Talk:Tren de Aragua

Xenophobia

@WMrapids: Hi. With recent fearmongering and hoaxes from far-right outlets such as Breitbart about Venezuelan migration, we have to be careful to use high quality sources, and not only local ones. A good example about this trend is shown by this piece by Chicago Sun-Times:

• Main, Frank; Schuba, Tom (10 November 2023). "Despite internal police alerts, scant evidence of violent gang members among Venezuelan migrants in Chicago". Chicago Sun-Times.

NoonIcarus (talk) 19:06, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

You are actually citing an outdated article. I have already removed potential xenophobic information from the refugee article, so I understand your concerns, but the best way to improve this article would be expanding information on Latin American sections. WMrapids (talk) 17:01, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Totally agree that the article could do better with expanded sections from other regions. A book I can recommend is one written by journalist Ronna Rísquez about the band gang. --NoonIcarus (talk) 18:17, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Source misinterpretation

Disputed content includes the following statements:

• The gang targets Venezuelan refugees in the United States where they recruit members
• Their activities increased in New York City, with Tren de Aragua allying with MS-13
• Presence of Tren de Aragua in New York began with various phone thefts in five different counties

All of these assertions, among others, come from a New York Post interview cited here:[1]. The  New York Post (RSP entry) is generally unreliable, and its RSP entry is clear on the matter: "There is consensus that the New York Post is generally unreliable for factual reporting especially with regard to politics, particularly New York City politics. A tabloid newspaper, editors criticise its lack of concern for fact-checking or corrections, including a number of examples of outright fabrication."

• A notable brawl occurred in Times Square on 27 January 2024, with two members of the Tren de Aragua reportedly being arrested after attacking NYPD officers.

The Associated Press article itself says in its headline: "Man charged with attacking cops in Times Square and vilified in Trump ad was misidentified, DA says". The only mention about the gang here is ICE has alleged both are Tren de Aragua gang members.. This cannot be asserted in an editorial voice, and definitely shouldn't be included unless there are convictions or conclusive investigations.

• In Texas, the gang extorts Venezuelan migrants and is primarily present in El Paso.

Nowhere in the article this is stated. Besides continuing to cite the New York Post, there are only three times when the city is mentioned: citing a FBI agent, saying that the gang allegedly uses this place as a crossing (according to the NYP), and citing a former Marshall.

The article that I offered about Chicago already addresses the police reports, and responds writing: "Cops were warned to check crime suspects for tattoos linked to the El Tren de Aragua prison gang. A Sun-Times analysis found shoplifting and domestic violence arrests, but little proof of the gang’s presence among migrants."

All of this, along with WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BLPCRIME, leaves pretty clear that better sourcing must be used for this section. --NoonIcarus (talk) 23:09, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

1. The gang targets Venezuelan refugees in the United States where they recruit members. This was replaced with better sources.
2. Their activities increased in New York City, with Tren de Aragua allying with MS-13 Found other sources for this, but it seemed more speculative.
3. Presence of Tren de Aragua in New York began with various phone thefts in five different counties Was NYP, so not restored into article.
4. A notable brawl occurred in Times Square on 27 January 2024, with two members of the Tren de Aragua reportedly being arrested after attacking NYPD officers. ICE and DHS have both said that they were members of the gang, so this is attributed.

Also, please read my response that the Chicago Sun-Times piece is outdated.

Overall, better sources have now been provided. WMrapids (talk) 21:44, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

More misinformation, this time from Elon Musk: Did Elon Musk Wrongly Implicate NYC Migrant In Police Assault?!. --NoonIcarus (talk) 01:37, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

This is not related. WMrapids (talk) 21:44, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

WP:BLPCRIME

We should be cautious about naming people who haven't been convicted of a crime. I realize the potential connection with Killing of Laken Riley is hot right now, but those folks are not Wikipedia:PUBLICFIGUREs, especially considering that the alleged gang member is not thought to be directly implicated in that crime, so I feel they should remain unidentified. Thesixthstaff (talk) 19:56, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Totally agree. Care should also with the rest of the content for the same reason, such as during the New York brawl. Sources already describe that Javier Damien was already misidentified, and we have to remember that content on Wikipedia has real-world consequences. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NoonIcarus (talk • contribs)

@Thesixthstaff: Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I read your concerns about this on the other talk page and was looking to make these changes myself, but it looks like you got it done. Thanks again! WMrapids (talk) 01:14, 13 March 2024 (UTC)