Talk:Tell Hadar

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Wrong name: Tel with one l[edit]

Tell is Arabic, tel is Hebrew. Tel Hadar is Hebrew, so it requires tel, not tell.

There isn't a single properly accessible English-language source, so the confusion is hard to prove, but not impossible. One source is in Hebrew, one (L.E. Stager) has a dead URL link but allows a tiny & cropped snippet view via ISBN, and the Oxford Enc. also only allows snippet view: still, both English books clearly use Tel , not Tell (see next section for how to access to 4 different encycl. volumes, all using Tel).

There is unfortunately a redirect for Tel Hadar. It must be removed before the article can be moved. Any volunteers?

What is actually the Arabic name? Should be indicated! Arminden (talk) 23:21, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Large amount of sources use Tell: [1] Its a place in international Syrian territory, whey would a different name than Arabic be used? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 04:18, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Minimal rational thinking required: if Tel Hadar is the Hebrew name, and Shaykh Hadr/Hidr the Arabic one, why exactly should Arabic transliteration rules apply to the HEBREW name, as opposed to the Arabic one?

To help you make a rational pro-Arabic argument: why not move to Shaykh Hadr/Hidr? Answer: because it's not widely known under that name, those who discovered, excavated and publicised it used Tel Hadar (Tel with one l).

You offered me even the (superfluous, as in: not needed) numerical argument: your search on G. Books brings up 58 cases of Tell Hadar, who knows why even that many (mistranslation from Hebrew?). The search for Tel Hadar brings up hits without end, I got bored at 120.

There is no rational argument to be had here. Just a technical obstacle for a necessary move. Arminden (talk) 22:17, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Hadar" is arabic, not hebrew. Those who excavated the site where from the invading occupying country, and they use the hebrew "Tel", That doesn't mean its real name is suddenly hebrew. The area is internationally regarded as Syrian territory. "Tell" is also widely used in english and this is English Wikipedia. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 23:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources: mess[edit]

As mentioned above: for an English Wiki article, having only one fully accessible source, and that one is in Hebrew - not great.

The Oxford Encyclopedia of Archaeology in the Near East has 5 volumes. Vol. 2 has the item "Hadar, Tel", vols. 3, 4, 5 show in snippet view mentions of Tel Hadar. Only vol. 1 doesn't, and precisely that one is "linked" by ISBN in the ref! Nice. 1 out of 5 is useless, and only that one is referenced - now that takes a good sense of humour. No time now to fix it. Arminden (talk) 23:21, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category[edit]

Removed "Category: Archaeological sites on the Golan Heights". Lakeshore, on eastern side of lake, true, but no way in hell it's Golan Heights. Not sure even about int'l status, int'l treaties gave British Palestine a several metres band of lakeshore all around the Sea of Galilee, Israel inherited it. So no. Arminden (talk) 23:56, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The site is in international Syrian territory and part of the occupied Golan Heights. Not in Israel. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 04:19, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fix ideas take us nowhere. The point was: Heights or bottom of tectonic rift valley? (Heights comes from high, this site is 200 m under the sea level, very close to the water.) Not about occupied or not occupied. You have at your disposal other categories - check out what's out there, archaeological sites in southwestern Syria or alike.

As to the border on the NE shore of the lake: there is none, just an armistice line. Different concept. The previously agreed border was 10 m east of the shore, which is vague, as the waterline regularly moves for up to a couple dozen metres, depending on rainfall and water consumption. But again, that's not my main concern: the "Heights" is.Arminden (talk) 22:19, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is part of the geopolitical area of occupied GH, maybe not the geographical. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 23:28, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]