Talk:Voiceless alveolo-palatal affricate
 | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
[edit]
Where's the pronunciation audio file? If none exists, it would be nice if one were added! -Iopq 01:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
- The sound exist in my native tongue, so I could (theoretically) make it, but I'm not well equipped with the sound-processing software. Please ping me in a week or so. Duja 13:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Japanese phonology[edit]
The previous version of this article said, "in Japanese, /t/ is affricated to [ʨ] before /i/ or /j/". That's a natural way to analyze [ʨ] in Japanese, and it fits well with the Japanese writing system. However, I think it's more common now to say that /ʨ/ is a separate phoneme. The Japanese language and Japanese phonology articles both take this position (although Japanese phonology is inconsistent in places).
Fortunately, we don't have to decide which analysis is right. The phonology isn't really relevant to this article anyway, so I've deleted it and just left the actual facts: the sound [ʨ] is used in Japanese, and it's normally romanized as "ch". --mconst 12:03, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
style of this page[edit]
Wouldn't it be a better idea if we conform it to the arrangements of other pages like Voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative? A table of 'occurrence', that is.
石川 (talk) 01:52, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah. That's why this and a few of the affricates pages are marked with cleanup tags. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 04:49, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
tɕ vs j sound[edit]
Just curious, how exactly does an English J sound (ʒ in the ipa right?) and a tɕ sound differ? I'm interested because in the Korean phonology section ㅈ is a tɕ sound but it sounds just like a J sound. --Bluesoju (talk) 11:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
- Take a look at Postalveolar consonant#Types of postalveolar fricatives and affricates; English speakers have difficulty telling the difference between different types of postalveolar articulations. The two sounds are very similar in other ways as well. English J is typically transcribed as a voiced /dʒ/ in the IPA, though the voicing onset time is a little high so that it is voiceless through most of its duration (whereas the VOT for English /tʃ/ extends even into the vowel). The exception to this high VOT for /dʒ/ is between vowels. Turning to Korean, /tɕ/ is normally voiceless except between vowels, when it is voiced [dʑ]. Are you starting to see why they sound alike? — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 17:10, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
- The difference is palatalization.--2.245.66.112 (talk) 21:30, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Spanish in Barcelona[edit]
As you have reported, Catalan language has this sound, so people who speak Spanish and Catalan in Bercelona and other areas pronounce the Spanish ch as /ʨ/ instead of standard Spanish /tʃ/, I don't have any source but as I heard a difference I wanted to investigate and all I found was that Catalan has a different sound that is not /tʃ/, it is /ʨ/. This make Spanish ch spoken by Catalan people when speaking Spanish sound like /ʨ/. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuuagso (talk • contribs) 01:19, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, but we need more than original research to include it. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi] 03:33, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
- Probably the source of this confusion is wikipedia itself as the source of Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_sibilant webpage seems wrong as I stated myself on that talk page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.12.21.174 (talk) 12:23, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
- I agree to the OP. Look at http://es.forvo.com/word/chico/--2.245.66.112 (talk) 21:28, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Portuguese[edit]
Can someone look at the sources, and tell which dialects are actually described, and whether the sources are actually reliable?
| Language | Word | IPA | Meaning | Notes | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Portuguese[1] | Brazilian | [[[Portuguese orthography|tcheco]]] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help) | [ˈtɕɛku] | 'Czech' | Allophone of /t/ before /i, ĩ/ (including when [i, ĩ, j] is not actually produced) and other instances of [i] (e.g. epenthesis), marginal sound otherwise. Argued both to be laminal [tʃ],[2] and generally produced "in the middle of the hard palate",[1] same of fellow alveolo-palatal [l̠ʲ] and [n̠ʲ],[3] and further palatalized than Italian post-alveolars.[4] See Portuguese phonology |
| Mato-grossense | [[[Portuguese orthography|cheio]]] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help) | [ˈtɕej.jʊ] | 'full' | ||
| Most Brazilian dialects | [[[Portuguese orthography|petit-pois]]] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help) | [pɪ̥̆ˈtɕi puˈa] | 'green peas' | ||
| Carioca | [[[Portuguese orthography|T-shirts]]] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help) | [tsiˈɕɜxtɕɕ] | 'T-shirts' | ||
| Some speakers | [[[Portuguese orthography|distinto]]] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help) | [dʑitɕˈɕĩtu̥] | 'distinct' | ||
Mr KEBAB (talk) 02:24, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
References[edit]
- ^ a b seqüências de (sibilante + africada alveopalatal) no português falado em Belo Horizonte Page 18 (in Portuguese)
- ^ Análise acústica de sequências de fricativas seguidas de [i] produzidas por japoneses aprendizes de português brasileiro (in Portuguese)
- ^ Considerações sobre o status das palato-alveolares em português (in Portuguese)
- ^ Dialects of Brazil: the palatalization of the phonemes /t/ and /d/ Page 27 (in Portuguese)
- Alternative place to read the Cora Coralina article which got deleted from the UEG website: https://www.yumpu.com/pt/document/view/12841228/palatalizacao-dos-fonemas-t-e-d-um-estudo-dialetologico-do-/7 Srtª PiriLimPomPom (talk) 18:56, 11 September 2017 (UTC)