Talk:Vidyaranya

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why is Vidyaranya being called Madhava - Acharya?[edit]

Even the Sringeri website http://www.sringeri.net/jagadgurus/sri-vidyaranya/biography confirms that Vidyaranya, Madhava and Sayana were separate people from different gotras and from different places Warangal and through inscriptions the brothers were from Chandragutti near sringeri. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ge-eN-De (talk • contribs) 00:57, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Tradition has it that Madhava (the generally accepted pre-ascetic name of Sri Vidyaranya)". Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:08, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvadarsana Samgraha[edit]

While Sarvadarsana Sangraha is a book written by this author, there is no separate article for Sarvadarsana Sangraha on English Wiki. I would like to start a separate article on the book. Can I? Suggestions and reference welcome. - Veera.sj (talk) 13:19, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Expounded in Sarva Darshana Sangraha[edit]

I find the usage of the word Expounded not right. Especially if you read it (not sure whether the people who's work is referenced to use that word actually read it). Because here is the link https://archive.org/details/Sarva-Darsana-Samgraha.by.Madhavacharya-Vidyaranya.tr.by.E.B.Cowell/page/n95 the only thing that is blatantly negative about The System of Purna Pragnja is "guise" in the introduction about this work. There is no expounding anywhere. May be the word expounded can be toned down. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.144.176.250 (talk • contribs) 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Sources[edit]

  • William J. Jackson, Vijayanagara Voices: Exploring South Indian History and Hindu Literature, p.18 ff
  • Robert E. Goodding, A Theologian in a South Indian Kingdom: The Histoical Context of the Jivanmuktiviveka of Vidyaranya, p.83 ff
  • Nalini Rao, The Hindu Monastery in South India: Social, Religious, and Artistic Traditions, p.69
  • Valerie Stoker, Polemics and Patronage in the City of Victory: Vyasatirtha, Hindu ...
  • Matthew Clark, The Daśanāmī-Saṃnyāsīs: The Integration of Ascetic Lineages into an Order, Chapter Six: The Rise and Influence of Advaita Mathas

Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 10:58, 30 January 2022 (UTC) / update Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:31, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Changes to Vidyaranya's wikipedia page[edit]

Copied from User talk:Joshua Jonathan#Changes to Vidyaranya's wikipedia page

You've extensively used one source in your article, on the role of Vidyaranya in the founding of the Vijayanagara Empire. You might that's to push the academic point of view. It might be, for some academics, but other academics do think otherwise as well (prominently Prof Nilakantha Shastri's). You would expect that in an article such as this a traditional point of view is more fully represented. But it isn't. You've also added a lot of edits making it quite difficult for a general reader to get an idea on Vidyaranya. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RamgopalChandrasekaran (talk • contribs) 04:07, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

End of copied part

@RamgopalChandrasekaran: I've used, and checked, the sources which were already being used, most notably Dalal, plus a number of additional sources: Jackson, Goodding, Slaje, Clark, and a number of other sources, including Hacker. I guess you object against the use of Goodding, Robert A. (2013), "A Theologian in a South Indian Kingdom: The Histoical Context of the Jivanmuktiviveka of Vidyaranya", in Lindquist, Steven E. (ed.), Religion and Identity in South Asia and Beyond: Essays in Honor of Patrick Olivelle, Anthem Press. That's a WP:RS; what he argues is in line with what other authors argue.
Nilakantha Shastri's views are explicitly mentioned, and questioned. This is what was in the article 4 months ago:

Vidyaranya served as a prime minister in the Vijayanagara Empire and played an important role in the establishment of the empire. According to one narrative, the empire's founders Harihara Raya I and Bukka Raya I were two brothers in the service of the Kampili chief. After Kampili fell to the Muslim invasion, they were taken to Delhi and converted to Islam. They were sent back to Kampili as the Delhi Sultan's vassals. After gaining power in the region, they approached Vidyaranya, who converted them back to the Hindu faith.[1][2] The historical authenticity of this narrative is a matter of debate. The contemporary documents, including the inscriptions issued by the earliest rulers of Vijayanagara, do not mention this account. The contemporary Muslim records refer to Harihara (as "Harip" or "Haryab"), but do not mention anything about his conversion to Islam, although they contain details of other converts from Deccan. The first works to mention this narrative were written over 200 years after the establishment of Vijayanagara.[3]

I've expanded that into this:

The role of Vidyaranya in the founding of the Vijayanagara Empire is not certain.[4] According to tradition, Vidyaranya played an important role in the establishment of the Hindu Vijayanagara Empire (1336-1646) of South India, which emerged as a culmination of attempts by the southern powers to ward off Islamic invasions by the end of the 13th century,[5][6][7][8][9] as a successor to the Hindu kingdoms of the Hoysalas, the Kakatiyas, and the Yadavas.[10][11] According to tradition, Vidyaranya supported and inspired the empire's founders Harihara Raya I and Bukka Raya I to fight the Muslim invasion of South India,[12][13] and served as a prime minister to Harihara Raya I, the first king of the Vijayanagara Empire and named after Harihara, the fused sattvika characterisation of Vishnu (Hari) and Shiva (Hara), and then to Bukka Raya I and Harihara II.[14]

There are several versions of Vidyaranya's role in the Vijayanagara Empire.[4] The Andraha or Telugu version depends on Sanskrit sources written 200 years later, and is often repeated in historical works, such as Nilakanta Sastri's A History of South India.[4] According to this narrative, the empire's founders Harihara Raya I and Bukka Raya I were two brothers belonging to the Kakatiya dynasty, serving the Kampili chief. After Kampili fell to the Muslim invasion, they were taken to Delhi and converted to Islam. They were sent back to Kampili as the Delhi Sultan's vassals. After gaining power in the region, they met Vidyaranya, who converted them back to the Hindu faith. After receiving his blessings, they founded their kingdom at ca. 1336.[15][16][4]

An alternate Kannada narrative is that Harihara and Bukka were serving the Hoysalas. The date of 1336 for the founding of the Vijayanagara Empire is unreliable, based on copperplate inscriptions from the 16th century, forged by Sringeri math "when the Vijayanagara kings shifted their interest from the Saivite matha to the Vaisnavite sect, and the leaders of the matha wanted to reassert their prestige by connecting themselves directly with the founding of the empire."[17] In this view, 1346 is more likely, based on an inscription mentioning the manotsava, or great festival, of Harihara and Bukka, held at Sringeri matha. No mention is made here of a role of Vidyaranya.[17]

The historical authenticity of the Andraha or Telugu account has been questioned.[18][4] The contemporary documents, including the inscriptions issued by the earliest rulers of Vijayanagara, do not mention this account. The contemporary Muslim records refer to Harihara (as "Harip" or "Haryab"), but do not mention anything about his conversion to Islam, although they contain details of other converts from Deccan. The first works to mention this narrative were written over 200 years after the establishment of Vijayanagara.[19][4]

According to studies by Filliozat, Kulke and Wagoner, Vidyaranya was not involved in the founding of the Vijayanagara Empire.[17] Texts describing such an involvement date from the 16th and 17th century, and the involvement of Vidyaranya is a "political foundation myth, an ideological attempt to represent the authority of the Vijayanagara state as deriving directly from that of the Sultanate."[20] Vidyaranya's role as an advisor to Harihara Raya I and Bukka Raya I "was imagined probably at least 200 years afterward."[21] His supposed political status may be based on a misidentification with Madhavamatrin, a minister to Sangama brother Mallapa I.[21] Vidyaranya is not mentioned in inscriptions from before 1374.[21]

References

  1. ^ R. Blake Michael (1992). The Origins of Vīraśaiva Sects: A Typological Analysis of Ritual and Associational Patterns in the Śūnyasaṃpādane. Motilal Banarsidass. pp. 26–. ISBN 978-81-208-0776-1.
  2. ^ A History of South India: From Prehistoric Times to the Fall of Vijayanagar, K.A. Nilakanta Sastri
  3. ^ Phillip B Wagoner (2000). David Gilmartin and Bruce B. Lawrence (ed.). Beyond Turk and Hindu: Rethinking Religious Identities in Islamicate South Asia. University Press of Florida. pp. 300–301. ISBN 978-0-8130-3099-9.
  4. ^ a b c d e f Goodding 2013, p. 87.
  5. ^ Hacker 1995, p. 29–30.
  6. ^ Blake Michael 1992, p. 60–62 with notes 6, 7 and 8.
  7. ^ Nicholson 2010, pp. 178–183.
  8. ^ Talbot 2001, p. 185–187, 199–201.
  9. ^ Goodding 2013, p. 86.
  10. ^ Gilmartin & Lawrence 2000, p. 300–306, 321–322.
  11. ^ Chopra, Ravindran & Subrahmanian 2003, part II, pp. 22–24.
  12. ^ Nilakanta Sastri 1955, p. 216.
  13. ^ Kamath 2001, p. 160.
  14. ^ Jackson 2016, p. 18.
  15. ^ Nilakanta Sastri 1955.
  16. ^ Blake Michael 1992, p. 26.
  17. ^ a b c Goodding 2013, p. 88.
  18. ^ Jackson 2016, p. 20.
  19. ^ Wagoner 2000, p. 300–301.
  20. ^ Goodding 2013, p. 88-89.
  21. ^ a b c Goodding 2013, p. 89.
The 'traditional account' is represented; I've expanded the info which was already there, including the critical remarks. You may disagree with this questioning, but you cannot remove reliable sources info, per WP:RS and WP:NPOV.
If you think that it quite difficult for a general reader to get an idea on Vidyaranya, then you should try to improve the writing, not mass-revert reliably sourced info. The section on the identification with Madhava could some improvement, maybe; but you don't solve this by simply reverting. What you can do, is check those sources, and see if their info can be presented more clearly.
As an endnote, be sure that my interest in Vidyaranya is sincere. I've been studying Advaita Vedanta for years, including reading source texts, like the Upadesasahasri. This was quite interesting; Shankara emphasized immediate insight, without the need to ponder over the Mahavakyas over and over again; and he rejected Yoga; this stands in contrast to contemporary Advaita Vedanta. So, I wanted to understand this discrepancy, and the endorsement of Advaita Vedanta by the Vijayanagara rulers partly explains this. Regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:51, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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