Talk:Walk Away Renée

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Stub? Or how about START Class?[edit]

A stub? How much more can you say? It's a pop song, for heaven's sake! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.74.77.192 (talk) 01:56, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest that this article should now easily qualify for START classification. Discussion?LiPollis (talk) 11:00, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Since there has been NO discussion since 2008 about STUB versus START Class, but great improvement, I have decided that this article should be assessed as START Class and have done so. if anyone objects, please discuss below.LiPollis (talk) 13:46, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

notable cover versions?[edit]

Notable Cover Versions

Surely The Four Tops should be listed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.206.254 (talk) 22:03, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

that version is mentioned earlier in the article.LiPollis (talk) 04:56, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A cover is really a recording released immediately after a first recording intended to compete with on the charts (or "cover") that first recording while bypassing having to pay an initial one-time payment for the song. For this to work, the cover has to be released very shortly after the first recording and well before that recording has completed its sales trajectory (after the first recording has begun to descend the charts is too late). A cover certainly and absolutely is not any recording or performance of any piece not written by the performer. (In fact, in the classic and clearest case the song will not have been written by the performers on the first recording, on the recording being covered.)

An initial one-time payment is usually negotiated between a professional pop songwriter and those responsible for the first recording--the singer or his representative or the record company--because a professional pop songwriter couldn't possibly subsist on royalty rates set by federal law. But once a song has been commercially recorded or published, it is legal for anyone to record it as long as he pays this nominal royalty at this nominal rate.

After a pop song has had its initial run on the charts, it's impossible for it to be covered (ever). It's also impossible for anything in the public domain to be covered and impossible for anything already published to be covered. TheScotch (talk) 08:21, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to be making a distinction between cover version and remake. While cover version#History does seem to describe your meaning, later in the article the term "remake" is used several times to describe an alternate meaning of cover version—while Template:Appropriation in the Arts and remake limit the scope of "remake" to "cinema, TV, videos." I noticed that both articles have {{Multiple issues}} templates on them, perhaps if you have good references you can improve them. – Wbm1058 (talk) 20:06, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to add Jimmy Lafave,s beautiful and haunting rendition to notable cover versions? 

Kath5423 (talk) 01:43, 29 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Photo of Renee?[edit]

This blog has a purported photo of Renee: http://minitrue.co.uk/wordpress/smip-8-walk-away-renee-version-by-billy-bragg/398/ Is there anyway it could be used under fair use for this article?LiPollis (talk) 04:56, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That blog entry is now gone but to see the archived version, go to THIS link[1] and click on the image of the page and the suspected and/or purported photo of Renee will come up as you scroll down. I'm going to save the image to my hardrive just in case it goes missing again. LiPollis (talk) 00:58, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Recent major revision of the article[edit]

I did a major revision of the article which consisted mostly of re-ordering paragraphs for sense and adding in some citations. I did delete the mention of what appeared to be non-notable cover versions in the opening paragraph. That is because they don't belong there. If indeed, those new versions are notable, they should be added to the notable cover version section. The opening paragraph's should be reserved for information about the actual song, it's creation and it's performance on the charts. If future editors would like to include other cover versions in the article, they can do so under the section entitled: Notable Cover Versions.

See my comments in the notable cover versions? section above. TheScotch (talk) 08:39, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
and my response above – Wbm1058 (talk) 20:06, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

MySpace links in Wikipedia articles[edit]

Please people - stop re-inserting links to Myspace and reverting the article back to older, disorganized versions just to include non-notable cover versions. if the cover version is notable enough to be in the article, it belong under the section for notable cover versions and not in the first paragraph. i went to great trouble to re-organize the article so that it makes sense and isn't jumping from one subject to another. LiPollis (talk) 19:20, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with your claim that links to MySpace profiles are inappropriate. Many people in the entertainment business use MySpace pages as their personal websites, and this is the case with Tony Sansone - writer of the song "Walk Away Renee". MySpace pages are no different than any other web pages on the net, and should not be discriminated against by those with apparently biased views of the domain.
Also, I strongly consider the most recent cover of "Walk Away Renee" by GJORGI (which was co-produced by the writer of the song) to be worthy of mention in an article about the history of this especially popular song. Please stop removing my content and inaccurately dismissing it as "vandalism". Monica Hart (talk) 11:23, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
External links don't belong in the main text of the article. Normally myspace, youtube, flickr and other such social networking sites are not allowed. If this is the actual myspace page for Sansone, perhaps it could be placed in the external links section. (And don't forget, Sansone is the co-writer of the song). When trying to insert information, please respect what others of have already done and don't just delete things. That's probably why it appeared to be vandalism. Since there seems to be a dispute on adding the GJORGI information, you should discuss it here before adding it back. Do you have sources for this? If it's co-produced by Sansone, it may be notable, but keep in mind neither Sansone nor GJORGI appear to have wiki articles. This isn't 100% necessary, however we would need sources (a website, some publication, information on the record label, etc.) freshacconcispeaktome 15:18, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Monica Hart, it is not your inclusion of the material that is objectionable, but rather the manner in which you do it, repeatedly. Instead of putting it down in the Covers section, you revert the article to a much older, less well-written and referenced version of the article. In doing so, you obliterate all the constructive edits and hard work that followed, make references go poof and just make the article a mess. If you feel very strongly that there needs to be mention of this cover version and can back up your claims about it, leave me all the relevant info AND reference links on my talk page and I'll see if I can sort this out for you and get it included. In the meantime, I ask that you respect the many updates and improvements others have made.LiPollis (talk) 14:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Genre[edit]

The former genre label of baroque pop, which I have deleted, is actually not endorsed by the source article in footnote 3. The article specifically notes that the song is "more pop than baroque" implying that it refutes the baroque label. QueryOne (talk) 01:52, 5 May 2011 (UTC)QueryOne[reply]

Footnote 3 refutes nothing of the sort and in fact, serves to reinforce the notion that the song is "baroque pop". That article seeks to discover how baroque the song actually is and the conclusion is that it's not wholly baroque -- which is obvious to anyone with ears -- but does have baroque elements to it (specifically the presence of harpsichord, obbligato strings and "the falling chromatic bass melody in the first eight bars"). The article concludes that the song is a baroque-flavoured piece of pop music -- which is precisely what "baroque pop" is. You've been warned by multiple editors about changing genres in Wikipedia articles with no justification before, both in this article and others ("Eight Miles High" for example). Please stop this tedious and annoying vandalism or I will be forced to report your actions to the Administrators' notice board, which may ultimately result in another block for you. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 09:27, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Re: " but does have baroque elements to it (specifically the presence of harpsichord, obbligato strings and 'the falling chromatic bass melody in the first eight bars')."

What is specifically Baroque (note capitalization) about strings or a descending (note that the proper musical term is not falling) bass line (line, not "melody")? The term obbligato can refer to a keyboard part which is fully written out instead of merely suggested with figured bass--obviously not applicable here--or a secondary melody. Since the strings part here is essentially a pad, very common in sixties pop, it isn't properly "obbligato", and neither is it Baroque. TheScotch (talk) 08:35, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the strings and bass line (I agree that bass melody is not the usual term to use, but then again, the phrase "bass melody" does perhaps make the meaning clearer for the non-musician layman) are pseudo-Baroque sounding -- as supported by the inline refs -- or at least, they are as close to Baroque as popular music ever gets. As for "obbligato", in this case I think it's being used to describe the integral nature of the song's string part, but personally I could stand to see the word removed because, as you say, it isn't actually obbligato in that sense ( the use of this word comes straight from the inline citation, by the way). Also agree about the capitalising of the word Baroque, I'll check through the article now to correct any erroneously capitalized examples. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 12:55, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for capitalizing Baroque and replacing "falling". I can't agree that this arrangement (and it's clearly the arrangement we're discussing, not the song) is "as close to Baroque as popular music ever gets". It seems obvious to me that the electric piano solo in the Beatles's "In My Life", for example, is much more suggestive of the Baroque period (while still very superficial or pseudo-Baroque, as you put it). Really, I'd prefer we just labeled it, as far as the box goes, "pop rock". I don't mind discussing other stylistic suggestions within the article if we do it in a musically literate manner, but since many rock critics are, unfortunately not at all musically literate, we should be wary of embracing their remarks uncritically--so to speak. TheScotch (talk) 06:48, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good point about the piano solo in "In My Life", although the rest of that song isn't particularly Baroque-sounding...especially not when compared to something like The Rolling Stones' "Lady Jane". However, I think that "Baroque pop" should remain in the infobox because for better or worse, "Walk Away Renee" (and other Left Banke songs) are frequently cited as textbook examples of Baroque pop by authors and critics. It's also supported within the article itself with inline referances.
I know what you're saying about music critics, but as an encyclopedia, Wikipedia should attempt to present accepted wisdom on occasions like this, rather than -- shall we say -- fringe theories. That's not a dig, by the way, I can be at odds with accepted music critic wisdom on occasion too; for example, I totally disagree that The Beach Boys' album Pet Sounds is in any way a psychedlic rock or psychedelic pop record (SMiLE and Smiley Smile yes, Pet Sounds, no). Yet many critics cite it as such and therefore, listing psychedelic rock/pop in that album's infobox is justified and probably sensible (even if it does wind me up every time I see it).
By the way, what happened to the "Cultural references" section of the "Walk Away Renee" article? I'm usually not a fan of such sections, but this one was reasonably short and seemed at least to be sourced. I think it should probably be retained. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 15:52, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That section was removed by an annymous user tagged as: User 68.113.148.18 and while it was a little bit teetering on the side of trivia, I agree that it DID add something to the article and was well-souyrced. In fact, I was one of the editors that tried to find a source for every assertion made there by ANY editor just to make sure the info was accurate and at least provable by relaible sources. I think it could go back in but if you add it back in, make sure to add a discussion secition here suggesting no further summary removal by a single unnamed editor until those of us working on the article can come to consensus. Cultural sections are viewed by some editors (and this one who noted it as such) as nothing more than a Trvia section and trivia sections are generally discouraged because all they often turn out to be are lists of aggregated facts. If you see some informtation in that section whcih could worked into a paragraph and new section perhaps entiteled "lasting legacy", I'm all for it. I have a cousin who was named after this song by her musician father and many other musicians have done the same. Clearly the song has a cultural legacy that could be discussed. Also, if you can find any good sources comparing this song to other "Baroque" influenced pop/rock songs such as discussed above, that might warrant cited inclusion as well. best wishes! LiPollis (talk) 09:45, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'll add this section back in. I'm not the biggest fan of "cultural influence" sections myself, for exactly the trivia-related reasons you outline above, but at least this one seemed quite well sourced and wasn’t too long and sprawling. As for adding a section to this talk page discussing it, I don't think that's necessary at this stage; our above discourse will be preserved here and really, IP users (or anyone else for that matter) shouldn't be blanking entire sub-sections of an article without editor consensus. That goes double when the sub-section in question is supported with inline citations. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 13:42, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Just checking back to let you know that I'm fine with your decision, Kohoutek1138. Walk Away Renée as an article has attracted a lot of interest since it was expanded and well-sourced by a number of enthusiastic editors. The Facebook group called The Official Left Banke Fan Page frequently discusses the cultural impact of the song or notes new and/or olkd cover versions of the song suddenly getting new attention via release on CD or recent use in TV shows, Films or commercials. I belong to that group myself and enjoy hearing news about members of the band itself and their feelings about the song and others by Left Banke. I feel that as long as regular editors of this article do their best to prevent the section from becoming a trivia list, it should stay. We should simply be mindful that whenever and wherever there is a piece of informtion or a significant fact that can be elegantly worked into one of the existing sections of the article or perhaps in a newly created section, then it should be done. In this way, we are following good editing guidelines and protecting ourselves from overzealous, but perhaps well-intended, blanking of sections that may appear to merely be trivia to one person. For example, some of the famous people who have named their daughters Renée , specifically after this song, often mention that in magazine articles or autibiographical pieces that perhaps could be briefly quoted rather than merely cited. I wonder, and perhaps this is a subject for me to explore or inquire of the band, if there was any up-tick in the name's frequency of use for newborns after the song came out. My own name, Lisa, saw such an increase after a popular character on a Soap Opera used the name and many women my age heard about that fro0m their own mothers! There's even some documentation about it in a Baby-Name book I have. I'll assign the task of looking for info about the name and any possible increase in usage to myself but anyone who wishes to help me is welcome! LiPollis (talk) 23:13, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Accented e ("é")[edit]

Folks, the title of the song, as noted in the article itself is "Walk Away Renee". Neither the original title nor any subsequent reference to the title (e.g. Rolling Stone magazine) use the accented e ("é"). And neither Renee Flamm nor Renee Stewart use the accented e in spelling their name.

I have changed the "é" to "e". Thanks, Madman (talk) 14:45, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but since all 3 statements above are factually incorrect, per LP cover, per Rolling Stone, and per printed source on Renée Fladen-Kamm (no idea about the 4th, Rod Stewart's daughter not relevant) restoring the article lede. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:05, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: default to no move: existing title retained in the absence of a new consensus. DrKiernan (talk) 16:20, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Walk Away Renée → Walk Away Renee – In support of the recent edit by Madman (talk) [2]: change the accented e to unaccented. As the article notes, the title does NOT use the accented e (é) – Wbm1058 (talk) 15:59, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose - hey guys, couldn't really care less whether an American song has an accent or not, but should at least follow the evidence, namely that THE LP COVER HAS THE ACCENT. Also apart from the album cover, printed sources which can represent the name do, such as The Rolling stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll 1983- Page 200 ("In fact, two of their bigger hits from 1968 were covers: the Left Banke's "Walk Away Renée" (#14) and Tim Hardin's "If I Were a Carpenter" (#20). In 1972, the group left Motown for ABC/Dunhill, where they quickly recorded a couple of ..." ). This kind of orthography issue needs careful referencing from printed sources.
Also, FYI, despite comment above, the real-life source of the song appears as Renée Fladen-Kamm in relation to the Sherwood Consort and on the printed credits of the Sherwood Consort's Marion and Robin CD, and in books on medieval music. That should be reflected in the "real Renée" section per WP:BLP. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:11, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sources are mixed, we also have:
One could argue that the accented e (é) is not a part of the English language (WP:ENGLISH)—per WP:diacritics, follow the general usage in reliable sources that are written in the English language (including other encyclopedias and reference works). Please don't push a point-of-view by cherrypicking sources (not saying you intentionally did that). I'm not claiming that this is a WP:Trademark issue, but one could also argue that Renée is a "stylized rendition" of Renee in the English language. Even the French (examples above) might agree. – Wbm1058 (talk) 15:26, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Also per WP:IRS we are supposed to use the "best" sources, and sources "reliable for the statement being made." The pressing machine for a mono-colour LP disc label is not as reliable as the LP cover itself. The original release has the accent, hence the accent exists. It is not "added" on the LP cover, but "dropped" on (some of) the disc label - a big difference.
Plus per WP:BLP we know that Renée Fladen-Kamm's name is spelled Renée Fladen-Kamm. Why should we spell it incorrectly because some LP pressing labels were missing it? There is actually better evidence in this RM for the correct spelling than for Emily Brontë or Renée Zellweger. So on what basis do you want to mispell her name? In ictu oculi (talk) 00:43, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note I have added Mary Devlin Medieval Music, Magical Minds 2001 In ictu oculi (talk) 00:09, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good discussion. The sources that I found (here's another one here) did not use the accent, but the evidence is certainly mixed. In my opinion, Renee Flamm's name can be spelled with and without an accent (see her LinkedIn profile here), but I do believe that the spelling of her name is pretty much immaterial to the discussion.
My thanks to Wbm1058 for bringing this to this forum. I appreciate your work.
How should we resolve this? Madman (talk) 23:35, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
By withdrawing RM? Seriously, there hasn't been a single source presented yet that contradicts the LP/CD cover and LP/CD insert, only a few sources with capital letters and accent-disabled fonts. The album as far as I can make out from Google image search has never been pressed/issued with the accent missing.
As you say "Renee Flamm's name can be spelled with and without an accent", (NB it's Fladen-Kamm not Flamm), yes, well that's true of Renée Zellweger too, Renée Zellweger's name can be misspelled and is frequently mispelled. In fact mispellings of Renée Zellweger outnumber correct spellings by 7.5m x to 4.3m x on Google. But per WP:BLP we spell people's names accurately whatever entertainment websites do. If Ms Fladen-Kamm had her own bio (unfortunately she fails WP:notability as she only recorded as member of a medieval ensemble) it would be spelled correctly, per printed source given in article footnotes. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:18, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments –
    • I find In ictu oculi (In the blink of an eye)'s statement, "couldn't really care less whether an American song has an accent or not", disingenuous. It seems obvious to me from the tone and length of his comments that he cares a great deal about the use of accents on Wikipedia.– Wbm1058 (talk) 15:56, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      wikt:disingenuous. I see, so you're making a personal character assessment here and you can read my mind? Are you inviting other users' to assess your character from the tone in your considerably lengthier comments? Let me repeat, I "couldn't really care less whether an American song has an accent or not" = "I couldn't really couldn't care less whether an American song has an accent or not", Understood? But since it has the accent, it's not my fault the album cover, label and printed sources have the name spelled correctly is it?. You don't need to withdraw this remark, but someone should point out that if you make a habit of this kind of comment you'll be less persuasive rather than more so. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:21, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Renée/Renee doesn't have a last name in this song, and I regret that real people have been dragged into the discussion, contrary to the spirit of WP:BLP policy, which in my view advises that the privacy of non-notable persons should be respected.
    • Speaking of Renée, I found it odd that not a single Renee who spells her name without an accent was included in that list. I've fixed that. Wikipedia is closely split between persons using the name with and without the accent. There are over 60 Renées on Wikipedia, and there are also over 60 Renees on Wikipedia.
    • I found a couple persons on the internet using Reneé (accenting the last "e"). See the "both ways" example I gave above. Maybe non-French speakers not knowing any better?
    • In ictu oculi has taken the position that sources using all-caps should be thrown out in any evaluation of which title is most commonly used in reliable sources, without bothering to tell us the guideline supporting that argument. I found it: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/France and French-related, specifically WP:FRENCHNAMES: Common French usage is to omit accents in capitals, however this is not the proper usage and accents should be included in capitals. Perhaps that explains the French record labels cited above omitting the accent. But this is problematic. Record labels and Billboard are reliable sources which routinely list song titles in all caps. Wikipedia policies have tied us up in knots, leaving us with little in the way of solid guidelines or policies to resolve the issue. WP:DIACRITICS#Modified letters says, Search engines are problematic unless their verdict is overwhelming; modified letters have the additional difficulties that some search engines will not distinguish between the original and modified forms, and others fail to recognize the modified letter because of optical character recognition errors. So we're supposed the use the title most commonly used in reliable sources, but lack the tools to determine what that is. Seems it will all boil down to a matter of opinion, rather than policy.
– Wbm1058 (talk) 15:56, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Further comment – Perhaps MOS:RETAIN is a guideline that can help resolve this. I know it's intended to address differences such as British vs. American English, not English English vs. French English. But the current accented-é title has been established since September 2006, and the article was still a stub when it was moved. "the variety used in the first non-stub revision is considered the default"." We should have a neutral-party close to establish this on the record. Wbm1058 (talk) 17:08, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I don't see any examples of the song (as opposed to the album) getting an accent. It isn't given one by Billboard (1968, Four Tops version), The Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll (p. 556), or 1000 Songs that Rock Your World (This subject is song No. 574 on the list.) Kauffner (talk) 01:20, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thankyou. Voila! (hey, shouldn't that be Voilà?) Those last two examples are in lower case! – Wbm1058 (talk) 17:19, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, this is interesting. The 3rd edition of the Rolling Stone book, helpfully linked above so you can search it for "Walk Away Renee", uses lower case without the accent. iio cites the first edition of the same book, from 1983, ISBN 0671434578. Amazon only has the most recent edition searchable. I guess we assume good faith and take his word for it. Perhaps Rolling Stone determined that the accent really didn't belong there, and removed it from the later edition? FWIW, my Google books search for Walk Away Renée finds a few with accents, but the accent-free version is clearly dominant, in my view. And when Billboard uses lower case, they omit the accent. See Gabor Szabo album. They didn't use the correct characters for this Hungarian's name either. – Wbm1058 (talk) 18:01, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, which is why en.wp Gábor Szabó doesn't consider Billboard's area of reliability to include being an authority on Hungarian names. Please see WP:IRS "reliable for the statement being made" In ictu oculi (talk) 03:21, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's no diacritic in either the title of the original single in the LOC catalog, or in Amazon's song lists for either of the CD versions that are currently for sale.[3][4] Kauffner (talk) 07:32, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Repeat from very many timewasting RMs of this kind there's a reason why WP:IRS does not class retail websites as reliable printed sources. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:04, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oic, the Library of Congress is not up to your high standards. I didn't see anything relevant to this issue in IRS. English-language sources in general are inconsistent about diacritics, but that's not a reason to make stuff up. If you think your time is wasted here, you may spend it somewhere else. How you spend your time is not my responsibility. Kauffner (talk) 04:02, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Oic"?
Repeat: from very many timewasting RMs of this kind there's a reason why WP:IRS does not class retail websites as reliable printed sources. Library of Congress is not a retail website.
However, as far as reliability of orthographics in digital input on the Library of Congress catalogue, it varies enormously according to subject area. Any eventual closer of this RM will need to do a test run on how accurately the LOC digital catalogue inputs Renée Zellweger before accepting without evidence that LOC digital input is more accurate than the THE LP COVER In ictu oculi (talk) 04:20, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You know what a single is, right? It was issued to the radio stations and charted in July 1966, months before the album came out in February 1967. The name of the album need not correspond to that of the principle song. Kauffner (talk) 09:37, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Oic" → shorthand for "Oh, I see"
So, if we are to ignore sources that print the title WALK AWAY RENEE in all caps because "Common French usage omits accents in capitals" and Wikipedia uses lower case, then we need to omit all sources using all caps so as not to bias the results. Therefore, by that logic, the album cover can't be used because it is in caps. We seem left with a problem where the guidelines tell us to use the form that is most commonly used in so-called reliable sources (who knows which sources are "reliable" when it comes to the specific issue of proper use of French accents in the English language?) and other guidelines that make finding, much less counting them to see which is the most commonly used form, of course this effort on a case-by-case basis is an incredible diversion and waste of time! If there were a solid Wikipedia policy on use of French accents, a cut-and-dried formula that a simple bot could follow to ensure universal encyclopedia-wide conformance with policy, we wouldn't be wasting this time. What is this business with orthography? "Orthography is largely concerned with matters of spelling, and in particular the relationship between phonemes and graphemes in a language. Other elements that may be considered part of orthography include hyphenation, capitalization, word breaks, emphasis, and punctuation. Orthography thus describes or defines the set of symbols used in writing a language, and the rules about how to use those symbols." So, what does orthography tell us about use of French accents in the English language, and are there any Wikipedia guidelines regarding this? Wbm1058 (talk) 13:53, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Wbm1058
(1) Yes. WP:IRS: "The reliability of a source depends on context. Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made and is the best such source for that context."
(2) No. The single label, LP cover, CD cover, book print references, etc. etc. are to an American accent. Renée Fladen-Kamm is as much an American as Renée Zellweger, Renée Fleming, Beyoncé Knowles, just as Charlotte Brontë is English. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:46, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes yes, but really we're not talking about a "statement being made," unless one "makes a statement" by spelling a name with a diacritical mark (or not). And we have no guidance for determining what are the "best sources" for the "context" of whether to spell a name with a diacritical mark or not. To most Americans, an "American accent" means an accent (linguistics) such as a Boston accent. The idea of an American diacritical mark is, in my opinion, foreign to most Americans. Just because perhaps half of American Renees spell their name with an accent (and perhaps half don't), doesn't help in deciding whether this "Renee" does. Actresses may choose to use the accent to "make a statement" and stand out from the crowd as a sophisticated, worldly person. Girls choosing to spell their names without the accent may prefer to blend in with the crowd and like their fries American, rather than French. – Wbm1058 (talk) 18:12, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wbm1058, in this case WP:IRS "reliable for the statement being made" means "reliable for the statement whether the accent 'Walk Away Renée' on the LP cover is there or not"
As far as American girls being as narrow-minded and xenophobic to "like their [French fries|fries] American, rather than French," that hasn't been my experience with American girls, but if you're right American girls are so xenophobic and horrified by an American accent then why do they buy singles by Beyoncé Knowles?
In ictu oculi (talk) 02:02, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is way past time please for any passing editor to close and get it off the WP:RM backlog. The Walk Away Renée single, Walk Away Renée LP, Walk Away Renée printed sources have "Walk Away Renée", even without reference to Renée Fladen-Kamm. This RM was evidently put up in a hurry without checking printed sources, and has wasted enough time already. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:02, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Move log[edit]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Tony Sansone's claims[edit]

I have no clue as to your editing formatting, but your wikipedia entry here differs greatly from the opinion expressed on this video by the one of the authors of the song, Mr Sansone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpFAmNaY7yc

with respect to the origin of the song and how it was written. Would someone please put this edit of mine into proper wikipedia format? I have no time to learn your editing rules, which should be revised, btw, if I cannot figure them out.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.193.12 (talk) 22:18, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The last person to include them in the article calls them "well-referenced," but Sansone himself is the only source given. I could give an interview claiming that I wrote "Walk Away Renee," but that still wouldn't make it deserving of inclusion in this article. Sansone's claims are emphatically denied by at least one of the surviving members of the group. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.87.124 (talk) 14:20, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bach Connection[edit]

Any truth to the rumour - "BASED on Bach's Pretty Ballerina"? AMCKen (talk) 19:30, 20 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Piano player on Four Tops version[edit]

I’m trying to find out who played piano on this version 96.245.82.40 (talk) 19:27, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

An interesting cover of this song[edit]

The successful French/Bulgarian chanteuse Sylvie Vartan had a french version of this song “Quand un amour renaït” released on a single in 1966 around the time of her album “2’35 de bonheur”. The other side of this single being “Garde-moi dans ta poche” Label: RCA Victor https://www.discogs.com/release/8236276-Sylvie-Vartan-Quand-Un-Amour-Renait-Garde-Moi-Dans-Ta-Poche 2600:1700:9240:EB90:CC4:A551:8E59:7BB7 (talk) 05:29, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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