Talk:The Fabulous Moolah

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Good articleThe Fabulous Moolah has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
July 9, 2009Good article nomineeListed

Changes i made[edit]

I changed the years in her carrer, since they didnt add up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HeatGuyRed (talk •I [ Speial:Contributions/HeatGuyRed|contribs]]) 22:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC).BetacommandBot 09:33, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mary Lillian of just Lillian?[edit]

I haven't had a chance to read her book but I've seen her name as both Mary Lillian and just Lillian. I was just wondering which one it was because she has a daughter named Mary. (MgTurtle 23:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)).[reply]

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 04:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Birth date[edit]

Could someone please change the date of birth to September 15th 1923. This is clearly stated under reference 2 in the gallery of her 80th birthday celebration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.206.137.123 (talk) 19:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Death[edit]

WWE.com have reported that Moolah has died. Steveweiser 15:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

:( RIP Moolah. She paved the way for many female wrestlers today. FaithLehaneTheVampireSlayer 17:38, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WWE.com is reporting that Lilian Ellison, 84, aka The Fabulous Moolah, passed away yesterday. Her last appearance for the company was in a backstage skit with Coach, Vince McMahon and Mae Young at SummerSlam '07. No updates on cause —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.202.145.2 (talk) 18:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not a forum. Davnel03 19:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That isn't a forum post jackass. TheJudge310 22:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
a) It was noted above.
b) It was noted in the article.
c) No Personal Attacks. Davnel03 12:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
a) Don't come off as cocky and people won't get offended. There's also a policy that states Don't be a dick
b) Make it clear to whom you are speaking.
c) Posting links to policy without saying who you are speaking to and a brief description of what they did wrong is quite irritating. Angrymansr 04:03, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Davnel, he was trying to help, though he should have checked the article, since it was already listed. Judge, no personal attacks. Gavyn Sykes 22:48, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Redirection?[edit]

I think we should move this article to her real name and redirect this name to her real name. The rest of you agree? Govvy 17:34, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not straight after her death when most edits are made. Maybe in a few months time. Davnel03 18:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, Rip —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.254.125 (talk) 03:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, how about now? Govvy (talk) 14:20, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure. She used the name Fabulous Moolah since the 1950s. I believe she is best known by that name, so the article is probably best kept where it is. Nikki311 05:11, 21 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. She is definitely best known as Moolah. - Geoffg (talk) 05:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I just like to be proper, but this wiki is a democracy so I guess no rename! :/ Govvy (talk) 06:59, 21 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There needs to be a redirect from "Mary Ellison." Not many non-fans trying to find out about this woman are going to know to put in her middle name. Kdammers (talk) 03:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Born[edit]

When was she actually born? This article states that she was born on July 22nd 1923. However on fabulous moolah.com (in the gallery under birthday photos), it shows her celebrating with wwe superstars in the ring with the date underneath, September 15th. I would just like to know. Thanks (PS. RIP Moolah). Lee 18:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

July 22, 1923 is correct. Due to WWE programming schedules, they can't always celebrate events on their actual anniversary dates. --Naha|(talk) 19:29, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Obit[edit]

The New York Times obit, from which some information such as cause of death can be taken, is at "Mary Lillian Ellison, 84, the Fabulous Moolah, Is Dead" by RICHARD GOLDSTEIN Published: November 6, 2007

Also, since I can't get in as an IP, could someone please remove the tribute paragraph at the end? Tributes are strictly forbidden, as is posting the whole or the bulk of a press release. See WP:NOT. --69.22.254.111 18:18, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removed. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 21:21, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Death[edit]

www.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/sports/06moolah.html states that she died after shoulder replacement surgery and that she may of died from a heart attack or a blood clot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.142.11.223 (talk) 18:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We done been ripped off![edit]

This story appears to have yoinked some text from the Wikipedia article without attribution. One sample passage ("Following her divorce from Long, she dated country singer Hank Williams for a year") was just added on 3 November 2007 13:59; the Salem-News.com story is dated 5 November 2007 06:44. Discuss. Emurphy42 11:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It happens. --Naha|(talk) 14:53, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mother & Father[edit]

It states in this article that her parents' surname is Ellisor. Isn't this a spelling error as Moolah's real surname is Ellison? Lee 21:26, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

For some reason this information has been deleted, but her birth name was actually Mary Lillian Ellisor, with an "r." She might have legally changed it to "Ellison," but "Ellisor" is what she was born with. Her parents were Henry Ellisor (1882-1949) and Mary Suzanne Atkinson Ellisor(1887-1932). She had four brothers: Edwin, Chives, Murdock, and Bill. The "12 brothers" was kayfabe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stembark (talk • contribs) 03:54, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Please provide a reliable source for this change. Nikki♥311 16:03, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
1930 census entry: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SPCL-YBW
Father Henry Ellisor's gravestone: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=ellisor&GSfn=henry&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=43501005&df=all&
Mother Mary Suzanne Ellisor's gravestone: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=ellisor&GSfn=mary&GSmn=+&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=43&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=43501046&df=all&
Obit of William Ellisor (her youngest brother), from The State, Oct 31, 1999:
COLUMBIA - Services for William "Bill" Duncan Ellisor, 80, will be held at 4 p.m. Monday at Spears Creek Baptist Church, with burial in the church cemetery. Visitation will be 6-8 tonight at Dunbar Funeral Home, Devine Street Chapel, which is in charge. Memorials may be made to Columbia Heart Center.Mr. Ellisor died Friday, October 29, 1999. Born in Blaney, he was a son of the late Henry Lee and Mary Suzanne Atkinson Ellisor. He was a retired warehouse supervisor with Dupont Industries. Surviving are his sons, Billy H. Ellisor of Green Mountain, N.C., Charles Henry (Chuck) Ellisor of Columbus, Ohio, Arthur Louis Ellisor; brother, Chives "Chip" Ellisor; sister, Lillian Ellisor, all of Columbia; eight grandchildren; eight great-grandchildren.
Obit of Chives 'Chip' Ellisor from The State, Aug 21, 2007 (here name shown as 'Ellison'):
COLUMBIA -- A funeral service for Chives Lee "Chip" Ellisor will be held 4 o'clock Thursday afternoon, August 23, 2007, at Shives Funeral Home Chapel with burial in Spears Creek Baptist Church Cemetery. The Revs. Paul Stephens and Otis Lee will officiate. The family will receive friends from 6 until 8 p.m. Wednesday at the funeral home. Memorials may be made to Spears Creek Baptist Church, 220 Spears Creek Church Road, Elgin, SC 29045. Mr. Ellisor died August 20, 2007. Born in Tookiedoo, he was a son of the late Henry Lee Ellisor and Mary Suzanne Atkinson. Chip formerly attended Blaney High School and was a longtime member of Spears Creek Baptist Church. He had retired from the Pepsi-Cola Bottling Co. with 30 years of service. Mr. Ellisor, an avid outdoorsman, was known for his "Famous Catfish Stew." He enjoyed penny poker and strumming his banjo. Survivors include his sister, Lillian Ellison, Columbia; grandchildren, Theresa, Sandra, Vicki, Linda; daughter-in-law, Gloria Ellisor, Lexington; numerous nieces and nephews. He was preceded in death by his late wife, Marie; son, Harold Ellisor; brothers, Bill, Ed and Murdock Ellisor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stembark (talk • contribs) 02:58, 30 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ellisor is an anglicized version of Eleazar and indicates Jewish heritage. Ellison, on the other hand, sounds like a typical Scandinavian patronym. Due to widespread antisemitism in the US, many public performers found it useful to hide their roots. -- 2003:E5:172E:CAAB:917A:6507:26D5:1397 (talk) 08:00, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

JWPA title[edit]

Is anyone familiar with the JWPA title listed in her C & A section? I realize it is mentioned on her website, as cited, but that site doesn't say what the acronym stands for either. I don't find it on www.wrestling-titles.com or Solie's Title Histories. Is it something old and obscure? - Geoffg (talk) 08:16, 17 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure. I would imagine, though, that it probably is a title from Japan if that helps. Nikki311 18:49, 17 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My best guess is that it is from the All Japan Women's Pro-Wrestling Association, predecessor to the All Japan Women's Pro-Wrestling promotion. If that's the case, she would have held it in the late-50s to mid-60s, which makes sense. I guess I'm just wondering what happens if I challenge that "fact". Is a mention on her website enough of a citation? If a title run isn't listed in Wrestling Title Histories, what is the next best authority? - Geoffg (talk) 15:29, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fabulous Moolah was billed as Moolah was billed "IWWA" champion during her tour of Japan Women's Pro-Wrestling Association (the predecessor to the more popular All Japan Women's Promotion) and lost the title to Chiyo Obata in Nov 1976. Chrissbergstrom (talk) 09:23, 21 July 2017 (PT)

Note[edit]

Just want to let you know that at Unforgiven 2006, at Trish Stratus' last match, Jim Ross states that as far as WWE is concerned, at that time both Trish and Moolah were considered 6-time Women's Champions. previously she was considered by WWE as a four-time champion. Was this just a slip up or is there other evidence confirming WWE's recognition of two more title reigns? 122.107.191.102 (talk) 00:01, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, it must have been a slip. On WWE.com's Women's Championship title history page it shows her as only a four time champion. Nikki311 00:23, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

She has held the title six times, however 2 reigns are not recognised by WWE. Lee 19 January 2008, 17:32 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.188.116.52 (talk)

NERVOUS BREAKDOWN?!?![edit]

I don't think its very polite to put that she almost had a nervous breakdown in the personal life section, i also don't think its right for the poor woman to tell the world the age she had when she first gave birth. Oh, is someone going to correct all the spelling mistakes in the personal life section? Kalajan (talk) 21:35, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

photo[edit]

I know that getting photos are "difficult" but can't someone get a photo of when she was young and sexy? I HAVE LOTS OF PHOTOS.IM HER DAUGHTER...MARYAUSTIN1300@YAHOO.COM — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maryaustin (talk • contribs) 04:30, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Controversial legacy[edit]

I hate to tell you guys this, but somebody with the handle "Tarantulacandy" on YouTube deleted the Controversial legacy section in order to win an argument: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--vkhYnE8Ls&feature=related

Move list[edit]

Did Moolah really use to do Flying headscissors and a missle dropkick? I know an article says that she did, but it might of just been speaking stereotypically, if that makes sense? Surely someone knows, like the sort of moves she used to do in her prime? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.65.217 (talk) 23:55, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Coelacanth1938 (talk) 19:19, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

From the article it very clearly describes her doing an ordinary dropkick and a headscissors takedown, which is performed in the ring, not a diving headscissors performed from the turnbuckle. The article in no way mentions her jumping from the turnbuckle. This is why I have edited her move list.

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Fabulous Moolah/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I'll be reviewing this article. At first glance, it appears to be a brilliant article and I'm looking forward to reviewing it! Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 16:23, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

One thing to think about immediately: Enhance the article with a picture, poster, or photo of Moolah at the height of her career --- whether posed or a "live action" shot of her in the ring. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 22:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I found a pretty good shot from the 1980s, so I've added that. Nikki♥311 04:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Early life: I've reworked slightly for flow and to consolidate citations.

  • Do we know her the names of her parents? They should be entered if available.
    • No. In her autobiography, she only refers to them as "Ma" and "Pa". Nikki♥311 04:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • This section could be enhanced greatly with some direct quotes from Moolah's autobiography --- especially regarding her first trip to the wrestling matches with her father. How did they impress her? Was she fascinated or nonplussed? Did she then wrestle with her brothers or other children?
    • Clarified plus quote. Nikki♥311 00:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are there any anecodotes about her life in the South that she recalls in her memoirs? Enter as "blockquotes".
    • Not that would add anything, IMO. The only stories are about hunting lizards with one of her brothers or cooking biscuits for her dad...not the sort of thing that is encyclopedic. Nikki♥311 00:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Early career (1940s–1950s): Some minor reworking for flow.

  • Please provide a definition for "valet" for those unfamiliar with the professional wrestling terms.
    • I linked the term to its definition at List of professional wrestling terms#V. I clarified the definition in the sentence: "accompanying him to the ring while providing eye candy for the male audiences and assisting Rogers against his opponents". Nikki♥311 04:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did Ellison debut as Slave Girl Moolah at the match against June Byers in the Boston Arena in 1949? Please clarify.
    • She didn't get the name Slave Girl Moolah until later, so I'm assuming she wrestled the first match under her own name. In any event, I think I clarified that the name was given to her later. Nikki♥311 00:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ellison seems to be involved in or pushed into sexual relationships with others. Where are her husband and daughter at this time? Need to establish this.
    • She divorced Walter within a few months of having Mary, so I've made that clear. Mary stayed with a friend. Nikki♥311 00:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 13:07, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that some of the changes you made in the early life section included referring to her as Mary instead of Ellison. According to WP:SURNAME, the surname should be used. I haven't changed it back because you might be aware of some policy that I am not aware of... Nikki♥311 00:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

World Champion (1956–1970s)

  • In the Early career section we have "to sleep with". I'm wondering if this phrase is strictly an American euphemism? Could we be more explicit and definitive for non-Americans that may not understand the phrase? For example, "to enter sexual relationships with" or something similar? I've returned "Ellison" to the Early life section and scratched "Mary".
    • I hadn't thought about that before, but it makes sense that a non-American might be confused by that. I changed it to your wording. Nikki♥311 02:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the first sentence, do you mean "vacant World Women's Championship title"? Should title follow "Championship"? Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 17:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Title and championship are synonyms, so it is redundant to say both. Nikki♥311 02:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't understand the second sentence. Why did Wolfe's control of the promotion (of what? the NWA?) prevent her from being recognized? Clarify this sentence a bit for those not familiar with pro wrestling.
  • "Subsequently, Byers came out of retirement to challenge Moolah to a match for the title, which Moolah retained." Can you "beef" this up a bit with some juicy details or stretch it out a bit: "It was a hard fought match, but in the end, Moolah was victorious and retained the title." Keep it encyclopedic but provide some more details if possible. Stretch it out.
  • "Moolah successfully defended the belt against the top female wrestlers in the world." Name a few of the most notable: "Moolah successfully defended the belt against ABC, 123, XYZ and other top female wrestlers in the world."
  • Any anecdotes about Elvis or Lewis? Did she date them? Did either dedicate a song to her or mention her in the lyrics?
    • Nothing like that, they were just friends. Lewis did visit her house at least once, so I added that. Nikki♥311 01:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do you mean she physically "flipped football player Roosevelt Grier" over her shoulder or something? Or does "flip" mean something else in wrestling? I don't understand. Could you clarify.
    • Yep, physically. Clarified. Nikki♥311 01:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Great work here. I very much enjoy reading and reviewing this article!Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 17:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    • I'm glad. Not everyone likes to review the wrestling articles, so I try my best to make them interesting and accessible to non-fans. Nikki♥311 02:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rock 'n' Wrestling Connection (1980s)

  • Great photo!
  • Is "villainous" POVish? Rework it slightly: "Manager Lou Albano, who long had a reputation of being a villain..." with a citation, of course.

Otherwise fine here. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 21:26, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    • He was a bad guy/villain character. I changed to your wording, and the citations already cover that he was a villain. Nikki♥311 02:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-retirement

  • Is Mae Young the Daisy Mae of the Early life section?
    • Nope. Mae Young is a wrestler friend, and Daisy Mae is totally different person. Nikki♥311 02:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise fine here. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 21:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Training and promoting

Other media

  • Fine here but if you can add some material about the reviews for her book it would be a nice addition. For example: "The New York Times found her autobiography to be a penetrating behind the scenes look at professional wrestling, and the book continues to be a bestseller about the sport" Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 00:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • The usual book reviewers don't usually review wrestling books, so I couldn't find very much that I would consider credible. I did find some criticism of her book in a SLAM Wrestling article, so I've added that. Nikki♥311 21:15, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life

  • I did some minor reworking for flow and longer paragraphs.
  • Is it Buddy Lee or Buddy Rogers? The lead mentions a Rogers.
    • Two different people. She managed Rogers early in her career. She married Lee awhile later. They either looked or acted similarly (I'm not too clear on it), which is why they were both given the nickname "Nature Boy". It's confusing, so I just removed the nickname from Buddy Lee's name to help distinguish them. He was not a prominent wrestler, so I think removing it should be okay. Nikki♥311 04:15, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

  • Tell us who Mildred Burke and Nature Boy are in relation to Ellison in the first paragraph of the lead. For example. "...wrestler and trainer Mildred Burke and professional wrestler Nature Boy ...". This will allow the reader to continue to read without resorting to the link.

Final review

I'm ready to pass this article to GA but await any input, questions, feedback from you before I do so. Good article! I enjoyed reading and reviewing it. I suggest expanding some of the sections, and sending it to peer review with an eye to FA! Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 21:53, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I left a message on your talk page awhile ago, but I guess I'll leave one here, too. Thanks for the review...I really appreciate it. What sections, in particular, do you suggest I expand before trying at FA? Nikki♥311 03:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


This GA review was conducted by an account subsequently discovered to be operated by a user that made use of multiple accounts. Importantly, there is nothing that supports a concern passing their own GAs or passing 'sub-GA' articles authored by others occurred. In the interest of transparency and rigor, discussion agreed reviews against the underlying articles be checked.

The article received a clearly in-depth review, and was nominated by a highly-experienced GA reviewer. I've just a few comments:

  • A statement by the nominator in the original review was: "Not everyone likes to review the wrestling articles, so I try my best to make them interesting and accessible to non-fans." As someone who isn't really a fan of wrestling, I'd like to point out you succeeded.
  • The "Moolah Simply Fabulous" reference 404s; it looks like the site has changed the format of their URLs. The current link should be http://www.mikemooneyham.com/?p=128. It seems the author Mike Mooneyham has published books on wrestling (such as used here), so I'd think it qualifies as a reliable source.
  • There's a couple've sentences in the part about training and promoting mentioning 'Mad Maxine', sourced to rspwfaq.com, a blog. A better source would need to be found if that material is to remain. I will point out, however, that neither the material, its cited reference, nor indeed any mention of the word 'maxine', appear in the version that was reviewed (listed in articlehistory template); they appear to have been introduced subsequently. The remainder seems well-sourced and referenced.

Overview: I've checked the article against the criteria. I agree with the review's pass of the article and with its comments. The review and GA status should stand. –Whitehorse1 03:29, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fabulous Moolah[edit]

I am a 63 year old wrestling fan. I have been a fan my whole life. As I remember, the correct way to refer to the Fabulous Moolah is "Fabulous Moolah." The word "the" should not be used when referring to her wrestling name. This is not a trivial point. Moefromlatin (talk) 20:19, 8 April 2010 (UTC) moefromlatin[reply]

Image Suggestion[edit]

I think someone like Moolah could have a much better image for this page. The one on the page, looks... for lack of a better term... Low Grade. 50.81.18.248 (talk) 17:15, 14 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Sexual and financial exploitation[edit]

Hi, I noticed that most of the training and promotion section is about allegations of sexual and financial exploitation of trainees. I wondered if this should not have it's own section considering the seriousness of the allegations? 82.9.239.174 (talk) 18:22, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Youngest of 13 children[edit]

Historical records consistently support that she was the youngest child and only girl of five children, not 13. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stembark (talk • contribs) 18:18, 12 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Stembark Which "historical record"? Can you link it here? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 08:25, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the information is listed above in the section on her birth name. The census records all show five total children for Henry and Suzanne Ellisor. The obits of all her brothers list the five of them and no others. Her biographical book was really the biography of the character The Fabulous Moolah, not Lillian Ellison. She never mentions the names of her parents, and only mentions two of her brothers by name, Chip and Bill. Stembark (talk) 22:05, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Marriage to Walter Carroll[edit]

Her biography "First Goddess of the Squared Circle" is a source for some of the material, but is more a biography of the character "The Fabulous Moolah" and not of the person who portrayed her, Lillian Ellison, so much of the info is based on 50 years of kayfabe.

The part about her marriage to Lonzie Walter Carroll and the birth of her daughter doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't know when, or if, she graduated high school, but if she did on time, she probably graduated in 1940, as at the time, South Carolina had seven years of elementary school and four years of high school.

I found her daughter's birth announcement in a December 1941 issue of "The State" (Columbia, South Carolina) newspaper. So, she would have been 18 when her daughter was born. So I suspect she was probably 17 instead of 14 when she got married to Lonzie Walter Carroll. At least that's closer. From historical records, it appears he was probably born in 1919.

I'm not going to bother trying to change the article, as that info does come from a 'verifiable' (albeit dubious) source, but I thought it was worth pointing out.Stembark (talk) 22:23, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I removed some of the info concerning her teen marriage as the conflict with published records. 1940 census shows 16-year-old Lillian Ellison [sic] single, living with her father and brother Murdock.
From "The State" (January 2, 1941):
Mr. and Mrs. L. Walter Carroll of 1617 Two Notch Road announce the birth of a daughter, Mary Etta Louise, on December 27 at the Columbia Hospital. Mrs. Carroll is the former Lillian Ellisor of Columbia.
That's Moolah's daughter Mary. Stembark (talk) 16:20, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Owning Ladies International Wrestling Association[edit]

I just noticed that in the article it doesn't mention anything about Moolah owning Ladies International Wrestling Association (LIWA). She was the promoter when the company started in 1990 and shut down in 2000. It was based in North Carolina. She worked and wrestled for them between her WWF stints. I believe the reason the article does not mention LIWA is because there is no article for this promotion. Anyone have more information about the promotion?Kingzwest (talk) 15:31, 29 June 2020 (UTC)(talk)[reply]

Found the promotion Ladies Professional Wrestling Association based in Laughlin, Nevada. She never owned it. Tor Berg owned it from 1989 to 1992 and 1998 to 2000. I must be confused then. Kingzwest (talk) 05:25, 12 December 2023 (UTC)(talk)[reply]

In German, they say that Moolah was the youngest of 13, while this (English) says 5.[edit]

I was randomly clicking around. Do you know which one is correct?? 199.197.71.32 (talk) 14:39, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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