Talk:Tramp

Merge

It seems like some of these entries could be merged: tramp, vagabond, bum, hobo. All these words mean almost exactly the same thing. I think of these as a single concept, and the different words add only minor variation. NatureTM (talk) 23:59, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I'd suggest that all four of these terms shuld be retained for clarity, arising as they do mainly from the difference between US English and UK English. Both hobo and bum should re-direct here, although vagabond may have more connotations of highwayman/ robber? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

The word "bum" is etymologically connected to the verb beg. While I agree with you, that bum is now synonymous with tramp, the etymologies between these two words suggest a different basis for distinguishing them by. Dexter Nextnumber (talk)

Untitled comments

Um...I think this page has been vandalized...who is Sam Clifford?

If you just define tramp it isn't enough for an encyclopedia. The wikipedia isn't a dictionary.

Looks like

Actually it's about hobos. Ellsworth

Tramp is a very common term in the UK, used both as a derogatory term and to describe homeless people. A certain "shabby" look is associated with it. It's also become, for some of the younger generations, a synonym for "slut" or "tart". -- Sam

The latter is also common in American English. Ellsworth 15:13, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Bum archaic?

I would argue that 'bum' is not in archaic usage. I hear it somewhat regularly and use it myself.

to is officially mentioned in books of trades guilds. they were paid a daily rate to tramp from village to village or town seeking work within their guild. workers would seeki work tramping throughout france, germany and other european countries in this way.

Removed abuse

i removed some abuse

also the word hobo and bum are rarely if ever used in the UK. Primarialy its homeless person or tramp tramp can also be used to refer to people who are seen as dirty - similar connotations to the word slut —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.160.17 (talk) 09:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Picture

The caption on the picture of a tramp reads "Another photo of the tramp I see day-to-day in Sheffield city centre." If you see him in the same place every day, is he a "tramp"?

66.135.159.226 04:31, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Picture removed

I have removed the picture from the article due to several concerns.

• It does not further illustrate the concept of 'tramp' to the reader.
• Since there is an offensive connotation to the word 'tramp', especially in the US, it is unkind to label the person in the picture as such. No pictures on pages like slut, etc...
• From this picture, it is not even clear that he IS a 'tramp'. He just looks like a bearded man, standing there, arms folded. He could be anyone. There is no indication from this picture that he even is homeless. For all we know, this could be a man who has a house and just doesn't keep up his appearance.

I think not only is this picture unsuitable for the article, but using any picture of a real person to illustrate a pejorative term is inappropriate. ~Eliz81^(C) 05:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with all of the above. It is inappropriate to make assumptions about what may simply be a man with a beard standing bundled up in cold weather. The term "tramp" is more far-reaching, has multiple meanings and definitions to many people, and a picture really cannot illustrate the concept in a way words cannot. To the anonymous IP that continues to re-add the image, please discuss it here and let us know why you are so interested in having this particular image in the article, perhaps there is something that we're unaware of. Thanks! Ariel♥Gold 03:59, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Historical Context?

First note: after the bulleted list, the article asserts that there is a difference between "tramp" and "hobo" but does not explain what that difference is. (Judging by the definitions the article gives, they appear to be the same thing!)

Second, where is the historical context for the usage of these terms? Definitions and simple explanations are fine as starters to an article, but where is the substance? For instance, an article[1] about the Panic of 1873 states that after factories closed and ex-Civil War soldiers lost their jobs, "The terms 'tramp' and 'bum,' both indirect references to former soldiers, became commonplace American terms" as those workers became homeless and transient.

The Chronicle of Higher Education article quoted above does not go into any more detail, but certainly the evolution of the terms "tramp" and "bum" and their relationship to homeless Civil War veterans should be explained in their Wikipedia page. Can someone add this information? Bosterson (talk) 16:16, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

You are all completely wrong

The word 'tramp' derives from e England.

On the passing of the Poor Laws of 1832, it became a criminal offence to be vagrant and homeless. The penalty was you could be locked up in the Poor House for a month, doing mailbag sewing to earn your keep.

This was superseded by the invention of the 'Spike'. The Spike offered you a place to sleep and a meal, and then the obligatory sermon and prayers. You were then locked in for the night and ejected at 6 AM next morning. Now the way he law worked, was you couldn't stay in the same Spike more than once every month, so you were forced to walk to the next spike, and they were all placed about ones days walk apart. So for more than 100 years, this bizarre ritual of vagrant people (usually men) 'tramping' from one spike to the next, round and round the country, constantly kept on the move, took place.

George Orwell wrote a brilliant account of it in' Down and Out in Paris and London'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.207.51 (talk) 21:47, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I completely agree - I was going to add this explanation and discover that it has already been done. In England the Poor Law required a homeless person to move on every three days, so a network of Workhouses and Poor Law hostels ('Spikes') grew up one day's walk apart, and the homeless 'tramped' from one to the other in an endless peripatetic circuit. This is why the settled population saw so many 'tramps' passing through their villages and towns and along their roads, and why the word 'tramp' became ubiquitous. And why, with the repeal of the Poor Laws and the introduction of Social Security, tramps are no longer seen and have morphed into the relatively fixed 'homeless' and 'street sleepers'. There was a concerted policy under the Thatcher government to close all Spikes - driving the homeless on to the streets; the last and biggest was the Camberwell Spike which closed c 1980. Indeed, the word has almost fallen out of usage in Britain, being seen as pejorative and archaic.Wolstan Dixie (talk) 22:40, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Spike#Other_uses says: "* Spike, a colloquial name for a workhouse". But that's not very accurate. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:45, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, I am not sure - without researching the Poor Laws in detail my vague feeling is that Workhouses were generally split into two areas, one for the resident paupers of the parish, and one for the transient tramps, probably both had to do some sort of work like picking hemp or breaking road stone, the tramps before they moved on, so Spike and Workhouse may be synonymous? The tramp's accommodation surely wouldn't be provided free?Wolstan Dixie (talk) 10:41, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Eric Blair, in his short essay "Clink" recounts his December 1931 attempt to get arrested by showing up drunk at a spike and thus violating the Vagrancy Act. W. H. Davies had had similar experiences while tramping in America. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:52, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Is there a difference between a tramp and a hobo? Sufficient for 2 articles? And, are they derogatories?

We don't have a wikipedia article on all the different ethnic terms we all despise. Isn't the non-perjorative term vaganond? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brothercanyouspareadime (talk • contribs) 02:49, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

This is not what tramp means in America

Tramp is a synonym for slut, or whore. How is there not any mention of this? 71.192.108.214 (talk) 17:01, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

That's on the the Tramp (disambiguation) page. —howcheng {chat} 09:55, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

In which case Son of Hickory Holler's Tramp should perhaps go there. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:48, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

File:Tramp smoking cigar with cane over arm - restoration.jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Tramp smoking cigar with cane over arm - restoration.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on February 11, 2012. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2012-02-11. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! —howcheng {chat} 09:51, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Picture of the day

A romanticized depiction of a tramp smoking a cigar with a cane over his arm, from an 1899 poster. A tramp is a homeless person who travels from place to place as a vagrant, traditionally on foot. Unlike other temporarily homeless people, they do not seek out regular work and support themselves by other means such as begging or scavenging. The term "tramp" is derived from the Middle English as a verb meaning to "walk with heavy footsteps" (cf. the modern English word "trample").Image: United States Printing Company; Restoration: Adam Cuerden

The editor above is correct. The POTD wording, saying that tramp in British English means "not a traveling one", should be removed. How can this be done to the POTD wording?--ML5 (talk) 10:52, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism Fix

I've just had to fix some damage I spotted on our talk page on here before ClueBot NG did MORE damage to our reputation, i've no idea what I deleted, I just suggest that someone check out what's been removed and fix it. 82.33.215.26 (talk) 08:47, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, it's since been reverted. --McGeddon (talk) 09:02, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

ClueBot NG picked up a second Vandalsim hit from this IP Address and it seems like it's the same person. I will be adding it to the Vandalism log of User:CHCSPrefect when I log in but in the mean time I am asking if someone could block this IP's access to the edit page of this article? It clearly has nothing good to add. 82.33.215.26 (talk) 11:26, 16 October 2012 (UTC)