Talk:Waving the bloody shirt

Islamic history

Removed passage noting source of phrase as "the aftermath of the murder of the third Caliph, Uthman in 656 AD, when a bloody shirt and some hair alleged to be from his beard were used in what is widely regarded as a cynical ploy to gain support for revenge against opponents." While it is a similar situation, it's perfectly obvious that that the American usage has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Left Caesar and Shakespeare as possible inspirations for the Congressional speech, but perhaps a section on historical parallels could be worked up. -LlywelynII (talk) 14:18, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Misdirection

Also removed most of paragraph:

The phrase originated with post-bellum politicians using sectionalist animosities of the American Civil War to gain election in the postbellum North from the 1860s to 1880s. The phrase implied that members of the Democratic Party (which garnered much of their support from the "Solid South") were responsible for the bloodshed of the war and the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. Some candidates of the Republican Party as well a few candidates of other parties rivaling the Democratic Party used this notion to get elected to office, under the idea Democrats and Southerners are one and the same, and men should "vote as they had shot".

The phrase doesn't imply anything about the guilt of the Southerners, but is a ridicule of Northern prattling on about it. Some of the paragraph could be salvaged for context, but shouldn't be taken as the actual meaning of the phrase. -LlywelynII (talk) 14:34, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Content Conflict

The redshirt page claims source of speech was Senator Oliver Morton, not Butler. -LlywelynII (talk) 14:38, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Earlier Usage

Waving the bloody shirt has an earlier American usage that originated with the abolitionists. William Safire wrote in his column "On Language; Keep Your Shirt On" (May 13, 1990) "...In post-Civil War politics, the bloody shirt was a symbol of service in the armed forces, or an evocation of old sectional hatred; to wave the bloody shirt was to ask for a vote on the basis of wartime alliances or emotions. The origin may be in the account of the abolitionist James Baird Weaver in the 1850's, about how he acquired the stained and shredded linen of a preacher who had been flogged for inflaming slaves: I waved it before the crowds and bellowed: 'Under this bloody shirt we propose to march to victory.'

Safire, I think, must be referencing directly or indirectly JAMES BAIRD WEAVER (1919) by Fred Emory Haynes: "To Weaver probably belongs the credit of being one of the originators of the expression "the bloody shirt". His own story of the origin of the use of the phrase was a "preacher by the name of McKinney, a most pugnacious and forceful man, moved from Davis county [Iowa] to Texas. He was one of these fellows who would preach every Sunday if he had to be the audience himself. Down in Texas one Sunday he got the negroes together at Fort Worth and preached to them. Word was passed around that an abolitionist was exciting the negroes to insurrection and the citizens got together. They took McKinney out and whipped him with a rawhide blacksnake whip, cutting his shirt into shreds and lacerating his body. He returned to Davis county in about '55 or '56, and an abolitionist meeting was held and I presided. McKinney had his shirt with him. A few days later I was at Agency City [Iowa]. Senator Grimes, James F. Wilson, Edward Stiles and myself were speakers. I recounted the outrages on McKinney and had the shirt with me. I waved it before the crowds and bellowed: "Under this bloody shirt we propose to march to victory'. I was a very young man in those days..."

Personally I think it sounds as if shredded bloody shirts are somewhat like the relics of early saints or pieces of the true cross Revans1953 (talk) 15:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)