Talk:Svara

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Found in the Samaveda?[edit]

Under "In the Vedas" the article says "The word is found in the Vedic literature, particularly the Samaveda, where it means accent and tone, or a musical note, depending on the context." This needs a citation, as far as I am aware this isn't the case. A claim like this needs a reference to where in the Samaveda the usage of this term occurs. Brak (talk) 03:20, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Roman Numerals[edit]

Under "In the Upaniṣads" the artical says "The word also appears in the Upanishads. For example, it appears in Jaiminiya Upanishad Brahmana section 111.33...". The citation is an error, as there is no 111.33 - but there is however III.33, or 3.33. Brak (talk) 03:21, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What about the ratios??[edit]

The tables in this article seem to imply that the Indian notes are equivalent to contemporary Western equal-tempered notes. I highly doubt that this is the case, because even the West didn't use equal temperament until quite recently.Indian_classical_music#Notation_system says that "just intonation tuning" is used, but that doesn't tell the reader much either, because there are many different types of just intonation tuning. Are there any experts who can say what the ratios of the tuning system's notes actually are, ideally with references to old Indian texts which describe the tuning ratios? (or guidelines, in case there were no exact ratios) Esn (talk) 10:23, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Which table? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 13:05, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

All of the tables. They compare the Indian notes to contemporary Western pitches, but do not mention what ratios are meant. See here for an introduction to the topic. Esn (talk) 07:38, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Esn: There are no "all of the tables" with ratios in this article. Are you confusing this article with Shruti (music) article which does have tables? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 23:15, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of Sapta Svara into Svara (Implemented)[edit]

This content mentioned in the article Sapta Svara is an expansion of Svara. These two should be merged to avoid the overlap. - The9Man ^(Talk) 06:46, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hii. You are right, but this topic has a great importance in Classical music as it is the base of it. And after all this is a different topic which should not be merged with the page/article of Svara. ShubhanTelang (talk) 07:37, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The9Man: Hii. You are partially right, but this topic has a great importance in Classical music as it is the base of it. And after all this is a different topic than Svara, which should not be merged with the page/article of Svara. ShubhanTelang (talk) 09:55, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support merge. Subset of main page content, repeats most/all key content. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 15:59, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support merge. Readers are best served with this information all in one place.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:11, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support merge. Pichpich (talk) 18:39, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Sapta Svara is a topic that should be kept separate as it is a very important topic in Svaras. But if it is to be merged with the page of svara, then I think it should be merged rather than deleting the whole page. ShubhanTelang (talk) 13:06, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And I feel the merging part of the page Sapta Svara to Svara should be done as quickly as possible, as readers are best served with a particular information on one page itself. So to avoid this confusion of information, lets merge this page to svara quickly. Lets not keep this work pending. Please opine and do the necessary changes and actions. Or else let me do it. Is it OK if I do the merging of this page into svara? I am not sure if I could do it. Please reply on this. ShubhanTelang (talk) 16:35, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure. If I understand right, svara is like note (music), while Sapta Svara is like scale (music). It took me flipping back and forth reading between linked articles to understand that. Would we consider merging note and scale?Jacqke (talk) 12:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If they are not merged, intros might need changing to make the relationship clear up front.Jacqke (talk) 13:32, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Svara is note (music) while Sapta Svara is the seven svaras (notes) together (these seven svaras are Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Dha and Ni). The seven svaras of Indian classical music are collectively termed as Sapta Svaras. It is believed that Sapta svaras (or the seven svaras) form an octave (Saptak). It can partially be termed as a scale. Svara and Sapta svara are thus different from each other. Sapta svara are made from Svara. Then should Svara and Sapta svara still be merged ? ShubhanTelang (talk) 08:58, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose merge. The Sapta Svara, or Seven Tones, together form the diatonic scale which is the basis of all Indian music ragas. User Jacqke's characterisation of the two as musical note and scale is apt. A full treatment of classical Indian music needs the two concepts to be kept distinct, as the corresponding ideas are in classical Western music. And as in the West, the ideas also have some overlaps and many interdependencies. Although a modern Western musical scale is not necessarily built upon the diatonic scale, most still are, and very little music (even microtonal music) is written or heard that does not use the diatonic heptatonic (seven-note) scale as its basis. Traditional Indian music is even more firmly wedded to the diatonic basis of the Sapta Svara. I think it would be a mistake to try to treat both the tones and the gamut from which all ragas are drawn in just one article. I'd be happier to see the Svara page extended to include a full discussion of the classical Śruti, which are all the different "flavours" the tones can take in different ragas. But even there, I think that Śruti are best discussed in a separate article, roughly corresponding to the Western musical accidental. yoyo (talk) 13:19, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

PS: The current Śruti page, even tho' it has some problems, is incomparably better written and referenced than the current Svara page. Indeed, it might form a useful basis for revising the latter, as the Śruti concept refines that of Svara. yoyo (talk) 13:32, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]