Template:Did you know nominations/Toys for Bob

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 18:08, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Toys for Bob

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~~... that the game studio Toys for Bob has created multiple award-winning titles, including the Star Control series, The Horde, and the Skylanders franchise?~~
- ALT1:~~... that the game studio Toys for Bob created the award-winning Star Control series, and the billion dollar Skylanders franchise?~~
- ALT2:~~... that Fred Ford and Paul Reiche founded the game studio Toys for Bob after meeting at Greg Johnson's house for a game night~~, with Star Control as their first project~~?~~
- ALT3:~~... that game developer Toys for Bob created Star Control after its founders ~~Fred Ford and Paul Reiche~~ met at Greg Johnson's house for a game night?~~

Comment: Threw a few suggested options and still open minded about what to say. Willing to work on this.

Improved to Good Article status by Shooterwalker (talk). Self-nominated at 03:01, 31 August 2020 (UTC).

Review in progress. Bait30 ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 21:17, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing: - Star Control II being one of the greatest games of all time is a challengeable statement, so it should be sourced in the lead per MOS:CITELEAD.
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited: - ~~ALT0 and ALT1 have issues because the article doesn't state what awards were earned by Star Control or Skylanders~~. Skylanders being billion dollars is sourced. ALT2 and ALT3 have an issue because that info is sourced to a two hour long Ars Technica interview on Youtube and I don't think it's reasonable for me or anyone reading the article to have to figure out where in the interview it's mentioned.
Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Some not so minor issues concerning hook citation. Also, it would be helpful if you linked the source next to the proposed hooks. For example, see Template:Did you know nominations/Riyaz Naikoo. Bait30 ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 21:54, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

The cites exist but I can see the need to clear them up. I can find time stamps from the video, and I can even add a source to the lead. Should I add those to the article somehow? Or should I take my cues from Template:Did you know nominations/Riyaz Naikoo and just bring them directly to your attention in this discussion? Thanks for your patience. Shooterwalker (talk) 17:33, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Definitely add to the article, that's more important. I was just asking you to also add them here next to the hook to make it easier for me or other reviewers. It's sort of standard around here to do that. I found in the article where Star Control's award is mentioned and it's cited so that's good. I also found where it says Skylanders won awards, but it's unsourced in the lead. So at this point, ALT1 is the closest to being approved because everything about the hook is good, it's just the article that would need to be worked on. Bait30 ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 17:50, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

I added sourcing for "greatest game" and some awards in the lede. I also added a quote from the YouTube video to the refs in the article, which I'm also attaching here.^[1] I appreciate your patience as I'm still trying to figure out best practices for citing, both in the article and at DYK. I wish YouTube would let you directly link to their transcripts -- but for future reference, you can click on the "..." at YouTube to open it. You'll find the quote from the 7-8 minute mark of the video. I'll keep working on this until I've ironed out any other errors or omissions. Just let me know. Shooterwalker (talk) 14:24, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

It looks good now! All hooks are good, though I prefer ALT3 the most. I struck-out some of the hooks to make them snappier. Bait30 ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 17:24, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Awesome! I prefer having the names of the devs in there (they've done a lot of talks with the fans over the years and they are almost more recognizable than the studio itself), but I don't object to striking it either. Either way, I'm good to proceed with ALT3. Shooterwalker (talk) 19:24, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi, I came by to promote this, but I really don't understand the point of using Johnson's name and not the other developers. The other hooks are much too PR-y. Why don't you write a hook about the reason for the name "Bob"? You have a few good reasons in the article. Yoninah (talk) 00:00, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

I just felt there were too many blue links and it wasn’t snappy enough. I thought those were the easiest ones to remove without too much editing. I know you’re more experienced, so you can unstrike them if you prefer. Bait30 ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 16:54, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

I'd prefer to unstrike them. If it gives more context, we could say "Starflight creator Greg Johnson". Star Control / the people involved are a strong hook based on the fandom, IMO. Shooterwalker (talk) 17:02, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

OK. So we're going with:
ALT3a:... that game developer Toys for Bob created Star Control after its founders Fred Ford and Paul Reiche met at Starflight creator Greg Johnson's house for a game night?
Restoring tick for ALT3 per Bait30's review. Yoninah (talk) 18:06, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

References

^ Sean Dacanay, Marcus Niehaus (July 7, 2020). "Star Control Creators Paul Reiche & Fred Ford: Extended Interview". Ars Technica. Retrieved August 6, 2020. Ford: I went to the Silicon Valley and I worked for some graphics companies. I did that for a few years, I was in the wilderness and eventually I said, why am I not doing something I like versus something I think I should be doing? And so the company I worked that, there was a couple of mutual friends, two people who grew up with Paul, they knew I wanted to leave and they knew Paul needed a partner and so they introduced us to each other. Reiche: Yeah, we were going to a game night, board game night at Greg Johnson's house, and Greg's one of the designers of "Starflight" and "ToeJam & Earl" and "Orly Draw-Me-A-Story" and a ton of great games. Anyway, he had a regular game night at his house and so we sort of had a blind date there and decided, yeah, let's start working on this game.

[1] Sean Dacanay, Marcus Niehaus (July 7, 2020). "Star Control Creators Paul Reiche & Fred Ford: Extended Interview". Ars Technica. Retrieved August 6, 2020. Ford: I went to the Silicon Valley and I worked for some graphics companies. I did that for a few years, I was in the wilderness and eventually I said, why am I not doing something I like versus something I think I should be doing? And so the company I worked that, there was a couple of mutual friends, two people who grew up with Paul, they knew I wanted to leave and they knew Paul needed a partner and so they introduced us to each other. Reiche: Yeah, we were going to a game night, board game night at Greg Johnson's house, and Greg's one of the designers of "Starflight" and "ToeJam & Earl" and "Orly Draw-Me-A-Story" and a ton of great games. Anyway, he had a regular game night at his house and so we sort of had a blind date there and decided, yeah, let's start working on this game.

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