Talk:White mutiny

I am thinking about deprodding, but not certain this text is a helpful start on the article we should have. This is a legitimate topic, the major historical one (which I'd guess named the concept) occured in India during British colonial rule. This description appears to be based on Robert A. Heinlein's book The Number Of The Beast, which probably popularized the concept for WWII and beyond generations more than anything else. GRBerry 01:53, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be happy to see it deprodded (since I'm the one that prodded it) if a legit article can be generated. Probably would be better to start from scratch, though. Akradecki 02:06, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm[edit]

I submitted it.

The text is written from personal knowledge and experience. Though both of your references in the discussion were essentially correct.

I saw the reference to it in Indian rebellion of 1857 where it was unlinked and left hanging.

The reference to the description being from Robert A. Heinlein is possibly accurate due to my heavy reading of his works as a youth. However, it was not my primary source and I last read that book at least 25 years ago.

I thought I'd add what I knew so that readers of the rebellion article wouldn't be left hanging. I botched linking it correctly though and was going to discuss it with someone today. I feel that it should exist as a concept, however it might be incomplete as it exists. Adding references to the Indian rebellion and to Robert A. Heinlein would perhaps make it more substantial. Xromad 15:54, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I see you've wikilinked both of these as sources. Please be aware that our guideline on reliable sources say that Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Please do take the time to find some reliable sources to use instead. Also, any editor, is free at any time to remove the prod tag, including the original author (yourself). The core policy Wikipedia:No original research means that we really shouldn't be writing from our personal knowledge, though I certainly did it in my first article. I've gone back since and added some sourcing to that one, and hope that you will do so here. GRBerry 16:14, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I intend to find some references to post. It may take me a few days. I'm going to try to get ahold of the book I cited in "References in popular culture" to see if it will work. Xromad 16:50, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have Peter Stanley's book White Mutiny: British Military Culture in India on order from the Inter Library Loan. I'll update according to what I find when it gets here 207.250.183.38 14:39, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Now reading White Mutiny: British Military Culture in India. I'll post updates once I finish. Xromad 20:36, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Still lots of room for improvement, but hopefully this is now a much better article. Xromad 19:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely better, but looks too much like a policy violation, either by being original research or a copyright violation. Please work to improve this.GRBerry 20:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Naming[edit]

I think this page should be renamed the "east india company army's war of independence" as only a fraction of the army was involved JUST like the indian population during the mutiny..errm sorry indian war of independence.

I disagree. This page specifically addresses the term "White Mutiny", its origins and its history. I agree that a lot of cleanup could be done. But, This page is not about the East India Company's army but about one specific event that occurred and its impact on history and popular culture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.250.183.123 (talk)

You said "This page specifically addresses the term "White Mutiny", its origins..." I don't see the origin of the term. I just see that a historical event was called that. I don't see any indication of why the event was called "The White Mutiny" or "a white mutiny". Another name (talk) 21:12, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I also don't see the definition of popular expression "White Mutiny" anywhere on this page. I see the historical account of a mutiny, but the term "White Mutiny" is used to refer to a situation where subordinates follow stupid orders precisely, usually to point out how ridiculous the orders are. I don't see anything on this page about how that's linked to the expression. 129.188.33.25 (talk) 00:10, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Removing Description in the "Popular Culture" section.[edit]

I believe that removing the description of "Heinlein's definition of a white mutiny is a mistake. In popular culture that IS the definition of white mutiny. A search on Google returns many links with that definition.

I suggest it be returned to the article even if it needs to be modified or placed under a different heading. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.250.183.123 (talk)

Disambiguation is needed here[edit]

1. "The White Mutiny" may refer to the events surrounding the dissolution of the "European Forces" of the British Honorable East India Company in India during the mid 19th century in the wake of the Indian Mutiny of 1857. No one has specified whether these events were a white mutiny in the sense of definition 2, or whether this was a mutiny of the white people as distinguished from a mutiny of the Indian people, or whether it was a mutiny against the white people, or whether it means something else.

2. "white mutiny" is a form of passive resistance which consists of following orders and rules exactly. Absolutely exactly. (white=good black=evil)

Like "That user name is already in use. Enter another name." So I entered another name.

Another name (talk) 21:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This message alone has earned the second meaning a right to be covered here. Now, if only we can find some references, or a reliable link to "malicious obedience" as a synonym... --Kiz o r 11:11, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is used in that sense in Patrick Rothfuss's "The Name of the Wind" [p. 593, New York: DAW Books, 2008 paperback]. However, It's not explained and I'm afraid the context of that page alone doesn't make it clear. But it still may be added as pop culture reference I guess. -- 91.66.28.152 (talk) 16:23, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that disambiguation is needed, and that until then, the popular culture meaning needs to be kept. I encountered the term in The Name of the Wind, and Googled it, which took me here! I suspect a reference to "white mutiny" as a form of passive resistance might be found in Gene Sharp's THE POLITICS OF NONVIOLENT ACTION. (My copy is lost, or I'd check right now…) It lists hundreds of forms of nonviolent action, and if it isn't listed as "white mutiny", it will have it under a different name. 2604:2000:F226:3200:9AE:84C2:5F12:375B (talk) 19:55, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Grammar and content[edit]

This entry is very poorly written. Verb tense disagreements abound, and I'd venture that the author(s) wanted to sound learned in some of the stilted wordings being employed here. In addition, the article doesn't actually state what the original "White Mutiny" was, and doesn't refer to the fact that it has attained colloquial status as an act carried out by subordinates, to the letter of the rule but without the tempering nuance of reality, in order to quietly rebel against a commanding officer by making him look bad. I don't know enough about the historical details to rewrite this, but someone needs to. It's bad.Thebookpolice (talk) 14:30, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree with this, there is far too many "" on things in this article. It could be taken in insult to European people, seeing as "Queens's Army" "European Forces" and even, "humanity" was consistently in quotations throughout the article. I don't know how better to explain how insulting this could be. LyaAma (talk) 20:10, 1 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

White Mutiny usage[edit]

I had thought that the term "The White Mutiny" referred specifically to the mutiny of 1,100 of the 1,350 officers of the Madras Native troops in 1809. This is the mutiny that is covered in the Cardew book. It is also the subject of a good chapter (3) in Ferdinand Mount's Tears of the Rajas, 2015. I am dubious about usage that puts it after the Indian Mutiny (aka Rebellion) of 1857. As Mount points out, the embarrassing episode of 1809, the worst mutiny ever in the European British armed forces, was remarkable for how little was written about it subsequently. Probably national embarrassment explains it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marklegrosallen (talk • contribs) 16:05, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]