Talk:Treatise/Archive 1

Archive 1

2007-11-6 Automated pywikipediabot message

--CopyToWiktionaryBot 19:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Literary works to be assessed for inclusion or moved to the section below

It takes time to qualify or verify works as a treatise. I'm hoping the structure that now exists inspires others to support the evolution of this page.M) (talk) 03:17, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

The following works have been honored with the "Treatise" label, either because 'treatise' was used in the title or added here by Wikipedia visitors. They are presented here as they have yet to be confirmed to have the features of a treatise. If you feel a work below qualifies, please move it to the article.

Works with a Systematic Discourse

These works haven't been assessed beyond the systematic discourse. Maybe they are scientific writing, maybe they lack a feature of a treatise.

Title	Author	Year	Subject
I Quattro Libri dell’Architettura	Andrea Palladio	1570	Architecture
Treatise on Probability	John Maynard Keynes	1921	Probability
Foundations of Economic Analysis	Paul Samuelson	1947	Economics

Works with an Unknown or Unconfirmed Systematic Discourse

Title	Author	Year	Subject
The Kural	Valluvar	~500BC	Virtues
Oeconomicus	Xenophon	~400BC	Economics
Siyasatnama (The Book of Government)	Nizam al-Mulk	1000s	Government
Teachings on the Flower	Zeami Motokiyo	1300s	Art
Discourses on Livy	Niccolò Machiavelli	1500s	Politics
Hua Yu Lu (Treatise on the Philosophy of Painting)	Shitao	1600s	Art
Compendium Musicae	René Descartes	1600s	Music

• Recent economics treatises have also been written:
  • Milton Friedman—Capitalism and Freedom
  • Murray Rothbard—Man, Economy, and State
  • George Reisman—Capitalism: A Treatise on Economics

• Uncategorized treatises written by various philosophers:

• Ludwig Wittgenstein—Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus
• Cesare Beccaria—On Crimes and Punishments
• David Hume—A Treatise of Human Nature
• Adam Smith—The Theory of Moral Sentiments and The Wealth of Nations
• Joseph Priestley—Disquisitions relating to Matter and Spirit
• Henry George—Progress and Poverty: An Inquiry into the Cause of Industrial Depressions and of Increase of Want with Increase of Wealth: The Remedy
• William Godwin—Enquiry concerning Political Justice, and its Influence on General Virtue and Happiness
• Leo Tolstoy—The Kingdom of God is Within You
• Karl Marx—Das Kapital
• Julien Offray de La Mettrie—Man a Machine "L'Homme Machine"
• Adi Shankara has potentially other treatises
• Aristotle—various treatises

• Other well-known treatises include:
  • Simone de Beauvoir—The Second Sex
  • Augustine of Hippo—various treatises
  • Adam of Bremen—Gesta Hammaburgensis ecclesiae pontificum
  • Carl von Clausewitz—On War
  • Bruce Lee—Tao of Jeet Kune Do
  • Euclid—Elements
  • Ptolemy—Geography (Treatise on cartography)
  • Geoffery Chaucer—The Parson's Tale
  • Thomas Paine—Rights of Man, Common Sense, and The Age of Reason
  • Charles Darwin—On the Origin of Species and The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex
  • James Clerk Maxwell—A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism
  • Anonymous—Secretum Secretorum, a Middle Ages general treatise
  • Yahya ibn Adi—The Reformation of Morals
  • Mario Bunge—Treatise on Basic Philosophy

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mbubel (talk • contribs) 03:03, 18 October 2019 (UTC) 

Modern works requiring time, authority or definition refinement

Reflecting on the treatise definition, self-help books seem to qualify. But, therein lies the rub. Self-help books are a genre and a sizeable one at that. Therefore, there is a distinction between treatises and self-help books.

Treatises and self-help books are both instructions though self-help books help the reader do something personal. Treatises, however, help the reader to do something for a society. Similarly, academic writing helps to further science and textbooks help educate.

Title	Author	Year	Subject	Reason why it is here
ISO 9000				We are waiting for time and subject matter assignment
Etiquette in Society, in Business, in Politics, and at Home	Emily Post	1922	Etiquette	This work blurs the line between a self-help book and a treatise. It is a self-help book, yet the outcome is for relationships...society. It seems worthy for further consideration. M) (talk) 18:14, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Criteria for inclusion

It seems to me that the choice of treatises included in the lists among the dozens if not hundreds of notable and illustrious treatises that have been written is somewhat arbitrary. Such lists also have a tendency to grow haphazardly into unwieldiness. Ideas for somewhat strict criteria for inclusion, anyone?  --Lambiam 20:26, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Lambiam as today we have around 40 uncategorized treatises and we have a number that might simply qualify as other works like a textbook. I've used popular definitions to establish further content and criteria.

M) (talk) 03:19, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

The page seems to be shaping up reasonably well. It would be great is someone else looked at the page design to offer feedback. I need to step away from it for a while.

M) (talk) 19:40, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

the Weston A. Price work Nutrition and Physical Degeneration is inspiring a new criteria. Let's compare it to the Art of War.

• If the AoW established the design of war, NoPD established the facts of nutrition.
• The AoW established phenomena and NaPD captured or classified phenomena that exists.

The NaPD is the science of nutrition much like a biography is a chronology of a person's life. Therefore, NaPD is not a treatise. It is more scientific writing or academic writing.

Not sure how to define this criteria yet.

M) (talk) 02:41, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Could a treatise be something that proves itself? I remember Albert Einstein had a theory, maybe e=mc2, that had decades without proof. Maybe this is the shortest treatise (I'm definitely not an expert here). I return to the Art of War as we all know it well. The AoW is structured that made the subject make sense---it proved itself. This may simplify the criteria or the assessment.

M) (talk) 03:01, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Not a treatise, kept for reference

A treatise is a genre, not a ranking within a genre. A treatise is not a category like a textbook that can contain works from multiple genres. When comparing the Vivekacūḍāmaṇi and the Tao Te Ching, both philosophical works, the treatise distinction becomes clear. The Vivekacūḍāmaṇi has a clear systematic discourse with a beginning, middle and end while the Tao Te Ching is fluidly organized. The Vivekacūḍāmaṇi, therefore, is in the treatise genre while the Tao Te Ching is in the wisdom literature genre. Yes, written works can appear in two or more genres, though by relevance instead of desire.

The works below are quite influential yet lack the qualities of a treatise as noted.

Title	Author	Year	Subject	Reason not a treatise
Super-Brain Breathing	Paul Bragg			Informal
What Color is Your Parachute?				Self-help book.
The book of Acts refers to the Gospel of Luke as "the former treatise"				A historical record, Religious text
Treatise (music), Treatise, a graphic score for any instrument(s)	Cornelius Cardew			Suited for disambiguation
Human Action	Ludwig Von Mises			An argument, Academic writing, Scientific writing
Tao Te Ching		~500 BC		Unclear structure, Wisdom Literature
The World	René Descartes	1600s	Physics	Academic writing, Scientific writing
Nutrition and Physical Degeneration	Weston A. Price			Academic Writing, Scientific Writing
Simulacra and Simulation				Lacking structure
On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft	Stephen King	2000	Writing	Incomplete scope

M) (talk) 02:45, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.2.81.60 (talk) 18:13, 12 October 2019 (UTC) 

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mbubel (talk • contribs) 01:34, 11 October 2019 (UTC)