Talk:Tribe of Dan

[unnamed thread]

Should Christian views on the Tribe of Dan be incorporated? For example, its absence from the list given in the Apocalypse (Revelation 7:5-8) is notable. PeterMottola 04:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The tribe of Dan is generally believed to have been founded by Dan the son of Jacob. This however is not correct. Dan was the original progenitor of the tribe of Dan. He was the original [High Caulbearer http://www.caulbearer.org] and was named as Dan as this name means “Judge.” In later times other Dans were named after the original Dan but this was later used to hide the true origins of the Danites in the course of forming the new One God religion. The Danites were the followers of The Way and would not allow their tribe be contaminated by the new belief systems. They therefore became sidelined by the other tribes of Israel and mainly dispersed themselves across the earth to wait for the coming of the Son of the Widow. The tribe of Dan, in the time of Jesus Ben Miriam, were his trusted protectors and he promised them that if they should remain true to The Way and the Covenant, then they would have their place within the seven nations that would be formed under the guidance of the Seventh Sign, who would also be known as The Lamb and [The Son of the Widow http://www.thesonofthewidow.org]

Asscociations by name

The association between the Tribe of Dan, the Ancient Macedonians and the river Danube based on the similarity of their names sounds interesting. But could someone add a source for such an idea? Dimadick (talk) 08:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Dan's allocated area is incorrect

The Bible describes Dan being allocated area around Joppa/Jaffa and then moving north, not being allocated area in the north to begin with as the article incorrectly states!

118.93.34.205 (talk) 05:15, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

I have amended the opening section to address this - BobKilcoyne (talk) 11:19, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Danaoi ?

= Achaeans(Akhaioi) = the Greeks! Böri (talk) 09:24, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I am surprized the Greek origin of Danites is not mentioned here. Need sources though. 67.124.150.221 (talk) 23:45, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

The book America and Britain elaborates on this origin of the Danites. Kingcortius (talk) 14:39, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Tribe of Dan: Sons of Israel, or of Greek Mercenaries Hired by Egypt?--Skylax30 (talk) 19:35, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Recent edits

An editor has added a considerable amount of material based on sources we do not consider reliable, specifically self-published books. See WP:RS. If they or anyone else wishes to restore the parts I've deleted, please discuss it here first. I'm not convinced what I've left meets our criteria at WP:VERIFY and WP:NOR. Dougweller (talk) 09:01, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

The edits are:

It is suggested by historians the tribe partially descends from the Denyen Sea Peoples, whom some said were absorbed into Israel, joining with Hebrews to form one of the original 12 tribes. The Denyens' conquests in the 13th and 12th centuries B.C. have been archeologically proven to coincide with and identical to the Israeli conquests of the Bible. It has been suggested Dan's mother Bilhah was from the Denyens and her son named accordingly. The most famous Danite was Samson, whom some suggest is derived from Denyen tribal legends.

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Another characteristic of this tribe was to explore new territories, having a tendency to name them after Dan. Shortly after the Exodus, Danites are said to have settled in southern Greece where they became known as the Danai. In 1285 B.C., an attack by the Assyrians prompted many in the tribe to sail away on their ships, settling in other territories. It is suggested the tribe is the origin of much geographical identity in Europe as well nations, including the Danube River, Denmark, Sweden, Danzig, Dunkirk, and Donegal. British Israelism is part of this possible history. Jordan is speculated to have been named for this tribe after conquering Laish, but this is discounted by some historians who claim it was named before the conquest.

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Wheres Dan (talk) 11:57, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I repeat, we don't use self-published books by publishers such as Wheatmark, iUniverse, etc, or random websites, as sources. Dougweller (talk) 05:50, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

This editing is just not very convincing. How could "Denmark" and "Sweden" have something to do with the tribe of Dan? This research might not be very neutral.Zephaniah204 (talk) 02:51, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Recent edits by Wheres Dan

I'm about to take a Wikibreak, but quite a bit of the stuff added today seems to be based on dubious sources, much of it 19th century, some Freemason sourced. And how could a tower of Emmaus Nicopolis have been a landmark if Emmaus Nicopolis is as recent as its article suggests? And an 1833 source for its astrology season? Dougweller (talk) 10:08, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

As recent? It's an ancient city.

Astrology seasons do exist. {See: "Astrology: the Seasons"} The scorpion was a symbol of the tribe, and Scorpio is found in the middle of autumn.

What does it matter what the year of the source is? Has it been refuted, discredited; unsourcable? I'm going to research more into the X Haplogroup found in and around ancient sites in the Midwest, the Great Serpent Mound in the Midwest, ancient shekels found in Massachusetts this century, and Menasseh ben Israel's American Lost Tribes belief while you're on wikibreak. Is Brutus Buckeye Prince Bukki of Dan reincarnated? We don't know it all yet.

Wheres Dan (talk) 21:13, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be any evidence Emmaus Nicopolis is much older than the 2nd c. BCE. Don't even bother with X Haplogroup - it's X2 and not relevant, any more than the 126 BC to 66 AD shekel (which I seriously doubt was traded by the Phoenicians with the Vikings, don't people even check any history before making statements like that?). Sure, Menasseh Ben Israel writing almost 500 years ago thought the Lost Tribes got to South America, it might belong in a history of weird ideas, but not here. Dougweller (talk) 21:27, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

The Tribe of Dan was of ancient Egypt, Dan himself allied with Egyptian princes, their tribe was highly knowledgeable, especially of construction and architecture, and their tribe was the seafaring tribe, so it is not weird to believe all the pyramids in the Americas have some kind of link to Egypt via the ancient Middle Eastern diaspora ultimately of many groups, and possibly the Tribe of Dan themselves; and we're now finding through DNA those links in some of the Americas. The Druze have a high concentration of the X haplogroup and they're still in and around Israel and the region. You're an anti-Semite.

Wheres Dan (talk) 22:28, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

If the material you're suggesting is still accepted by scholarship, there will be modern sources supporting it. You redact that anti-semite remark right now, he made no remarks against any race, ethnicity, or culture so it is just rude and immature for you to call him that. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:24, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

See Non-academic material allowed and outdated material acceptable when modern sources lacking. Ultimately, all the arguments being made to keep the additions out are not sanctioned by wiki protocol. The only real argument you have is editor consensus, but objecting just to object is not sufficient to impede the additions.

Wheres Dan (talk) 01:44, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Additions

In origin, this is common knowledge and cited elsewhere in wiki: Dan had one child, a son named Hashim. {See: "The blessed Virgin's root traced in the tribe of Ephraim"} (p. 358)

In history, this is common knowledge and cited elsewhere in wiki: During this time, Bukki was the prince of the tribe.

In characteristics: The tribe was disobedient, continuing to worship Baʿal, establishing rival priesthoods, practicing paganism, {See: "Tyndale Bible Dictionary"} (p. 347) and considered the blacksheep of the tribes. {See: "The Jewish encyclopedia: a descriptive record of the history, religion, literature, and customs of the Jewish people from the earliest times to the present day, Volume 4"} (p. 423)

In characteristics: The sapphire represented the tribe religiously on the ephod of the high priest, {See: "The Catholic encyclopedia: an international work of reference on the constitution, doctrine, discipline, and history of the Catholic church, Volume 14"} p. 308 {See: "Catholic Bible-RSV"} (p. 70) {See: "A Biblical and theological dictionary"} (p. 180) situated between the Tribe of Judah's emerald {See: "The American tyler-keystone: devoted to freemasonry and its concerdant others, Volume 14") (p. 442) and the Tribe of Naphtali's diamond. {See: "Proceedings of the Grand Lodge of free and accepted masons of the District of Columbia, Volume 2"} (p. 270)

In characteristics, this is common knowledge and cited elsewhere in wiki: They were said to have excelled in stratagems, {See: "The Holy Bible: containing the Old and New Testaments, according to the authorised version; with explanatory notes, practical observations, and copious marginal references, Volume 1") (p. 179) and they were militaristic in nature having lived next to the Phillistines, while being aggressive, valorous, warlike, independent, and freebooters. (See: "A concise dictionary of the Bible: comprising its antiquities, biography, geography, and natural history: being a condensation of the larger dictionary") (p. 186-187) Many decisions were made based on military calculation, such as conquering Laish from the territory of the Tribe of Ephraim and renaming it Dan. (See: "A Critical Commentary and Paraphrase on the Old and New Testament and the Apocrypha: Judges-Psalms"} (p. 80) The conquest is recounted in the story of Micah's Idol.

In symbology and landmarks: The eagle, which was the armorial bearer on its banner, and the scorpion, are also symbols associated with the tribe. Colors associated with the tribe's flag included red and white. (See: "Dictionary of the Bible: biographical, geographical, historical, and doctrinal") (p. 243)

The tribe's season is autumn astrologically. {See: "The Comet, Volumes 1-2"} (p. 311)

The towers of Ailon, Selebi, and Emmaus Nicopolis were notable landmarks of the tribe. {See: "A Dictionary of the Bible: Red-Sea-Zuzims"} (p. 1220)

In fate, the link provided to the Lost Ten Tribes corroborates the line that follows: They were scattered throughout the world, including in Europe and other places.

Wheres Dan (talk) 01:31, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Objections?

Wheres Dan (talk) 08:16, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Some reliable, recent sources

Understanding Dan: an exegetical study of a biblical city, tribe and ancestor By Mark W. Bartusch [1].

Recent excavations in Israel: studies in Iron Age archaeology By Seymour Gitin, American Schools of Oriental Research [2].

And a religious press book A history of ancient Israel and Judah By James Maxwell Miller, John Haralson Hayes [3].

These appear to meet our criteria at WP:RS. Dougweller (talk) 09:50, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Going on Wikibreak in a little while. Back sometime next month. Dougweller (talk) 13:09, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Doug suggested these sources, but not the others. Using just these sources would be fine, but that doesn't excuse sneaking others in. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:26, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Golden Dawn

In Israel Regardie, Cris Monnastre, and Carl Llewellyn's book the "The Golden Dawn: A Complete Course in Practical Ceremonial Magic", the Tribe of Dan's color is Green-Blue.

Joe1w (talk) 03:48, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

The snake symbol of Dan

The Danite snake symbol is neatly tied in Zeev Jabotinsky's imaginative telling of the story of Samson the Danite, his companion Nehushtan ("Little snake" in Hebrew) and their band of youths harrassing the Philistines.— Ineuw talk 23:01, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

The Eagle or the Scales of Justice symbolosm properly identifies the Tribe of Dan. The snake is more of a reference to one particular war moment. Genesis 49:17 Kingcortius (talk) 14:45, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Correction on spelling of the word symbolosm to symbolism. Kingcortius (talk) 14:47, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

The Tribe of Dan is Not the Antichrist

Antichrist should be excluded from this article because the facts are not proven and are bias opinions from millennialism. This articulate approach has to be neutral and backed by documented resources and/or the Book of Revalation from the Holy Bible. The Book of Revalation does not state The Tribe of Dan as being the Antichrist. Millennialism is based on the Book of Revalation. Unless it has actually happened as a current or past event this should not be speculated or introduced as a fact of the Tibe of Dan being the Antichrist. Kingcortius (talk) 15:09, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

We report what is published in the secondary sources, not your personal interpretation of the Bible. MrOllie (talk) 15:26, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. Can you provide the secondary source that states these facts about the Tribe of Dan? Kingcortius (talk) 15:41, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

It's cited in the article. Click on the little numbers. MrOllie (talk) 15:42, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

The Tribe of Dan (Danites) Worship EL SHADDAI who is JESUS, the HOLYSPIRIT, and many more.....

@MrOllie.....Can you make reference to this message from EL SHADDAI from his Prophet King Cortius Tribe of Dan "That the Tribe of Dan is no longer lost and there are 14 Tribes of Isreal to include the Tribe of Dinah, all 14 tribes are sealed Revelation 7:9" Kingcortius (talk) 16:27, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Again, we report what is published in the secondary sources. MrOllie (talk) 16:32, 30 May 2023 (UTC)