Talk:Transmutation of species

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History of species[edit]

I have a prepared discussion of the history of species concepts. It is work in progress, and some of it is not yet published, but if you like I could write something. Because Wikipedia doesn't accept original work, I haven't submitted it there. Would the editors like to let me know if it is acceptable here? It develops out of my PhD work. John Wilkins (talk) 12:58, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you can expand the page based on reliable sources independent of your own work, you are doing us a great favour. If you wish to add references to your own work, make sure it is published in peer-reviewed journals or a reliable publisher, and do not be unduly self-serving (i.e. John Wilkins completely revolutionized the conception of species is right out unless you are quoting someone else saying that. And that someone has to be reliable). WLU (talk) 13:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well I have, but that's another matter :-) OK, I'll work up an encyclopedia style article on views on transformism, as soon as I get breathing time.John Wilkins (talk) 03:06, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Material moved from history of evolutionary thought[edit]

I have moved a large amount of information to his article from History of evolutionary thought as part of an effort to streamline that article. I have provided the same citations of reliable sources that were used for that material in the original article.Rusty Cashman (talk) 17:06, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I recall reading that Sir Francis Bacon recommended a study of transmutation between species as worthwhile for young researchers. If I find the reference I will add it. --69.196.142.40 (talk) 19:43, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Transformism[edit]

The article begins: "Transmutation of species was a term used by Jean Baptiste Lamarck in 1809 for his theory that described the altering of one species into another, and the term is often used to describe 19th century evolutionary ideas that preceded Charles Darwin's theory of natural selection...." Strange then that the French WP's article is called "Transformisme", which anglicized as "Transformism" is an effective red-link on en:wp (goes to Italian politics in the 60s) that has massive results on JSTOR etc. Can someone sort this out? Johnbod (talk) 17:18, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Transformism / transformisme is a term used in the history of biology in France to refer to evolutionary change over time. The term "transformism" is alleged to have been coined by Paul Broca in 1867 but I cannot confirm this. Skeptic from Britain (talk) 14:58, 29 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Richard Owen on Mutable or Immutable Species[edit]

"Richard Owen believed that each species was fixed and unchangeable"

On the Richard Owen page, it says the opposite, that Owen said that humans could have descended from fish through natural means. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 00:08, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

From the Richard Owen page: "Owen had been criticized for his own evolutionary remarks in his Nature of the Limbs in 1849.[16] At the end of On the Nature of Limbs Owen had suggested that humans ultimately evolved from fish as the result of natural laws,[17] which resulted in his being criticized in the Manchester Spectator for denying that species such as humans were created by God.[7]"

Is it that Owen presented evolutionary thinking, got shot down, and from then on denied it? Jonathan Tweet (talk) 00:16, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

See Richard Owen#Owen, Darwin, and the theory of evolution – Owen supported the establishment rejection of transmutation, and attacked Grant for such ideas in 1838, but in the 1840s came round to ideas of idea of development from archetypes in "ordained continuous becoming". So, from opposing evolutionary ideas and getting a position as leader of UK science on hat basis, he gradually shifted to the extent that he claimed priority over Darwin's On the Origin of Species. Mostly covered in Desmond and Moore's Darwin, there are more detailed sources cited in the Owen bio. Improvement of that bio would be welcome. . . dave souza, talk 10:53, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]