POV image and POV text to article.

Vandalism by Thetruth

1. 18:30, July 15, 2005 - Vandalizes the Nair page. Probably because I wrote it, but that's speculation.
2. 18:36, July 15, 2005 - Vandalizes the Namboothiri page by deleting text. Probably the same reason as above.

--Vivin Paliath (വിവിന് പാലിയത്) 01:15, 24 September 2005 (UTC)