Talk:William Jesse Ramey

This article was nominated for deletion on 11 February 2011. The result of the discussion was keep.

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I was intending to write several BIOs of some of the more famous Fish decoy carvers since Wikipedia has NO information on the art form. This was the first BIO I had published and I was going to add a bit more details about the specifics of each artist - but just hadn't gotten to it yet - so I've made certain my userpage has all of the info. (in case you do decide to proceed with deletion)

I guess I'm not understanding what the problem is with this article in particular. This article contains more details and citations than the vast majority of other artists listed under category Folk Artists - Category:Folk artists. (see Sam Doyle or Justus DaLee or Edgar Tolson - or etc..... )

Can you provide specific examples of what you consider to be articles that DO meet the criteria you are looking for - it would be especially helpful if they could be artists so that I can easily compare and understand what criteria is necessary to add.

Thanks Birdfarmer (talk) 13:32, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The main problem with this article is that is does not show by means of independent sources that this person was noted or notable beyond a very small ground of people. E.g. the article says "His production was mainly for personal usage and for friends" or "Ramey primarily carved decoys for himself and some friends." which doesn't really indicate that he was widely known nor that his work was in widespread use.

As for sources: These must be readily available and published. You cannot use unpublished sources. Nor should you use books written by close family members, e.g. "unpublished family history by William Jesse Ramey's grandaughter - Connie Barber." as these are not necessarily considered reliable. Travelbird (talk) 14:19, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

ok - Since I don't have the books in front of me - I can't update it today, but I can provide the page numbers (in the books listed) that reference him and provide examples of his art. He is also referenced in some other articles that I have copies of. - - This (and some other details I can provide) I hope will show that his work is s highly sought after in the collectors market that has been established after his death.

I understand about unpublished works of family members being not "readily available" to the average researcher - but they ARE often times the only method of obtaining biographical information. This information has been provided to me "verbally" by several resources - but the only written copy I have is from the unpublished history (and thus was the reason I cited the document). I will remove the citation if you prefer.

Thanks again Birdfarmer (talk) 14:42, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

One of the key principles of Wikipedia is verifiability, facts stated in articles have to be verfiable. That doesn't mean that sources have to be online, but they have to exist in a form that someone, if interested, could go to the source and verify. That's why unpublished sources and family history/reminiscences are not reliable. On balance, the article does, I think, credibly indicate importance or significance, so I will be bold and remove the speedy tag. This does not mean that the article will not be subject to deletion by other processes, such as WP:PROD or WP:AFD. – ukexpat (talk) 14:49, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a good deal of more info - I'm hoping that this is sufficient to show "notability". If so I can start on some of the other articles of Fish Decoy carvers that I was planning on writing. Let me know what you think Thanks Birdfarmer (talk) 00:32, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would go ahead, but create them as drafts in user space first, using User:Birdfarmer/Name of article here as he format for the subpage (substituting "Name of article here" with the name of the person). There you can work on it at your own pace without fear that it will be deleted. – ukexpat (talk) 17:32, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]