Talk:Thorkell the Tall

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Thorkill-Hake[edit]

Is this the same person as Thorkill-Hake referenced in Moby Dick? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.3.222.7 (talk) 07:06, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

hávi = the High?[edit]

Wouldn't a better translation be "the Tall"? One might get the impression he a bit too fond of berserking on 'shrooms ;) Havard 22:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moved. Havard 10:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Auto writes - 'The Tall' - but how tall? 1.9m? 2.0m? more?? Is there a reasonably reliable average height for his contemporaries? Auto asks, really. 2101Z 20 January 2016. 86.147.122.6 (talk) 21:00, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Anglo Saxon Detective Mystery.

I have to check sources before posting, but I understand that Thorkell's wife was accused of murdering his child of a previous wife by consorting with a witch- i.e. by poison. The Bishop of ?Worcester or maybe Winchester, gained a confession after interogating the unfortunate witch and Thorkell's wife broke down when confronted on the ground over which the child's corpse was hidden.Thorkell had given an oath that she had been innocent and as a result had to leave England.Streona 18:57, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that he had to leave. The Scandinavian legal code, and maybe the Anglo-Saxon too, equated one's level of honour with one's level of trustworthiness. If you were challenged to mortal combat (holmgang) and turned it down, you did not only loose your honour, but also your credibility in a court of law. If Thorkell's wife admitted to the murder, Thorkell would have lost all his honour and be publicly disgraced.--Berig 19:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have found a source for the poison trial mentioned by Streona above. It is the Ramsey Chronicle. It was written about by Frank Barlow in “The English Church 1000 – 1066”, London and New York, 1979. I found it in an article from the Thirteenth International Saga Conference, August, 2006. The article was by Annette Kruhøffer and named "Thorkell the Tall – a key figure in the story of King Cnut". It can be found at the following link: [1]. Ingwaz (talk) 08:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 09:32, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

About revision 1159534794 -- how to remedy?[edit]

Hello @Dudley Miles, I noticed that you reverted my edit. No worries, you are far more experienced than me, as I only have around 200 edits on Wikipedia. I am confused, however, about your edit summary. Are you saying the source I found says nothing about the character's basis in history? In which case, the quote I used in the reference says, "The character comes from Thorkell the Tall, a Jomsviking lord who raised Canute at his court. They actually fought on opposite sides when the young prince invaded England with his father, Sweyn Forkbeard. They later joined forces." Is that insufficient? What would be sufficient to prove notability? Thorkell is a major antagonist in Vinland Saga's first story arc, and then a side character. I am interested in following WP:BRD to come to this conclusion. Zorblin (talk) 02:50, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My point was that the article is about Thorkell as a historical character. His appearance in a manga story is relevant to that story (or say to an article about the portrayal of Vikings in Manga), but it gives us no reliable information about the real person. Dudley Miles (talk) 10:19, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is it not relevant to talk about a notable reimagining of this person that is -- for the most part-- faithful? The page for Thorfinn Karlsefni has an "In popular culture section". Same with the page for Leif Erikson.

Including fictional depictions helps us know this historical person's legacy in literature. Modern literature --including manga, which is an increasingly popular medium-- often reimagines historical characters. You can see inclusions in the pages for Qin Shi Huang and others surrounding Kingdom (manga), which are much more fancrufty and unsourced. (I will probably remove/cut down and find sources for those eventually).

Why do you think this is irrelevant as part of this warrior's legacy? Zorblin (talk) 16:16, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are countless depictions of historical characters in novels, films, computer games etc. People add a random selection to articles, which often stay on because no one bothers to delete them. Some are discussed in reliable secondary sources. See for example Cultural depictions of Henry II of England. A random mention which does not give a citation of a discussion in an independent source does not give reliable information about Thorkell's legacy. If you can find RSs discussing the portrayal of Vikings in manga, you could write an article about it and add a link to it as a 'See also' to the Thorkell article. Dudley Miles (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dudley Miles (talk • contribs) 17:17, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I do think that you are right about the source being not notable enough for inclusion. However, isn't there a middle ground between not notable and notable enough for its own wiki article? I think it is fine to have mentions of modern depictions on the same page if they are sourced reliably. Zorblin (talk) 01:20, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed with @Zorblin. If a piece of information has a reliable source and it's relevant to the topic it's fine to include. Notable people with good/featured articles have mentions of media appearances. Thorkell doesn't show up in thousands of random pieces of media either, so it's not like it'd dilute the article. toobigtokale (talk) 07:56, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Dudley Miles make sure to delete every in popular culture section you see on other pages, and get into edit wars with people who try to revert it. you have a lot of work coming up toobigtokale (talk) 18:31, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You have a good point. There are so many people adding irrelevant edits about popular culture that it would be a full time job to get into edit wars to clean up the articles. Dudley Miles (talk) 18:54, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Time to get started toobigtokale (talk) 19:22, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]