Talk:Vulcan (mythology)

Comments

This article contained this bit:

His name was originally spelt with an initial B, as appears from an ancient altar on which were inscribed the words BOLCANO SAC. ARA. This spelling indicates the true derivation of the name, which is simply a corruption of Tubalcain, who was "an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron"

(Gen. iv. 22).

This strikes me as profoundly implausible. Partridge's Origins, not the best source, connects Vulcan with Welkhanos, a Cretan god of destructive fire of whom I have never heard. The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible relates Tubalcain to the Tibarenoi, "workers of iron and steel" who are equally unfamiliar. The accentuation is wrong for the tu- element to simply disappear in a Latin word. Does anyone know of the source of this claim? --- Smerdis of Tlön 03:11, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)

(new comment, different user) i'm really surprised that this article makes no mention of star trek... it could have been in the legacy section or something. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.130.111.184 (talk) 10:02, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Pandora

As it was the section (if it can be called that) containing Pandora was ill worded. This still doesn't sound as good as it could, but it is better than the 'beautiful, but dumb' Pandora. -ImmortalGoddezz 01:47, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Sources

Some potential sources: general mythology; (

• wp
• g
• b

)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by BD2412 (talk • contribs) 23:08, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Requested move

I propose moving this page from Vulcan (mythology) to Vulcan (god). While mythology forms part of the article and should certainly be covered, it also treats religious worship of Vulcan, and we should making any assumptions in the title about how far the cult-figure overlaps with the mythical figure. "God" applies adequately to both. EALacey 10:53, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose Mythology includes gods. This is the usual and rational dab; compare Venus (mythology). Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:18, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Mythology includes gods as characters in myths, but doesn't include gods as objects of cult. A statement like "the Vulcanalia was celebrated on August 23 each year" is not part of "mythology". I would maintain on the same grounds that Venus (mythology) should be at Venus (goddess). EALacey 20:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
  • I'll add that I think you're right to point out that consistency is an issue. It might be better to discuss this more generally at somewhere like Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome. Or has there already been a discussion on this point somewhere? (We don't seem to have a naming convention for deities.) EALacey 20:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
    • If you make a guideline proposal, let me know. The fundamental problem with the idea is that it makes unavoidable "who is a god?" (The examples I can come up with mostly aren't ambiguous, but I mean figures like Heracles, Proteus, Candaon, Castor, Aeolus.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:06, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
      • That's a good point. However, using "mythology" consistently also creates problems in individual cases, especially for deities with no associated mythology. An example would be Terminus, whom I moved from Terminus (mythology) to Terminus (god) a while ago thinking that would be uncontroverisal.
        • I'm not going to move it back; but I see it does have the story about Terminus refusing to be moved. I'd call that a myth; such as Roman myths are. Remember, disambiguation is not intended to be even as precise as categories; if we had a technical fix where all these articles were called Vulcan and it was still trivial to link to the right one, we'd use it. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:24, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose - Per reasons given by PMAnderson. Reginmund 22:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I've withdrawn the request for a move for now, since it's clear a consensus is needed on the naming issue in general and not with regard to Vulcan alone. Pmanderson rightly points out that "god" is a problematic description for Heracles etc. But I think there are strong reasons not to use "mythology" as the regular disambiguator, since the result of this is at best to marginalise systematically the non-mythological aspects of Greco-Roman religion, or at worst to imply the POV that all ancient concern with the gods was directed towards mythological conceptions of them. EALacey 06:37, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

It's simply the convention. --Wetman 16:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

It's a wrong convention but that's because it's better to dab them all as (deity) and not because they represent a valid or respectable belief system. It's ok that some people were wrong about things. The only reason not to use (deity) is to highlight the way mythology obscures the (also wrong) astrological and mystical bases of various beliefs without regard to the stories. The actual worship was towards the deities, though. — LlywelynII 05:03, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

The "Mythology" section

The "Mythology' section inserted 8 July by an anonymous editor is a well-meaning but unsourced, "tell it in your own words" personal essay in the manner of Wikipedia in 2003. It needs to follow Latin sources more closely, without the picturesque and sentimental details. --Wetman (talk) 03:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Vulcanus is not Greek Hephaistos. Roman and Greek gods may have a common IE origin but evolved idependently and the result was often significantly different. Later they were once again interpreted along the lines of the Greek ones.Aldrasto (talk) 12:19, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

The article on the Italian Wiki is very good and complete (rated A and window). I do not know whether it can be translated here, saving time and effort. What are the rules?Aldrasto (talk) 10:46, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I have completed my edits. I restored the section on worship written by another earlier contributor to the upper position.Aldrasto (talk) 12:26, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Etimology

The Latin name Vulcānus comes from *vulkas 'wolf', cf. Latvian vilks, ulks 'wolf', South-Baltic vulks, Goth. wulfs < *vulks, Slavic volk < *vulk-, Albanian ujk < *ulk, Illyrian ulk-, Greek lukos < *ulkos, Latin lupus < *ulkus etc. Roberts7 19:46, 3 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roberts7 (talk • contribs)

I have another problem with this. What does "This interpretation is supported by William W. Skeat in his etymological dictionary as allied to Skt. "varchar-s", lustre" mean? What is "Skt." and what is "'varchar-s', lustre"? Donama (talk) 03:14, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't hold because it implies recent and close links between Latin and Baltic languages, which is simply not the case... Italic languages are Centum while Baltic are Satem, which is one of the deepest and oldest divisions between IE languages. Kinship is possible, or even probable, but direct derivation is sheer poppyrooster. --Svartalf (talk) 19:16, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Sanctuaries

Somebody deleted the opening lines of the section so now the text is unclear. I think it can be retored and I shall add citations. That the Volcanal was one of the oldest Roman altars and had a perennial fire is pacific. That it stood at the foot of the capitol too. Hope next time those people who have objections to the contents discuss here before acting of their own accord.Aldrasto11 (talk) 13:37, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Cretan God "Welkhanos" ?

Welkhanos became Zeus#Zeus_Velchanos Böri (talk) 17:32, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes it looks this is the origin of Vulcan: he was a Jupiter Dolichenus. See Capdeville' s book on V.Aldrasto11 (talk) 08:05, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Juno threw him from Mount Olympus?

Because in Apocolocyntosis, Augustus declares "Look at Jupiter: all these years he has been king, and never did more than once to break Vulcan's leg, 'Whom seizing by the foot he cast from the threshold of the sky,' ", which quotes from the Illiad, wherein Hephaestus is the speaker. I would say that perhaps in the Roman tradition, Vulcan is thrown by Juno, but Seneca quotes the Greek source and names Jupiter as the one who did threw him. I see no citations for the present claim of it being Juno, although it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if there are different versions. I just want to know where the Juno version comes from. The Illiad quote comes from book one, line 591, if anyone cares to check, and you can google Apocolocyntosis and find it about half-way through. Justanaccountnothingmore (talk) 03:38, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Importance

This definitely needs a higher importance rating and much more expansion, Ptah and Hephaestus as well. 174.4.163.53 (talk) 10:36, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Sure, but you'd need to do it yourself. Canonically, these guys are the least sexy of gods. — LlywelynII 05:00, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Mulciber, what is it?

There are some pages in the internet (including Vulcan article in Britannica.com, also wikipedia's Mulciber, ja:ウゥルカーヌス, fr:Vulcain (mythologie) which listed also many other names/epithets of his: Lemnius, Mulcifer, Etnæus, Tardipes, Junonigena, Chrysor, Callopodion, Amphigyéis) suggesting that Vulcanus was also called Mulciber (the smelter/fire allayer). Can anyone confirm this information? Was it one of his (and his counterpart Hephaestus') epithets? —16:19, 17 April 2015 (UTC), edited Thắng L.Đ.Q. (talk) 16:26, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes.13:19, 11 March 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aldrasto11 (talk • contribs)

Suggestion - remove section on Hephaestus

Even if Vulcan is to be associated with Hephaestus, there's no reason why the myths surrounding the latter should be given here with the gods simply given their Latin names. This section should go. Thoughts? - Eponymous-Archon (talk) 00:20, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Any data at all...

suggesting this guy isn't the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for Vulcan and that the dab isn't in the wrong place? — LlywelynII 05:00, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

"Vulcan (mythology" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Vulcan (mythology has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 21 § Vulcan (mythology until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 21:27, 21 February 2024 (UTC)