Talk:Treasure Island/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Currency

At the risk of being over-picky, the stated payment to RLS of '34.7.6p' is in a form that never existed. The old British penny was abbreviated 'd' or 'D'; 'p' is the abbreviation for the post-decimal penny, which has a different value. Possible forms would be '£34 7/6' or '£34 7/6d' or '£34 7s 6d', but clearest to most readers would be '34 pounds seven shillings and sixpence'.Grubstreet 22:55, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. I've updated the article. -- Stbalbach 01:12, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
And if anyone is wondering, 1p = 2.4d. - Jmabel | Talk 06:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Sound = Able-bodied?

Regarding this quotation from RLS: "I will now make a confession. It was the sight of your maimed strength and masterfulness that begot Long John Silver...the idea of the maimed man, ruling and dreaded by the sound [speech], was entirely taken from you". I find the "[speech]" insertion confusing: from the context, I would assume Stevenson here uses "the sound" to mean "able-bodied people", as a contrast to "maimed man". potatoscone 01:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

No, he means "by the command of voice alone". Henley was a large strong man, but was also crippled. He was a strong force of a character, who got his way through his "voice" alone, is what RLS is tactfully saying. Long John Silver was the same way (maimed as a peg-legged, but clever in speech and character, he ruled over stronger men in a world ruled by brute force). -- Stbalbach 15:52, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Categories

Should we add Category:Fictional islands? -- Jmabel | Talk 04:54, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Go ahead if no one else negatively reponds to this (although this post is half a year later than yours...) The other thing is that although there are no pages for the movies, the article is on the novel. Shouldn't we change the catagories to reflect that? HereToHelp 21:28, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
FWIW the fictious island in the book is called Skeleton Island, not Treasure Island. Stbalbach 22:20, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Its called Skeleton Island by John Silver, to Jim it is known as Treasure Island. HuronKing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.224.38.124 (talk) 21:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Billy Bones

Billy Bones redirects here, but is not covered in the article. I think that either the redirect should be removed or he should be mentioned briefly. —msikma <user_talk:msikma> 18:32, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Bill Bones has exactly 0 other articles pointing to it. And it is a minor character in the book, it doesn't need its own article. -- Stbalbach 12:28, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Prequels and sequels

Article could mention "Porto Bello Gold", prequel to Treasure Island by A. D. Howden Smith. I'm not sure, but I think there was some sequel as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hyartep (talk • contribs) 21:02, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

There have been several sequels by other authors than RLS, most contradictory with one another. CFLeon 07:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Admiral Benbow

Admiral Benbow also redirects here; but unlike the case above, it's not even a character in the book, it's the name of the inn. And Benbow was a real person. This really should be changed, in case someone does put up a page for the historical figure. CFLeon 07:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

St. James Theater

I don't think reasonable material should be deleted without prior discussion. The introduction of the fate of the St. James's Theatre is perhaps a footnote to the fact that "Treasure Island" played there, but I think it belongs, because it draws attention to the importance of that special theatre in the history of London theatres. This was a tragedy for all concerned. If all such references were deleted from Wikipedia, the site would be severely limited in its scope.

Yes, an article would be best, but I don't have time to do it, and it may never happen.
I would be interested in someone else's input on this subject. But summary deletion without discussion is I think is impolite, to say the least. JohnClarknew 19:24, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
It was not my intention to be impolite. It's just that, a lengthy section on the history of a theater that has no real connection to the book is inappropriate for the article. I actually thought about deleting it entirely as being non-notable - Richard Drury, a noted Stevenson scholar, maintains a website with a pretty good collection of derivative works and this play is not mentioned - which makes me think it's not really that important or notable. But, Richard could be wrong, so I left it in. But I thought it went too far to use this article as the place to talk about the history of the theater. No disrespect to you or the theater. It turns out the theatre article is extant at St James's Theatre, so I added the history you wrote there. -- Stbalbach 01:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
You're right, it looks much better now, so thank you for your explanation, and moving my contribution (I'm a new user, still learning.) Our production was performed during the day, not at night, a long series of daily matinees so school children could get to see it. Which is probably why Richard Drury missed it. He should add it in to his site, though, it belongs. Take care. JohnClarknew 05:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
John, I now see your the same John who starred as Jim Hawkins in the play (I assume). I've emailed Richard Drury and let him know how to contact you on Wikipedia if he needs additional info, I'm sure he'll add it to the list. Thanks! -- Stbalbach 15:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

NPOV Violations

This is regarding the following sentences paragraphs:

Traditionally considered a coming of age story, it is an adventure tale known for its superb atmosphere, character and action, and also a wry commentary on the ambiguity of morality—as seen in Long John Silver—unusual for children's literature then and now. It is one of the most frequently dramatised of all novels. "The effect of Treasure Island on our perception of pirates cannot be overestimated. Stevenon linked pirates forever with maps, black schooners, tropical islands, and one-legged seamen with parrots on their shoulders."

"The effect of Treasure Island on our perception of pirates cannot be overestimated. Stevenon linked pirates forever with maps, black schooners, tropical islands, and one-legged seamen with parrots on their shoulders. The treasure map with an X marking the location of the buried treasure is one of the most familiar pirate props,", yet it is entirely a fictional invention which owes its origin to Stevenson's original map. The term "Treasure Island" has passed into the language as a common phrase, and is often used as a title for games, rides, places, etc.

Using words like "superb" and "wry" to describe the book is cleary POV. Also, saying its influence on our perception of pirates can not be overestimate cleary violates the guidelines as well. Please see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. 156.34.211.20 18:08, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Taking POV to mean we can't comment on the artistic merit and style of a work is inaccurate - I mean, if there was some reason to disagree with these descriptions, then we can present those views also, but TI is widely known as a classic work. I've never seen anyone with any credentials or of literary significance pan it. All of these statements are easily supportable with citations if you really must.
Quoting scholars with citations is allowed and encouraged on Wikipedia. In particular when that scholar is the leading researcher of pirate lore and whose book Under the Black Flag is one of the best known in the field. You make it seem like it is "controversial". It has nothing to do with the POV rule, this is what the experts say about the book.
That line about "widely known as the best adaptation" which you keep adding back in is bunk. I looked up the reviews of that show on MRQE and not only could find no reviewer who called a faithful adaptation, most everyone said just the opposite, that it sucked. Please stop adding that back unless you have a cited quote to support it.
The brit lit template was removed based on a prior agreement with another user, please stop adding that back in.
Finally - please login with your account - why are you using an anon IP? -- Stbalbach 19:07, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
1. Good point. : )
2. Good point. : )
3., 4. Sorry, I didn't actually add those back in, I use the article history and edit a previous version so I didn't know. I'm sure that I added a {{Fact}} for #3 in case the user that added that has proof. #4 Oops. That was automatically added back in. 156.34.212.240 03:08, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
"cannot be overestimated" is an unclear idiom, often used in hyperbole, and literally incorrect ... whether this is POV or not, let's change it to something simpler and clearer. Stumps 06:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
also, directly quoting a source in a lead section is highly unusual ... is there a style guideline against this? ... can't we use our own (better) words and simply refer to the source in the footnote ... why do we need to quote this?? Stumps 06:48, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I quoted it because David Cordingly's opinion really does count for something about this, it puts a strong emphasis on the point being made to include Cordingly's "overestimated". Style guidelines would not apply to direct quotations. Your right about quotes (and footnotes) in the lead section, I've summarized it. -- Stbalbach 14:52, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Dead (Man's) Chest

Mostly as an aid to useful cross-referencing, may I suggest that in the geography section a brief addition is made that Norman Island (already mentioned) is only a mile or two from the island that I'm sure is called Dead Chest on my nautical charts but is known in these pages as Dead Man's Chest, a possible inspiration for the song in Treasure Island (which has its own Wikipedia entry).Grubstreet 00:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm need a source, unclear if Stevenson knew the island by that name, or if it was a later name. -- Stbalbach 15:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, as the article links off to another about the shanty, and the latter links off to one about the island, keen people are going to find their way to it eventually anyway, so my suggestion is, on reflection, not a very valuable one. FYI, though, the island has been called Dead Chest since at least 1775, as the scan of an antique Virgin Islands chart at http://www.davidrumsey.com/maps6438.html indicates. But with only legend to support the uncle bringing home tales of the Virgin Islands, I guess the real question is not whether RLS knew of Dead Chest by another name (why should he?), but whether he knew of it at all. Grubstreet 18:12, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Seems like a reasonable and interesting idea, never heard of it before, but for Wikipedia purposes we would need some kind of reference. Stevenson is probably one of the most bio'd authors in history, maybe in some of the 100s of bio's it has been mentioned. Maybe Google Books could help, or once they have more books scanned online. -- Stbalbach 15:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The main character is not a radio presenter

The main characters section links to Jim Hawkins which is an article on a British radio presenter and not the main character. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.213.142.2 (talk) 20:26, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Who was marooned?

The list of members of Flint's crew (in the "Backstory" section) misplaces the description "marooned on Treasure Island". It is placed next to the name of Morgan, but he is seen by Jim in Silver's establishment before taking ship. It was Ben Gunn who was marooned, listed just before Morgan. Cpgray 18:33, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

In the end of the story-its Dick Johnson, Morgan and a third unamed mutineer who are marrooned on Treasure Island after the Hispanola leaves witht the treasure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.53.145.52 (talk) 11:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Historical timeframe

This section reads like original research. As far as I know there is nothing from Stevenson himself on this subject, it is pure conjecture. Has anyone written about this, besides on Wikipedia? -- 71.191.36.194 05:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

The rescue at the rifled cache

I have corrected this. Only the Doctor, Ben Gunn and Abraham Gray arrived to rescue Silver and Hawkins. Smollett was still incapacitated, and Trelawny stayed behind to guard him and the treasure. Captain Pedant 12:08, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

"under pretense of payment for his inn tab"

Actually, Mrs. Hawkins wasn't operating under any pretense. The text makes it clear that she was anxious to claim no more than her just dues, and was too stubborn to take less, which caused Jim much anxiety especially since most of the coinage was foreign and she could only make her reckoning in English guineas, frustratingly the rarest coins in Bones's collection. It was the untimely arrival of the pirates that led her to flee with what she had and Jim (the tally still being short) to take the interesting sealed packet as a makeweight. Captain Pedant 11:46, 12 May 2007 (UTC) This story is marvelous all over years —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.10.40.94 (talk) 13:15, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Ben Gunn and his right to the treasure.

Since Ben Gunn was marooned on the island along with the treasure he was the legal custodian of it. This means that he had sole ownership of the treasure. Yet in the book he only received a small portion of the entire value. If this is the case could it be that the leadership of the expedition had stolen it from him?

You should read the terms that Ben Gunn establishes with Jim in the chapter "The Man of the Island." In it Ben Gunn promises Jim a share of the treasure because he was the first one to find him. Also, Ben Gunn promises that he would share equally with the gentlemen provided he gets a passage home. So no, nobody "stole" the treasure from him and in fact he probably received more of the treasure than anyone else and he still managed to blow it all gambling in a matter of weeks. HuronKing.
He probably didn't receive the largest share and maybe not even a fair one, as the Squire and (especially, I suspect, given the established characterisation) the Doctor judged him completely incapable of managing money. But after he had proved them right by wasting his share in less than three weeks, the gentlemen saw to it that he would receive a steady though not lavish income for the rest of his days. Captain Pedant 11:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
On rereading, Gunn in the first place was willing to give all the treasure for safe passage home, except that he wanted a thousand pounds for himself. This in itself is evidence of his lack of money wisdom (since the hoard amounted to seven hundred thousand pounds), and as stated he still managed to waste the thousand in nineteen days. This is truly conspicuous consumption given that such a sum would be worth thirty to fifty times as much in modern terms, and there was less to spend it on in the late 1700s. Even Pew (as remarked upon earlier in the story by Silver) got through "only" £1200 in a year.Captain Pedant 14:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Ben Gunn was a pirate and would've been hanged upon return home, so first he established that the Squire was a liberal man and wouldn't turn him in, especially if he surrendered the treasure and assisted in the fight against Long John's pirates. He asked for a 1000 pounds for himself, which was a daring proposition from a pirate, even a reformed one. But he got it and promptly lost it all within 3 weeks (or 19 days to be precise). Too many thimblesful of rum, says I. Not to mention he was a bit crazy, which is absolutely normal for someone who's been alone for 3 years, as Dr. Livesey promptly noted to Jim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.30.147.192 (talk) 06:38, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Treasure.Island.Cover.jpg

Image:Treasure.Island.Cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:27, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I've address the fair-use rational to the best of my abilities. The original uploader appears to be dormant, so I could not state with confidence the source of the image. I am posting here, maybe someone will know where the image came from. In the mean-time, I've removed the disputed tag. Yngvarr 17:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fidra

The island of Fidra, off the coast of North Berwick, Scotland, is the island upon which Stephenson based the island in the story. The map he drew, included in most editions of the story, is a map of a scaled-up version of Fidra. I just think this deserves a mention, although I don't have any references myself. Fionnlaoch (talk) 10:23, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Restored Sections Deleted Without Explanation

Recently, several important sections of this article (History and Plot Summary, including the list of Main Characters) were deleted by anonymous editors without explanation, in one case by an editor who replaced an entire section with obvious vandalism. The vandalism was reverted but not the content. Given the length of the article, these sections (and others) may indeed need some editing, or even to be split from the main article, but their complete deletion without discussion seemed unwarranted. --Arxiloxos (talk) 01:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Captain Hawkins

I added a bit to the information about Captain Hawkins from PotC2 being Jim Hawkins' "lost father". Seeing how he was never lost, but ill, and dies in chapter three rather than at the hands of the East India Company, I figured I'd point out the error in their thinking. 82.92.150.193 14:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Good catch. I changed it from "impossible" to "contrary", anything is possible in fiction :) -- Stbalbach 16:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Perfect. I like your way of wording it better anyway. Why, by the way, do neither of our edits show up for me in the original article? I can see them on the history page, but the article remains the same for me. 82.92.64.247 09:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
What about the 1973 animated version???
What about it? 82.92.150.193 21:00, 27 January 2007 (UTC
In the walt disney 1950 version it never mentions Jims father, so it could fit with that one, sense they are both disney — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.177.231.136 (talk) 12:15, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Copyvio of plot summary

Most of the plot summary has been copied and pasted verbatim from SparkNotes (http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/treasure/summary.html). We need to fix this immediately. --Hnsampat (talk) 18:35, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

The material seems to have been pasted by an IP editor in April of 2005, here. Internet archives confirm their prior publication. There was no plot summary in the article prior to this violation which can be restored. I am about to excise the material. Never having read the book (I know! And me with an MA in lit!), I'll leave a new plot summary to somebody who has. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:48, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from this URL: http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/treasure/summary.html. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a license compatible with GFDL. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:48, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Plot summary

There is none. There's information about the background to the plot, and some info about the characters, but no actual plot summary. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 04:57, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Never mind. I found one in the history and restored it. Seriously, don't delete what's probably what 99% of people are coming to this article looking for: A description of the text. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 05:04, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
That plot summary was deleted because it was copied-and-pasted from SparkNotes in violation of copyright, as described above. I've removed it again. Please feel free to write a new plot summary, but please do not add that one back. --Hnsampat (talk) 15:41, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, I wrote a new plot summary. Can we take down the warning now (so people will understand the present summary is not the one taken from SparkNotes?)Pirate Dan (talk) 14:02, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Treasure Island/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

In order to uphold the quality of Wikipedia:Good articles, all articles listed as Good articles are being reviewed against the GA criteria as part of the GA project quality task force. While all the hard work that has gone into this article is appreciated, unfortunately, as of June 29, 2009, this article fails to satisfy the criteria, as detailed below. For that reason, the article has been delisted from WP:GA. However, if improvements are made bringing the article up to standards, the article may be nominated at WP:GAN. If you feel this decision has been made in error, you may seek remediation at WP:GAR.

Start GA Reassessment. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:48, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Quick fail criteria assessment

  1. The article completely lacks reliable sources – see Wikipedia:Verifiability.
    Although there are some references, large parts of the article are not confirmed by [[WP:RS}}
  2. The topic is treated in an obviously non-neutral way – see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view.
  3. There are cleanup banners that are obviously still valid, including cleanup, wikify, NPOV, unreferenced or large numbers of fact, clarifyme, or similar tags.
    • As per above very little referencing. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:48, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. The article is or has bee#::n the subject of ongoing or recent, unresolved edit wars.
  5. The article specifically concerns a rapidly unfolding current event with a definite endpoint.

FAIL I am going to immediately de-list this article as it will need a lot of work to bring it up to GA status. Specifically in the History, Themes and conflicts, and Actual history sections. The last is a list (of mostly trivia) which is not recommended by WP:MOS. Please bring back to WP:GAN when these concerns have been addressed. Please familiarise yourselves with the good article criteria and endeavour to meet them. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:48, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Treasure Island as a Bildungsroman???

In the resume, the novel is described as 'a coming-of-age novel', and this label leads to the following article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildungsroman Now, I think everyone familiar with what Bildungsroman is, would agree that Treasure Island is really quite far from Wilhelm Meister, David Copperfield, or Sons and Lovers... This label here is really strange. Ivanicov (talk) 22:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

ALternative Confused/Dates?

  • Certainly the novel while fine reading has a confused chronology regarding dates:
  • Date on map August 1, 1750
  • Date map given by Flint to Bones July 20, 1754
  • Silver claims Pew spent all his money in one year and that two years before his death Pew was straving and killing.
  • If Flint's crew was disbanded 1754 {Flint dies and Map given to Bones}+ 3 years=1757. Thus the Odius "French" Could refer to the Seven Years War.
  • HOwever Sliver also claimed that the same broadside in which he lost his leg-Pew was blinded-and that both he and Pew came back to England-which according to the chronolongy would have been about 1721 or 1722 when Robert's men were hanged. A confusion arises because Silver also claims he and Pew were with Flint at the time of their wounding-yet the treasure was buried in 1750 {Map date} and Pew had turned to begging three years-presumedly after 1754-when Flint gave map to Bones and died!
  • If 1757 was the correct date-and Silver was 50-this ment he was a Pirate Quartermaster at the age of 14/15-if the 1721/22 date is when he lost his leg!
  • ALso when Silver defends Hawkins in the stockade from the other mutineers-Silver claims its been nearly 30 years since he last faught anyone! This would jibe well that he was in his twenties when he sailed with Flint and when he lost his leg. Prehaps the confusion lies in the fact that the dates on the map are given as "1750" and "1754"--preahps it would have been more correct-if Stevenson {or whoever drew the map} had replaced these dates as "1720" and "1724"-and thus the novel chronology works out as:
    • John Silver born later 1699s/1700.
    • 1717-1720 Silver is a pirate with England and then with Flint
    • 1720-1721 Silver loses his leg and returns to England and opens a tavern in Bristol
    • 1724 Flint dies in Savannah and gives map to Bones
    • 1749-1750 Silver sails on Hispaniola to retrieve Flint treasure-and escapes to Spanish America
  • LAstly there is an indiret hint that even if the munity had gone the Silver wanted it to-going halfway home before starting it-it would have failed. Silver himself admits that while the mutinous seamen can sail the ship-Smollet is the only one who could navigate it correctly!!
It's pretty hard to reconcile the map and the text without assuming some sort of error or exaggeration on the part of one or the other. One doubtful assumption that you make, however, is that following their wounds, Silver and Pew would have had to have retired from piracy; though in fact Silver specifically states that "I was quartermaster, along of my timber leg", implying that he was one-legged most of the time that he served with Flint, which leads us to the inescapable conclusion that Pew must have been blind for the same duration. It's hard to imagine what Flint would have done with a blind pirate on board the Walrus, but perhaps Pew got by on sheer viciousness.
We can get a 1757 date if we doubt Silver's veracity, which is easy enough; he could have been inserting himself into stories that he'd heard from other pirates, and maybe even come to believe them to some extent. Alternatively, he really could have been 13 or younger when he turned to a life of piracy -- Jim Hawkins was hardly much older, and Silver says that he "always wanted [Hawkins] to jine and take your share, and die a gentleman", perhaps seeing a bit of himself in Jim. But Silver is very little likely to have "laid by nine hundred [pounds] safe, from England" if he were just a cabin boy -- he'd have had to have been a more senior member of the crew.
The other possibility is that the dates on the map are wrong, and instead of "1750" and "1754" they should read something like "1740" and "1745".
Silver claims its been nearly 30 years since he last faught anyone! -- I don't think that's really what he means. Not in this quote anyway: Cross me, and you’ll go where many a good man’s gone before you, first and last, these thirty year back—some to the yard-arm, shiver my timbers, and some by the board, and all to feed the fishes. There’s never a man looked me between the eyes and seen a good day a’terwards, Tom Morgan, you may lay to that.”
And yes, the mutineers, ex-pirates and others were an unusually incompetent lot! As Silver says, "I've a sick heart to sail with the likes of you!" RandomCritic 12:37, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Do you really believe anything Silver says? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.30.147.192 (talk) 06:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

A couple of points. Silver's quote re 30 years surely means that it is 30 years since he started killing people who crossed him. The last thing he is suggesting is that he has ever stopped! "Watch out! I'm a man who used to murder people who crossed me, but I don't any more," would be a pretty feeble threat! And the matter of Smollet being the only qualified navigator is far from intractable. Although it would have required require considerable skill to navigate from a mid-voyage point to, say, Bristol, it would have been the most rudimentary matter to sail either directly east or directly west. If Smollet was taking a fairly direct route back to England, for example, by waiting until the voyage was well under way, the mutineers would have allowed him to handle the trickiest bits (leaving the Antilles and not crashing into the Bahamas) just leaving them to steer west for the Carolinas. A bit risky, perhaps, but not the sort of thing to terrify seasoned pirates, I wouldn't have thought. Grubstreet (talk) 23:01, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Silver's "timber leg," Silver specifically says that he learned his craft as a sailor while in the navy. In fact, he specifically mentions that he was a "master mariner," which indicates he was an officer on a warship (yes, the pirate could have been lying regarding his former rank) and that he lost his leg in battle. However, with the skills of a former naval officer (incidentally, who would have been trained in navigation) he would have had an easy time keeping a job with a pirate crew. (He was likely lying about serving under Captain England given the dates.) Also, Silver was Flint's quartermaster, which in the Royal Navy is the helmsman's position; oddly he was rather well paid for a "man before the mast" as he counts himself. Given that his one-legged status does not seem to make him any less lethal a pirate -- he takes down a man by nailing him in the spine with his crutch! -- there is no reason to suppose that he retired from the life of a gentleman of fortune because he had one leg. He retired because Flint died. Also, at no point did Silver say his crew of mutineers couldn't navigate. He said that 1) it was easier to let Smollet navigate their way back not that he couldn't do it himself, and 2) that the reason they are waiting is because they don't know where they are going. While for whatever reason Smollet is able to give the exact coordinates for Treasure Island (and it's never at any point explained how he knew, from what I recall) it is heavily implied that the pirates do not know where the island is, nor where precisely on the island the treasure is located. Obviously they have to let Smollet guide them to Treasure Island. Atypicaloracle (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:28, 13 November 2010 (UTC).

I downloaded a copy of Stevenson's map, that he drew (2nd copy, becuase his publishers lost the first one). However, it states on it "William Bones Savannah 1745". Possibly I am wrong, but if Flint spent 20 years plundering the Spanish Main, then he would have begun pirating at LEAST by 1725, because he died in 1745. If Flint died 3 years before the story of Treasure Island begins, then Silver was Born in 1698. All dates from the book can be figured from the date on the map. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.249.101.172 (talk) 15:08, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Peter Pan cartoon external reference

Presently reading the book and just checked out the page. One Peter Pan reference (the novel) refers to Long John being the one who feared only Capt Hook. The cartoon reference at the very bottom says it was Flint, but says that the cartoon references only the name "Barbecue" --- but in Treasure Island, Barbecue _is_ Long John Silver, in both narration and direct address within a quote.

Having never seen the cartoon, I thought I'd stick this in the 'talk' for someone else to verify.

71.56.54.74 (talk) 04:58, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I have a 1908 Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson ; Pub. in New York by Charles Scribner's Sons"; illustrated by a "Wal Paget" ( credited only as signature on each plate). No previous edition date is given; dedication to S.L.O. by "The Author"; 8 illustration plates. I'm wondering why it is not listed in the aditions you have on your site. I have checked the ones there and my book has different info. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.37.199 (talk) 15:36, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Sources

An interesting article in a recent issue of the TLS discusses the sources of Treasure Island acknowledged by RLS and mentions the possibility of another unacknowledged source, namely the story Billy Bo'swain by Charles E. Pearce, which appeared in seventeen installments in Young Folks. I think it would be interesting to include a section in the article that lists the various acknowledged literary sources of the story and the possibility of the plagiaristic use of this unacknowledged source. Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 17:19, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

As another data point, the Treasure and Buried treasure articles both mention the "I believe plagiarism was rarely carried farther" reference to Washington Irving's work, but the Treasure Island article doesn't. To quote RLS: "I have begun (and finished) a number of other books, but I cannot remember to have sat down to one of them with more complacency. It is not to be wondered at, for stolen waters are proverbially sweet. I am now upon a painful chapter. No doubt the parrot once belonged to Robinson Crusoe. No doubt the skeleton is conveyed from Poe. I think little of these, they are trifles and details; and no man can hope to have a monopoly of skeletons or make a corner in talking birds. The stockade, I am told, is from MASTERMAN READY. It may be, I care not a jot. These useful writers had fulfilled the poet's saying: departing, they had left behind them Footprints on the sands of time, Footprints which perhaps another - and I was the other! It is my debt to Washington Irving that exercises my conscience, and justly so, for I believe plagiarism was rarely carried farther. I chanced to pick up the TALES OF A TRAVELLER some years ago with a view to an anthology of prose narrative, and the book flew up and struck me: Billy Bones, his chest, the company in the parlour, the whole inner spirit, and a good deal of the material detail of my first chapters - all were there, all were the property of Washington Irving." 85.228.174.196 (talk) 11:07, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
ok — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.26.230.48 (talk) 19:41, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Time Frame section is OR

Reading the section on Time Frame, it seems to me to be complete original reasearch. While it quotes various sources, they are there to support a synthesis of the approximate date of the book's story. No references are given which independently support that final conclusion. I am not saying that the synthesis is in error, but that it should not be written in that manner. Dabbler (talk) 14:59, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

I disagree that the story is unusual in "children's literature."

It's a late-20th century phenomenon that have children's stories be kind and nice. Fairytales generally are not nice when viewed with a modern lens. Why should Treasure Island have been different? 24.215.188.243 (talk) 21:27, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

The comment does not refer to the story not being kind or nice. It refers to the moral ambiguity of accepting the treasure hunting greed of the supposedly good crew and also its author's not so hidden sympathy with the scary and murderous Silver. Though it would be good to have a critical reference for this aside.Dabbler (talk) 22:40, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

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Dates

Where did the year the story took place in mentioned in this article come from? My copy of the book states the year as 17--. 82.92.150.193 21:03, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

What date? -- Stbalbach 15:17, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Under "Plot Summary" it says:
In 1761, an old and menacing sea captain referred to as Billy Bones appears...

The only specific dates I know of associated with the story are the 1750 and 1754 on the treasure map. 1761 is a plausible date, but not AFAIR supported directly by the book; we only know that Flint died more than three years earlier than the events described. The dates and references in the book, however, although all referencing the 18th century, are not particularly consistent with each other. Silver is said to have sailed with England before Flint, but England died in 1720, and Silver would have had to have been extremely young at the time -- if the book were indeed set in 1761, he would have been only 9, and Silver suggests that his career in piracy commenced only thirty years earlier. The latest date - actually, the only date - specified in the book itself (not the map) is 1745, though it's implied that that's several years earlier. The Battle of Fontenoy, also in 1745, is referenced. A plausible reading of the text itself is that the action takes place c. 1750 (with Silver born c. 1700, and commencing his piratical career not far from 1720). But this is inconsistent with the map.RandomCritic 22:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Under "Timeframe" in says: 

Flint is likely to have died less than three years before the events of the novel (the length of time that Ben Gunn was marooned), as Ben Gunn seems to be not aware of his death.

That contradicts that "The Treasure-hunt—The Voice Among the Trees" chapter part: 

"They was his last words," moaned Morgan, "his last words above board."
Dick had his Bible out and was praying volubly. He had been well brought up, had Dick, before he came to sea and fell among bad companions.
Still Silver was unconquered. I could hear his teeth rattle in his head, but he had not yet surrendered.
"Nobody in this here island ever heard of Darby," he muttered; "not one but us that's here."

Ben Gunn was the only one who knew Flint's last words except those remaining bunch of pirates.

The whole exercise of trying to date the novel seems to be mostly unreferenced Original Research and therefore not admissable in Wikipedia. This was tagged nearly two years ago and no attempt has been made to reference it. Accordingly I have removed the parts that I consider OR. Dabbler (talk) 23:30, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Treasure Island (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 06:02, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Controversies

Don't totally understand the "Controversies" section under "Background". None of the content of the section seems particularly controversial. I suggest a renaming of the section, but I'm not sure what to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael7198 (talk • contribs) 23:37, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Both the subheadings were just parts of Background really so I've cut them and re-ordered the paragraphs a bit. Still maybe some re-writing and re-arranging needed.twl_corinthian (talk) 10:51, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Move From Literary characters introduced in 1883

The character pages should be moved to "Literary characters introduced in 1881" and 1882 as that is the year the book was first published as a serial. There is a precedent for categorizing characters in this way. Although the Mysterious Island was published in 1875 as a book, it was published in 1874 as a serial. Thus, Cyrus Smith is in "Literary characters introduced in 1874". Although The Picture of Dorian Gray was published as a book in 1891, a shorter version was published in a magazine in 1890. Thus, Dorian Gray is in "Literary characters introduced in 1890". 2600:1012:B15D:B12E:4138:7E54:F322:569D (talk) 09:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

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