Talk:Vernon and Irene Castle

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Display of categories[edit]

I ask that there be added here, an additional main category of Iconic 20th Century Women , not only because Irene Castle became one of THE women of the world at the time, in every way, but also because she moved among many of the others as well known and at the head of the Women's Rights way of the time. Her clients, her coutouriers, her sculptor, etc. Every aspect of what it was to be a new woman was embodied by Irene Castle and her coterie, and in that way that is of absolute historic validity. Her eventual triumph over the loss of Vernon Castle , and brave remarriages and children - all these factoids point to a classic tale of Women's self-actualization of the times.

I can do this, but I do not know how to designate an additional category, but other Wikipedians are more qualified. Ellesmithfagan (talk) 04:17, 3 February 2011 (UTC)Ellesmithfagan[reply]

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Year of birth and Year of death categories can be found on the individual redirect pages for the separate partners

However, when one tries to look for the individual names (or even their birth names) the search immediately redirects to the Vernon and Irene Castle page; am I missing something? I also looked at 1887 births as a test to see if Vernon's name was there. It wasn't... Any help? --FeanorStar7 (talk) 02:44, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Edit: I found Irene Castle in the 1893 birth categories listing.--FeanorStar7 (talk) 02:46, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That hidden comment assumed that there would be individual pages but there aren't. I have removed it. Unfortunately, as is the case with articles about two or more people, there can't be a category of birth or death, as you can't separate the two within one article. Binksternet (talk) 02:50, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thanks for the info and clearing up the problem. Why can't there be multiple birth and death categories if the two people are known commonly together? Otherwise, if someone is looking for both people by birth or death date they won't find them... Is there a better solution? (I'm going to look at WP:Categorization of people to see if I can find something); edited to add: I looked at the Laurel and Hardy page and apparently they have written separate articles as well as the article about the duo; in the separate articles, the dates are used as expected; nothing useful in the categorization of people page on WP:Categorization of people--FeanorStar7 (talk) 03:04, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Year of death on this page would serve no purpose, not to say it will not work as intended. - 7-bubёn >t 03:11, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I see your point. I posted a question on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Categorization_of_people#What_to_do_with_duos.3F
I received an answer; one solution is to create a redirect page for Vernon Castle with a lifetime tag containing the birth and death categories; this will create an italicized listing for him in each of the appropriate listings. ETA: it's already done; I was able to find the redirect pages for both people; categories in place on the redirect pages; thanks for everyones help--FeanorStar7 (talk) 08:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Walter was BLACK"[edit]

Can anyone find a proper source that verifies Irene did indeed say this? Cause if she did, I'm pretty sure she would've referred to Walter as "colored" or "negro". Those were the two popular terms used to describe black people back then, "black" was seldom used. 24.189.90.68 (talk) 04:28, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I came here just now to create a section called: "Walter was BLACK".
Yes, exactly. It's not believable that she would have chosen an offensive term like "black" in order to defend someone. "Colored" and "Negro" are the two logical possibilities, in that order.
Varlaam (talk) 07:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Films together[edit]

In the lead sentence we say they appeared in silent films together, and we suggest something like that later. Section Filmography (Irene) begins with 1917 films. He left the U.S. to serve as a fighter pilot in January 1916 and he was killed in 1918. Perhaps that is "Irene alone". We should identify their joint film appearances, at least the more important, or revise the lead. If their film work together was largely instructional, or instructional films were their most important, we should be clear about that. --P64 (talk) 20:04, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea. Can you research the matter? -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:11, 9 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Life without Vernon[edit]

Recent changes to the final paragraph this section are not accurate:

  • "Castle and her third husband moved to Destiny Farm near Eureka Springs, Arkansas in 1954.[24] She died there in 1969, aged 75."
    • In fact, Destiny Farm is not located "near" Eureka Springs, but rather "in" Eureka Springs. The property line is fewer than one hundred yards from the main street in the town. I know this because my family has lived there for thirty-one years. I'm attaching a photograph of the location of the property, now heavily wooded, in relation to the town. (The article in the Encyclopedia of Arkansas, http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=5649, is also incorrect on this count, perhaps based on the assumption that a ten-acre "farm" is too large to be inside a town's city limits. This is not OR; Google Maps shows clearly the facts in question.
  • Also, Irene Castle's third husband, Frederic McLaughlin, died before she moved to Arkansas in 1954, and she married her fourth husband, George Enzinger, in 1946. The order of husbands is Castle, Treman, McLaughlin (misspelled in the Encyclopedia of Arkansas), and Enzinger.

Any objection to my updating this information? Ssilvers, any thoughts? Civilizeme (talk) 16:26, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the corrections; I made the changes. When you add information to Wikipedia articles, please always cite a published source, or the information may be deleted. This article is still under-referenced. If you know of high-quality sources about the Castles, and you are interested in helping out with this article, please go ahead and use them to improve the article's referencing; that would be a big help. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:53, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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No consensus to add Infoboxes[edit]

Irene Castle
Irene and Vernon Castle circa 1912
Born
Irene Foote

(1893-04-17)April 17, 1893
New Rochelle, New York
DiedJanuary 25, 1969(1969-01-25) (aged 75)
Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Vernon Castle
Vernon Castle a few days before his death in 1918
Born
William Vernon Blyth

(1887-04-02)April 2, 1887
Norwich, England
DiedFebruary 15, 1918(1918-02-15) (aged 30)
Benbrook Field
Fort Worth, Texas

I oppose adding the infoboxes to this article that were suggested by an editor today. The Manual of Style says: "Whether to include an infobox ... is determined through discussion and consensus among the editors at each individual article." While sports and politician bios can benefit from infoboxes, most articles in liberal arts fields, as here, do not: "Infoboxes may be particularly unsuited to liberal arts fields when they repeat information already available in the lead section of the article, are misleading or oversimplify the topic for the reader". I disagree with including not only one infobox, but two(!) in this article because: (1) The boxes emphasize unimportant factoids stripped of context and lacking nuance, in competition with the WP:LEAD section, which emphasizes and contextualizes the most important facts. (2) Since the most important points in the article are already discussed in the Lead, or adequately discussed in the body of the article, the boxes are redundant. (3) They take up a huge amount of valuable space at the top of the article and hamper the layout and impact of the Lead. (4) Frequent errors creep into infoboxes, as updates are made to the articles but not reflected in the redundant info in the boxes, and they tend to draw more vandalism and fancruft than other parts of articles. (5) The infobox templates create a block of code at the top of the edit screen that would discourage new editors from editing the article. (6) They would also discourage readers from reading the text of the article. (7) They would distract editors from focusing on the content of the article. Instead of improving the article, they spend time working on this repetitive feature and its coding and formatting. See also WP:DISINFOBOX. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:28, 18 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Start an RFC and see if you can get consensus, and I will respect the consensus. The most read and most edited article in on the current president of the United States. I do not see the infobox discouraging anyone from reading or editing that article. The information is no more redundant than what is in the lede and in categories. The error is just a silly argument as any article can contain an error. The New York Times publishes paragraphs of corrections each day. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 01:08, 19 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I see the Somambulant1 and Ssilvers tag team have arrived together again. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 04:11, 19 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I see that you are edit warring again, RAN. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:21, 19 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the reasoning stated above by Ssilvers, and therefore reverted the edit in order to remove the infobox pending consensus. Somambulant1 (talk) 04:18, 19 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I have said many times on previous discussions, I see no value in info boxes as they add nothing that isn't in a good lead and I see no value in having one in this article. Jack1956 (talk)<

Wiki Education assignment: Performance and Social Change[edit]

This article was the subject of a Fall 2022 class assignment, now removed by professor. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:36, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Performance and Social Change" sounds interesting. It is great to relate encyclopedia topics to their broader social context. I work on a lot of arts entries, and your contribution here really helps! Welcome! -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:50, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

DMY dates?[edit]

Why are we using dmy dates on an article about a dance team who performed mosty in the US? The husband was born in England, but the wife was American, and they are notable for their American performances. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:35, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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