Template talk:Video game genre/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Addition

I added Political Simulation --El zoona 09:18, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Are you serious?

Would get anyone's dander up if I added Serious game to the genre template? — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:01, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

This was discussed and resolved elsewhere. Serious games are a type of game, not a genre. A serious game can be of almost any genre. — Frecklefoot | Talk 18:09, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
I think this should at least be included in the VGG category, if not the template itself. SharkD 05:02, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Add city building and real time strategy

Oops I just added City building (e.g., SimCity, Caesar, Pharoah) and was about to add Real time strategy (e.g., Empire Earth, StarCraft) but thought I'd halt and check. Where should this template be used? -- Sitearm | Talk 05:13, 2005 August 13 (UTC)

Western and Eastern RPG

Should there be a division in Role-Playing genre based on national origin? The subgenres of role-playing video games are Western RPG and Eastern RPG. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 01:22, 28 December 2006 The western RPG games are role play of western life.

Creation

I've searched a lot of articles and I have never found any article about computer games involving creating things, for example geneforge, you get to create creatures, and robot arena, where you get to create your very own robots. Can anyone create such an article?

Anonymous— Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.217.35.156 (talk) 12:21, 27 January 2007

I believe that these games (including Line rider) would fall under Simulation game. If you want to create an article about creation games register an account and find some good outside sources that make references to the game genera. —Dispenser 15:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Playstation

Why is there a Playstation genre? SharkD 02:26, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Types and platforms are not genres

I removed three entries in the template because they didn't belong there. Specifically, browser game, audio game and serious game. As above, a serious game is a type of video game, but not a genre (it can be of any genre). Likewise, an audio is a type of computer game, but not a video game at all! It uses audio as its main form of feedback, not video. It may have no video at all. It can be of any genre (action, adventure, etc.). And a browser game is simply a game played in a web browser. That's a platform, not a genre. If anyone disagrees with these removals, please discuss here. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 12:37, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed. SharkD (talk) 14:51, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

New look of template

Though I appreciate the structure of the new template look, the template is also huge and unwieldy. Also, the genre categories might well constitute original research. On what is the categorisation based? Further, I'm averse to significant edtis by unregistered users who doesn't even attach a note to very bold edits in a very significant and visible template. Miqademus 19:36, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the only registered users idea. 162.83.230.162 just came in here and centered everything (I assume just because he liked it that way). I reverted it (for now), because I found it harder to use. We can discuss it here first before making such a large change. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 17:44, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

i love the new template and think it is more organized than the alpha list from before but maybe someone could put driving game under the sports game category since it clearly is a subcategory of the racing game article... also sandbox game isn't really a genre... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.78.109 (talk) 04:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Board game

Should things like this be included in a template of video games? Gay15boy 09:58, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

If they are video game interpretations of the board game, sure. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 11:49, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


Problems with categories

Here are a few problems I've noticed:

  • Beat 'em up (Hack and slash) have totally different gameplay from fighting games. They really belong in action games. Kung Fu (beat em up action) is to Street Fighter (fighting) as Golden Axe (hack and slash action) is to Bushido Blade (weapon fighting).
  • There needs to be a place at the bottom for "other game attributes". These aren't genres, but fit in anyway. [[Sandbox (video games), browser games, and serious games. These are all cross-genre, like a "short movie", or "concept album" can be angy genre.
  • The simulation category is pretty questionable. All games simulate SOMETHING. Only a few of those genres have anything in common -- city building, economic simulation, god game... they're all about playing a management role. Dating sims and flight simulators are way out in left field and don't fit.
  • Dating sims are almost all like RPGs or adventure games. You play through a well regimented storyline. Very far away from SimCity or Railroad Tycoon.
  • Flight simulators are closer to racing games than anything else.
  • These criticisms might be easier to swallow if we start listing some genres twice. Action-adventure games clearly belong in both the action category and adventure category. Maybe dating sims come in too many different forms to put them in one simple category.

Let's try to be more organized about this. 64.231.195.228 05:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Categories are a royal bother. The problem is that they are an attempt to systematic organisation of a collection of items, items that themselves are mutually contradictory, straddles several categories, or even actively defies categorisation. Such categorisatoin has been tried before in the video game genres article, and was original research and messy.
Action and fighter games (which only contains one main item) could be merged, avoiding the need to make distinctive statements in the template.
"Casual games" is a very vague term, and the items of that could be moved into "other genres".
The "shooter" category is artificial and tries to contain both FPS games, lght gun games and traditional shoot'em ups, that is, games that are often classified as FPS, party and arcade etc.
"Online games" are not genres, they are specifiers to other genres, right? Is should go.
"Simulations", too difficult and arbitrary. Virtually all of these (city builders, tycoon games, God games, etc) are in the articles considered sub-genres of strategy games. "Simulation" is simply a too vague and ambiguous term to use for uncontroversial classification.
It seems to me that the problem is that we have a bunch of articles that lends to be used as headers in a taxonomy, but this usage is in fact a fallacy. I think this template should be reverted to the previous uncategorised version, which also took up less screen space, or reworked significantly.
Miqademus 13:33, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I like the current state of the template, and would not like to see it changed. Maybe the various simulation sub-genres should be removed from the strategy games article? SharkD 15:32, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Advergames and Educational games aren't genres--they're types. SharkD 03:01, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
The current layout has its problems, but the previous layout was much worse. I think the are a few main problems here, like how "Online games" are not really a genre. Neither are simulations games -- all games simulate something. Usually people mean "Construction and management simulations" when they refer to a "sim" game, and leave out adventure games like dating sims. I think the most obvious problem: shooter games and fighting games are just a specific form of action games.64.231.195.228 23:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

This template is currently based on original research

And is not in compliance with wikipedia policy. See WP:OR. It should be deleted, if not for the fact that I DID manage to find a reliable source. Namely, Andrew Rollings and Ernest Adams on Game Design. According to them, the breakdown is as follows:

  • Action games
    • Shooters
    • "Non-shooters" -- seems synonymous with platform games
    • (and spends some time separately focused on fighting games, in its talk about shooters, strangely enough)
  • Strategy games
  • Role-playing games
  • Sports games
  • Vehicle simulations (including flight simulations and tank sims)
  • Construction and management simulations
  • Adventure games
  • Artificial life
  • Puzzle Games
  • "Other genres"
  • Online games
    • Persistent worlds (seems synonymous with MMOs)

If there is any other viable research, we should incorporate it into this template. Otherwise, this will be the only reliable source upon which to base this template. 64.231.195.228 18:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

"(seems synonymous with MMOs)" That's original research! SharkD 05:49, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

How reliable source is that, when it says about shooters as fighting games? Hołek ҉ 13:04, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I might disagree the category names... but the actual form (the tree of categories) and the content (which games are included at each category in the tree) are pretty good. This book is clear that shooters, fighting games, and platform games are all action games, even if the details are debatable.
The sad reality is that there aren't very many reliable sources on this. But that does not make it ok to use original research. Original research leads to unreliable or frivolous categories, and lots of edit wars. So far, this is the best resource I've been able to find, because it's actually a published book that's pretty recent. That's what wikipedia policy would indicate. 64.231.195.228 19:40, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
See here for additional (and contradictory) methods of classifying games. There is very little consensus among these sources. I doubt that we can rely upon them to provide a good model. SharkD 00:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Twitch game

Should twitch game be added? It's a video game genre on the level of sandbox game; e.g., it's a gameplay aspect that is found across all sorts of different genres and binds these games together. SharkD (talk) 15:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think sandbox game belongs in there either. Twitch cuts across many genres. It's more of a type of gameplay than a genre of game. It's not a genre, the same way that "paperback book" or "30 minute short film" are not genres. 65.95.157.129 (talk) 04:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Here are some articles which say that "Sandbox" is a genre (though some of the articles mix it together with a few different terms): [1], [2], [3], [4]. SharkD (talk) 09:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
This Google search brings up a handful of reliable sources calling "Twitch" a genre. I'm sure there are a few others that this query didn't catch. Maybe a "Related topics" section should be added to the template to list such types of games? SharkD (talk) 09:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
What about 7 Day Roguelikes? Is that a genre? :) SharkD (talk) 09:13, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
We need a separate article, List of video game types to contain all this terminology and keep the genres list as a representation of different gameplay styles. Every time I go poking around I find more articles discussing video games in ways which don't fit into the genre list. The proliferation of these articles is great, the encyclopedia's growing and our coverage of the entire gaming industry is growing ever more extensive. However, we've not kept up to speed in laying out suitable lists/cats/temps as well as referencing, until a good home is found for them and a consistent hierarchy is laid down we're going to be playing the hokey-cokey with the genre list. Please dump any genres/types at User:Someone another/Genres suggested layout if I've missed them.Someone another 15:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Added

I added MMOTBS, MMOTPS, and MMORP.--Xgmx (talk) 00:20, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Sports

"Sports games" is a genre, that I agree with, but that individual sports, like "american football" and "golf" etc, would constitute genres is more problematic (even in fact, quite ludicrous). The links there now only goes to lists of games of the type and not to artcles about genres, which is freakin' fugly. Therefore I've moved "sports" to "other genres". Miqademus (talk) 00:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

This issue was discussed (?) here, BTW. Thanks for the input! SharkD (talk) 06:30, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Online games

"Online games" is not a genre, it is a specification. I moved the category to "related terminology". As for the entries, MMORPG I set as a subgenre under CRPGs, MMORTS I moved under RTS, and MMOFPS I put under shooter alongside FPS. Miqademus (talk) 15:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know. I can see why you'd want to split them up in this way. However, it is quite common to call online games genres (Google results for "MMO" and "genre"), and it seems it would be easier to sort them in this way. MMO or (MMOG), in particular, is seen as a super-category for MMORPG, MMORTS, MMOTBS, etc. Also, the Andrew Rollings and Ernest Adams on Game Design book, mentioned above, specifically calls online games a genre. SharkD (talk) 19:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
From chapter 21 of Andrew Rollings and Ernest Adams, and their new book: "Online gaming is a technology rather than a genre; a mechanism for connecting players together rather than a particular pattern of gameplay." See online sample chapter at [5]. Randomran (talk) 19:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, my principal objection is that basically all games today are "online" (though we all know that terms has very little to do with genre contents), and it feels a bit strange classing "online RTSs" and "online FPSs" separate from "RTSs" and "FPSs". However, I am now arguing from reason rather then any particular insight into these particular MMO game types. Miqademus (talk) 19:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

"By Purpose"

Removed this category. It was ad-hoc, non-distinct and utterly arbitrary, as well as totally unsubstantiated original research. I moved all contents from the category into "other genres", where they belong, if at all. Miqademus (talk) 15:52, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Vehicular simulation category

This category contains sub-entries for individual vehicle types. This seems superfluous, are vehicle types really genres in their own right? Flight simulator is, and is the Space Simulation pages are every brought into a semblance of order, then it too will be, but train and submarine sims? They are linked prominently in the "Vehicular simulator" main article, isn't that enough to avoid cruft links? Miqademus (talk) 15:52, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Collapsed

I suggest that this navbox always appear in collapsed state by default. It's kind of big, and readers can always click on the "show" button if they want to read it. SharkD (talk) 06:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Genres?

So I am wondering does this need template need to have 2 sections (?possible with collapsible navbox).

Methods

  • Games (without Stories)
  • Games (with Stories)

Because game genres are suppose to roughly the same as the method use to categorize books. (e.g. Adventure, Horror, Thrillers...etc.) You look at Super Mario Bros., the infobox says the Genres is Platform game. That is incorrect, we all know that saving the prince usually is an adventure game not platform game.

Interactions and Genres

Actions, RPG, Shooters (FPS, TPS), RTS, Simulations...etc are forms of interaction to the stories. Narrative Games or Game with a story are very similar to Books, see below for explanations.

  • to enjoy the book, you follow the elements of genre
  • to enjoy the game, you follow the elements of genre

(e.g. Mysteries, find clues (in books) or find items (in games)) (e.g. Situation creates suspense in both books and games (books use words, game uses scary, nerve wracking, chilling, audio))


Positive Sides Encourage Development in

  • Subfields of Interaction, Technical Interest
  • Reduce conflicts.
  • Easier to find articles and understand them.

Also I think categorizing this way will clear up a lot of mysteries in gaming, such as what is MMOARPG. See below. Before while I was reading MMOARPG it confuses me so long not knowing the difference between genres and forms of interaction, since most Wikipedia don't have them. But then I realize what it was, Action RPG is just an extended fields or subfields of RPG, because if you think "Action" are just a form of interaction, you use weapons, skills (e.g. jump, roll, think of it as in Diablo).

Categories, I think the reasons some games don't have stories is because they are directed at difference audiences

  • Actions (Street Fighters)
?fan-orientated (anime, magna, cartoons characters)
  • Simulations
?Hobbies and Interest (people who like collecting, playing airplane / trains models)

In addition, you can also add game culture like game conventions (e.g. BlizzCon), internet cafe events, roleplaying (cosplay), pop culture (one character in a franchise of multiple games)

e.g. Bomberman (Crazy Arcade, Bubble Fighter, Crazyracing Kartrider)


Temporary Ideas

  • Navbox with Collapsible Groups
  • Games Topics: Genre, Culture, Forms of interaction
  • Resource
    • List of games


Try not to negative about this, because games right now are educational, flexible entertainment (allowing players to view the world of their favorite novel e.g. Lord of the Rings)...etc and you too can be positive. If you are really interested in Genres. See Twilight (Thrillers, meaning using multiple genres) and Template:Speculative fiction all.

Imagine the future world of gaming where each elements of literature can be playable and maybe tangible in reality. Too farfetched? That is only if you don't know how to utilize your resources. I have already found how to use Applied Philosophy in reality, and the evidence exist in Wikipedia, so you can do the same for gaming. Good luck. --75.154.186.241 (talk) 02:55, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

  • It's an interesting idea, and makes a lot of sense. I know that having done a lot of reading for these articles, I have my own ideas about how they should be organized, and how categories should be split. But nothing in Wikipedia is ever what you or I want it to be. The main standard we have for inclusion is WP:VERIFIABILITY, which basically requires us to based everything in reliable publications. And reliable publications largely organize them like this, and don't really focus on narrative. Adventure games, for example, are about the type of gameplay found in the 1979 computer game Colossal Cave Adventure than it is about any game with an adventure in it -- which is what reliable sources on the topic say. Randomran (talk) 04:03, 6 April 2009 (UTC)


Christian games

Is NOT a genre, the christian games page itself says so. --81.236.0.44 (talk) 13:25, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

It's listed as a 'related concept'. What's wrong with that? SharkD  Talk  20:55, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Open world

I don't think Open world is an action-adventure genre. A game could just as well be a non-action turn-based game and still have an open world. The same goes for Serious game. Agreement? SharkD  Talk  20:56, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Artillery games are misplaced, too. There are no tactics; all you do is point and shoot. I would rather put them under "Strategy" or "Other genres". SharkD  Talk  21:58, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I thought I was the only one. Agree that open world is more a style of gameplay that appears across genres. Serious game is more of a type of game, like online game or advergame, than a genre. Both belong in "related concepts". Not sure what to do about artillery. What do the sources say? Personally Im seeing a lot of game play and tropes sneaking in here without being genres. Hack n slash is one (it's a type of gameplay, or an insulting term to describe a dull game), dungeon crawl is another. I'd drop both of those from the template entirely. 74.198.9.157 (talk) 02:33, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
The term hack 'n slash is bit of a pain... It has been used to define the genre of old beat-em-ups-with-weapons, such as Golden Axe or Dynasty Warriors, and in this sense it's covered in the broader Beat 'em up article. It is also -as you note- used to describe the general gameplay of those games, more complicated action games such as Devil May Cry or God of War, or indeed non-video games (e.g. paper D&D), and that is covered in the actual Hack and slash article. I'm not sure whether having the term next to the beat 'em up link is a helpful clarification, or unhelpful as it leads somewhere that doesn't cover the genre directly. bridies (talk) 10:34, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
I wouldn't remove them from the template entirely. There already are categories in the template for borderline cases, or cases where the mechanic in question can exist in multiple genres. SharkD  Talk  18:27, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
I agree on open world. I think placing it there has arisen out of angst at the "pejorative" naming of the Grand Theft Auto clone article and is a sideways attempt to usurp it (half-arsed attempts to change the title or at least the lead of that article having failed). I wouldn't be surprised if "Grand Theft Auto clone" is out of date, at least as the most common name for the whole genre, but until someone goes systematically through the research again it has to stay like that. bridies (talk) 10:34, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Good moves on open world and serious game. I'd still prefer to get rid of hack n slash and dungeon crawl, as the articles are more about gameplay concepts across genres than they are about genre. (And to the extent they are used to describe genres, it's sort of a lazy shorthand.) But if there's honestly no consensus for that, I suppose "related concepts" is a good place for it. It strikes me as though a lot of the other concepts are just other non genre ways of classifying games, like text based games. Maybe we need a separate navigation template for this? 74.198.9.157 (talk) 22:15, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
I think the dungeon crawler genre is Roguelike, at least that's how the articles are written. Moved it accordingly. I'm on the fence about hack and slash, no preference. bridies (talk) 09:39, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
I would support placing Hack and Slash and Dungeon Crawler in the "related concepts" section instead of removing them entirely. SharkD  Talk  20:15, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
It's been a pleasure working with all of you. Glad we could form a consensus. Only thing I'd say is that the related concepts section is getting pretty large, just compared to the actual genres themselves. I'm tempted to prune it, but I suspect that would just cause more problems with people adding them back in as genres when they aren't really defined classes of gameplay. (There's some various gameplay tropes, some games classified by their agenda, and some games classified by their technology. None are genres.) Perhaps we should discuss classifyingthese related concepts so it isn't just a pile of miscellaneous links. 74.198.9.206 (talk) 17:53, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Cleanup (concerning Artillery game)

Hi, this template may require cleanup. The classification of Artillery game is not clear. In this navigation the Artillery games are part of the Turn-based tactics (a sub-genre of the Strategy video games)? In contrast to this in the Template:VG Strategy Artillery games are classified as an own sub-genre of Strategy video games beside of Turn-based tactics. So what is right? Thanks and best regards, W like wiki (talk) 12:56, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Turn-based tactics is the more correct classification, as the games require varied changes in play based on the moves that have been made so far, using a turn-based system. --Liftmoduleinterface (talk) 18:25, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Game or no game?

I've noticed that some of the genres listed here have "game" in the title while some don't. In some cases, this makes complete sense, such as with interactive movie, beat 'em up, visual novel, "clones" and any kind of simulator. Besides those cases, the template is rather inconsistant: "Racing game" vs "Stealth", "Music game" vs "Party", "Sports game" vs "Action role-playing", etc. Let's decide which we go for here. I'd suggest removing the word "game" in genre names in this template, but not in related concepts. ~Maplestrip (chat) 13:43, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

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