The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 16:45, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
... that fifteen French generals died in a period of less than seven weeks in 1914 (memorial pictured)? Source: See list (and main source - Gehin) in article. It's actually 6 weeks, 2 days or something starting with Raffenel
Overall: Overall a compelling read. The article shows that the editor has a very good grasp of the subject. I checked the sources and I have one comment regarding the following passage: "There were only two general officer ranks in the French Army. Army corps and divisions were commanded by générals de division (equivalent to major-generals) and brigades by générals de brigade (brigadier-generals)." I believe the plural form of général is généraux, correct me if I am wrong. Also, I don't know if I missed it, but the distinction between généraux de division and généraux de brigades is not evident in the cited source. I don't believe this detail is lost in translation. If this is the case, can you provide and additional source to back this up? The sources backup both hooks.
Both hooks are interesting; I will leave it to the DYK curators to choose which one to include. I will happily promote the nomination when the above are addressed. el.ziade (talkallam) 17:38, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for the review el.ziade. The plural of général is indeed généraux (my schooltime French teacher would be mortified!). I've drawn from a couple of sources to explain the roles of the two ranks and expanded a little to explain why so many were comparatively elderly. Hopefully what I've written makes sense - Dumelow (talk) 20:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
@Dumelow: Can you please verify the cited pages number in [Joffre's biography]? The book's page count is 214; you cite pages 320. el.ziade (talkallam) 09:04, 22 December 2022 (UTC) It would really help if you could quote the cited passage verbatim here. Just doing due diligence.el.ziade (talkallam) 09:07, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
Hi el.ziade I was working from the Google preview which I think must use the pages from the e-book version, rather than the hardback. I've ordered a copy of the book as it looks quite interesting anyway and will update the page numbers once it arrives (probably in the new year). The part of the book I'm relying on reads "In August 1914, the French army required about 160 généraux de division and 260 généraux de brigade. The first were to lead the armies, army corps and divisions, and the second just the brigades. Included in these statistics are the generals needed for cavalry, artillery or engineer commands, and for the staffs. Yet the numbers of those available were just 120 généraux de division and 220 généraux de brigade. The shortfall had to be filled by using reservists, yet these were inevitably elderly since the age limits for active service were 60 years for colonels (some of whom commanded brigades), 62 for généraux de brigade and 65 for généraux de division. Many of these older officers were physically unfit and had long since give up horse-riding". I'm hoping to expand the article a bit in the new year with detail from La Liste de Foch: Les 42 généraux morts au champ d'honneur, which discusses the generals killed in action. I'm waiting for a copy to arrive but it's in French only so will take me a bit of time to read! - Dumelow (talk) 09:51, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for the above. I got the same page number myself in the address bar. I think it's alright to keep it until you get your hands on a hard copy. Everything checks out. el.ziade (talkallam) 10:29, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
I see so few lists here I had to check the WP:DYKCRIT. Also I cannot find ALT0 in the article, and I searched. So I will promote ALT1.Bruxton (talk) 23:53, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
@Dumelow: Sorry, to help our readers we probably need to have a hook that explains that the war ended in 1918, and that is why it is curious that these Generals died for France in 1923. Also if you can help me understand the first hook, it is not explicit in the article and I am not sure I should have to hunt down the pieces and put it together. Thanks Dumelow. Bruxton (talk) 00:06, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Hi Bruxton. How about (the last clause could be removed for brevity):
The first hook is based on the table. If you sort by date and begin on 22 August 1914 with the first death in the war (Raffenel), you'll find a further 14 generals (Rondony, Diou, Deffontaines, Plessier, Bataille, Dupuis, Barbade, Marquet, Rousseau, Grand D'Esnon, Battesti, Bridoux, Roques, Sibille) who died between then and 27 September - Dumelow (talk) 09:42, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Overall a compelling read. The article shows that the editor has a very good grasp of the subject. I checked the sources and I have one comment regarding the following passage: "There were only two general officer ranks in the French Army. Army corps and divisions were commanded by générals de division (equivalent to major-generals) and brigades by générals de brigade (brigadier-generals)." I believe the plural form of général is généraux, correct me if I am wrong. Also, I don't know if I missed it, but the distinction between généraux de division and généraux de brigades is not evident in the cited source. I don't believe this detail is lost in translation. If this is the case, can you provide and additional source to back this up?