Talk:Surrender Dorothy

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Latter Day Saint movement Low‑importance

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Mormon Church[edit]

"It is one of the best known examples of "giraffiti", and became so well known among the Mormon community that their newsletters often mentioned it as a specific example demonstrating misunderstanding of their religion."

It's impossible for us to prove that this is "one of the best known", see Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms. I'm not sure that this actually is all that well known among the Mormon community either. The first time I heard about it was in an article written by Orson Scott Card, Are Mormons Funny?. As for "their newsletters often mentioned it...", only one newsletter was cited, which I am unfamiliar with. Perhaps we could say something like "this prompted reports in Mormon News..." or something to that effect. --Lethargy 17:06, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The source of the quote was Wikipedia's own article on graffiti - which, of course, has been edited out. As for the sources, there was the newsletter and the Washington Post article on the subject; I'd say that's authoritative, but I don't have any objection to phrasing it differently if it's absolutely necessary. - Scooter 03:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Date of first instance[edit]

Regarding this claim:

The famous graffiti in the D.C. metropolitan area first appeared on the outer loop of the I-495, the Capital Beltway, on a railroad bridge near the Washington, D.C temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Kensington, Maryland, beginning in late 1973.

68.100.224.11 wrote:

The 1973 is incorrect because the Temple wasn't dedicated until 1974 and the Temple existed for years before the graffiti first appeared

I have no idea if this true; just moving the comment to the talk page where it belongs. Electrolite (talk) 03:11, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I personally saw it in the early 80s. It has been a legend around the DC area and gets repainted every couple of years in 6 foot high letters.

It is the primary reason for having a Surrender Dorothy article and should NEVER be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.204.227.79 (talk) 07:52, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perpetrator[edit]

I'm looking for information about who the perpetrator was and what his or her motivations were. I'm not the only one -- the Washington Post's Answer Man has also asked for contact: [1] Whoever the perpetrator is, really has nothing to fear, because the statute of limitations has, I believe, expired. Also, I don't think most Mormons see this as offensive -- merely a misunderstanding of Mormonism or a confounding of imagery. I am Mormon and lived in Washington DC for many of the years that this was visible. Every Mormon I knew at the time laughed and rolled their eyes at the graffito. I would absolutely love to document more information about this!! Kent Larsen (talk) 12:13, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lead image[edit]

@Evrik: How is a North Carolina ski resort mural a better lead image than the still from the film that it's depicting? If it's intended as a neutral example of the phrase's use in US society, the article doesn't have anything to say about that, and even with an updated caption pointing out that it isn't the famous Washington DC graffito, it's still a little confusing to illustrate a famous film shot and graffito with a picture of some different graffiti. --Lord Belbury (talk) 07:26, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The image I added is free. --evrik ^(talk) 01:59, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The two Washington DC photos later in the article are also free. But MOS:LEADIMAGE doesn't say anything about choosing a free image over a more representative one, it seems more appropriate to open with the Wizard of Oz still, if the article is about the special effect and the graffiti that it inspired. --Lord Belbury (talk) 08:58, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Open this up for discussion to a wider group. --evrik ^(talk) 04:16, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As the editor who added the photo, the WP:ONUS is on you to achieve consensus for it being there. In absence of a reason for including it, I'll remove it. --Lord Belbury (talk) 07:49, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]