Talk:Ugric languages

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recent edits bundle[edit]

My apologies for the blanket reversion, but correcting individual details one-by-one would not have been productive. Some particular points:

The idea of a common Ugric reduction of unstressed vowels is a fringe view at best, as far as I can tell; I've only seen it in some recent treatments of Hungarian historical phonology (and without reference to any Ob-Ugric or other Uralic evidence). Sammallahti (1988) explicitly retains a contrast *a/*ä : *ĭ for his framework of Proto-Ugric.
"ɜ" is not a distinct Proto-Uralic vowel, but simply a cover symbol for a vowel whose identity cannot be determined. *e and *i in unstressed syllables are the same vowel, with differing views on which should be reconstructed.
The idea of *s > *h > ∅ directly in Hungarian has indeed been proposed, but is a minority view and would need to be presented as such.

--Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 17:52, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Cosmographia[edit]

I removed the claim that Piccolomini (later Pope Pius II) would have mentioned the connection between Ugric peoples in his Cosmographia (1458). Here's a German translation of what he wrote [from Günter Johannes Stipa (1990)]:

"Im Asiatischen Skythien, nicht weit vom Don, wohnen Völker, ungebildete Menschen, die Idolkult treiben. Diese hätten dieselbe Sprache wie die Ungarn, die in Pannonien wohnen." In Piccolomini 1614: 324 ist hinzugefügt "Sie werden Ungarn genannt.. Ihre Rede unterscheidet sich gar nicht von der, welche die jenseits des Ister [der Donau] Wohnenden gebrauchen. Sie nennen sich Verwandte ... "

It is possible that this refers more to Magna Hungaria instead of Ob-Ugrians, as Scythia is usually associated with a more southern location. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 10:40, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]