Talk:Văn Lang

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Significance of toponym?[edit]

What was the significance of the name "Van Lang"? Because the very name, translated as "literate village", suggests that the early Vietnamese saw themselves as "literate", but as opposed to who? Did they believe that their neighbours were not literate or "civilized"? Le Anh-Huy 07:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't 郎 mean "young man"? How do you get "village" from this? Badagnani (talk) 07:42, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which just shows that these people were just another Chinese tribe. 86.164.58.47 (talk) 21:12, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relationships with other cultures[edit]

What is the connection, if any, between Văn Lang and the Dong Son culture or Sa Huỳnh culture? Badagnani (talk) 02:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are many archaelogical records suggesting a strong relationship.Sea888 (talk) 18:43, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Van Lang existed prior to the invasion of the Chinese[edit]

I'm editing this because Van Lang existed prior to the first arrival and encounter of the Chinese.Sea888 (talk) 18:43, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is no evidence that these people pronounced their place name as Van Lang (modern vietnamese). In all likelihood those people backk then were not genetically related to the people now known as the vietnamese. 86.164.58.47 (talk) 21:15, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary, they were genetically related to the Vietnamese people today. --Thanhhaiphongviet (talk) 11:02, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lac Viet should direct to Vietnamese people[edit]

Can someone fix this?Sea888 (talk) 21:51, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That term refers to the original tribal peoples in proto-Vietnam, so the current redirect seems accurate, until an actual article entitled "Lac Viet" is made. Badagnani (talk) 22:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it should redirect to the Van Lang state as the Lac are the ancestors of the Vietnamese peopleSea888 (talk) 03:26, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The term refers to the original tribal peoples, as proto-Vietnamese, so Van Lang is currently the closest article, since that was what the people called themselves at the time of this state. An actual article article entitled "Lac Viet" should probably be made. Badagnani (talk) 03:33, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

These indigenous people and the people now refered to as vietnamese are not related. There is no evidence to support the people we know as vietnamese today are direct descendants of the Lacs. 86.164.58.47 (talk) 21:17, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Blanking[edit]

This edit, by an anonymous editor, needs to be reversed. Badagnani (talk) 03:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also in China?[edit]

If, according to the article, the country of Văn Lang was "bordered to the east by the South China Sea, to the west by Ba Thục (巴蜀; today Sichuan), to the north by Dongting Lake (Hunan), and to the south by Lake Tôn (Champa)," then did Văn Lang include parts of what is today China? Badagnani (talk) 22:13, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The whole of what's today's vietnam was once a part of China. 86.164.58.47 (talk) 21:18, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not during the time prior to the Chinese invasion of the Han dynasty. --Thanhhaiphongviet (talk) 11:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't make sense, because the article says that Văn Lang was "bordered to the east by the South China Sea, to the west by Ba Thục (巴蜀; today Sichuan), to the north by Dongting Lake (Hunan), and to the south by Lake Tôn (Champa)." Badagnani (talk) 02:06, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Geographical specifics[edit]

Need geographical specifics of each place:

Giao Chỉ
Chu Diên
Vũ Ninh
Phúc Lộc
Việt Thường
Ninh Hải
Dương Tuyền
Lục Hải
Vũ Định
Hoài Hoan
Cửu Chân
Bình Văn
Tân Hưng
Cửu Đức
Văn Lang (the king's capital)

Badagnani (talk) 22:14, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Văn Lang -> Bạch Hạc, Vĩnh Yên province (or Phú Thọ)
Châu Diên -> now Sơn Tây
Phúc Lộc -> Sơn Tây
Tân Hưng -> now Hưng Hóa - Tuyên Quang (including two provinces)
Vũ Định -> Thái Nguyên - Cao Bằng
Vũ Ninh -> Bắc Ninh
Lục Hải -> Lạng Sơn
Ninh Hải -> Quảng Yên
Dương Tuyên -> Hải Dương
Giao Chỉ -> Hà Nôi - Hưng Yên - Nam Định - Ninh Bình
Cửu Chân -> Thanh Hóa
Hoài Hoan -> Nghệ An
Việt Thường (Quảng Bình, Quảng Trị)
Cửu Đức -> Hà Tĩnh
Bình Văn (Unknown location).

If you can, please make a map.--Amore Mio (talk) 15:51, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Phong Châu[edit]

What are the sources showing 楓周 or 峰周 for Phong Châu? Also, should we add an article on Phong Châu? Badagnani (talk) 01:52, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(in Vietnamese) Trần Trọng Kim (1971), Việt Nam sử lược, 3, Sài Gòn: Center of Educational Material (Ministry of Education of Republic of Vietnam), page 13, quote "Hùng-vương đóng đô ở Phong Châu 峰州 (bây giờ ở vào đại hạt huyện Bạch Hạc, tỉnh Vĩnh Yên)". I'm so sorry that I have no further source about Phong Chau, so I can't write an article about it.--Amore Mio (talk) 02:18, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, The "Châu" there is 州 not 周. I forgot to look up.--Amore Mio (talk) 06:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How fantastic, you have access to excellent sources with Hán tự, unlike most of the Vietnamese-speaking editors here. We are privileged to have a scholarly person such as yourself working on our project. Badagnani (talk) 02:53, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Are you able to look up sources to find the etymologies of Vietnamese place names (those with Hán tự origins)? We've been having great difficulty finding how those place names used to be written in the days those characters were used to keep official records and maps. Badagnani (talk) 02:55, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I am able to do this but it will take a plenty of time. My Hán tự skill is basic and there are many words that I don't know.--Amore Mio (talk) 06:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we have Wiktionary and many other websites that can help look them up. And you can simply input the chu nom to get the Han tu using the WinVNKey software, which is free online. It's very easy to use. Badagnani (talk) 16:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Hồng Bàng dynasty which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 08:18, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]