Template talk:Israel–Hamas war

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Israel

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Combatants[edit]

Shouldn't there be links to articles like Hamas, Israel Defense Forces, Nukhba in this template? Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 14:09, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New format[edit]

ElijahPepe, I don't think it is an improvement to simply copypaste the format at Template:Russian invasion of Ukraine into here. It is not necessarily the ideal format for other conflicts, and we had one collapsible section of this template with two articles and another with four. We should use collapsible sections when not doing so renders the navbox way too long to be read easily; with sections of two and four articles we're not there yet. Your edits also left a lot of empty space in general in the template. I am not opposed to adding back some of the links you had added. And personally I disagree with not listing casualties, but I'd like to hear other editors' opinion on this too. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 19:16, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Aner Shapira[edit]

A member of an armed force is not a civilian, no matter if he is in a uniform or not. Synotia (moan) 08:37, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cluttering[edit]

Lau737, please stop adding these unrelated links to the template. This template is for the Israel–Hamas war. Not for general judicial terms that apply to dozens of past and current military conflicts and not only. We can't include anything slightly related to everywhere. These links also provide no informational value. Many of them don't even discuss this conflict. It's just clutter. We already have articles of this kind specifically about this war or about the wider Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Super Ψ Dro 12:51, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No you don't, otherwise I would have added these to Israeli-Palestinian conflict template. When people talk about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, all they talk about is "Ethnic conflict," "Ethnic cleansing," "Social cleansing," "Structural violence" this and inhumane blockade that. When the Palestinians talk about it, all these things are true, up to and including genocide. The terms must be included! Lau737 (talk) 12:59, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All of that looks like your own view and perspective. Other people could also say that X random article is also related because "people talk about them" related to the conflict. I don't see how this is a quantifiable or demonstrable criterion. In any case, we have specific articles. See Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza and Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel, Israeli settler violence, Palestinian freedom of movement, Israel and apartheid, Sexual and gender-based violence against Palestinians during the Israel–Hamas war, War crimes in the Israel–Hamas war. These articles, either by themselves or along with other articles, tangentially or directly address these topics in the context of the Gaza war or the wider conflict. We don't need to add both the general and the specific articles. What are we supposed to get from adding Ethnic conflict and Ethnic violence, both of which are already very similar as well as very general, and which are pretty much a definition of the logically already linked Israel-Palestinian conflict? By the way, there is no consensus in Wikipedia for undisputedly referring to the events in Gaza as genocide. Super Ψ Dro 13:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic conflict and Ethnic violence were there for flair, the same being true for Communal violence. Extrajudicial killing, Ethnic cleansing, Social cleansing, Population cleansing, Collective punishment, Political cleansing of population weren't there for flair, they were important terms that shouldn't be excluded.

What you did on the Israel-Hamas war campaignbox template was worse: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ACampaignbox_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war&diff=1210491233&oldid=1210418579 You removed the Killing of journalists in the Israel–Hamas war article alongside the articles mentioned above. What good did that do?

I have a large number of credible sources emphasizing the importance of the terms you removed:

Extrajudicial killing:

https://apnews.com/article/palestinians-detained-israel-hamas-gaza-war-0ecbc338e4024add059b87b38022086d

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-west-bank-gaza-war-east-jerusalem-shooting-army-23338c903c08bdd3e5fade3e2a048ab1

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/23/middleeast/kamal-adwan-hospital-gaza-israel-abuse-allegations-intl-cmd/index.html

Ethnic cleansing

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/01/05/wv-israel-hamas/

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/un-expert-warns-new-instance-mass-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-calls

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/11/13/23954731/genocide-israel-gaza-palestine

Collective punishment

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2020/07/israels-collective-punishment-palestinians-illegal-and-affront-justice-un

https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15473.doc.htm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/13/israel-hamas-gaza-war-crimes

"Social cleansing" just follows from the accusations of genocide. "Population cleansing" follows from accusations of bullying Palestinians off the land. "Political cleansing of population" follows from attempts to move Palestinians who are members of Hamas off the land.

Regards Lau737 (talk) 15:36, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I said not anything even distantly related to the conflict has to be on the template. Earth is also distantly related and it shouldn't be included. All of those general articles are either discussed in other pages on the template or have specific Israeli-Palestinian conflict pages of their own. My edits were thanked by two other editors. One of those reverted your reverts of me. I don't see consensus for inclusion of these terms in the template. Because it's not necessary. Super Ψ Dro 14:01, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And why did "Killing of journalists in the Israel–Hamas war" have to go? Did your finger slip?

I am not about to link every article from "War" to "Missile," but yes, the most straightforward articles, articles that would otherwise be overlooked, should be included.

Have you read any of the articles? This is just as unreasonable as barring "Lynching" from the Civil rights movement template, or "Rape" from the Genocide template. Lau737 (talk) 16:21, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stop speaking like this, you've already been warned for your tone by several other users [1]. Yes, my finger "slipped", I accidentally removed that list, apologies for that. Look, it is clear we disagree on this. I advise you to seek dispute resolution measures. You can use WP:RfC, WP:3O, or other methods mentioned at WP:DISPUTE, I will participate on them. I think the burden is on you as you're the one proposing a change and because my reverts of those changes have been supported by two other editors. And genocide is a construct, it makes perfect sense that it is full of theorical concepts and definitions. You don't see lists of general definitions on events. At least I don't on Template:Civil rights movement. Lynching in particular started precisely on the US, at least the term, so it is justified as I see it that it is included. None of the terms you mentioned started with this conflict. I don't see any particular reason for including these general terms that apply to many conflicts in the template of this one. Super Ψ Dro 17:07, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will do just that! Lau737 (talk) 14:59, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should Nicaragua v. Germany be listed alongside the South Africa v. Israel court case?[edit]

Nicaragua v. Germany seems like an important court case that is related to this conflict. Shouldn't it be in this template alongside the South Africa v. Israel court case? JasonMacker (talk) 21:09, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 April 2024[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Adding Yitzhar Hofman into the list of Israeli security forces killed in the Israel-Hamas War template MF4412 (talk) 01:45, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done Wikishovel (talk) 19:22, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]