Talk:Sulaymaniyah/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Greater Kurdistan
"Greater Kurdistan" - from what I understand, this doesn't exist, although the Kurds, naturally, would like it to. I imagine the wording here needs to be fixed up a bit. (anonymous)
- It exists in flesh and blood. People - many of them the same people who pooh-pooh "Kurdistan" - regularly refer to "Palestine" and other places that don't officially exist. However, I'll add some wording referring to the fact that Kurdistan is a demographic region, not an official territorial designation. --Jpbrenna 23:44, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
Foundation of Slemani
Slemani was not founded in 1786 by Ibrahim Pasha Baban. The city was founded in the classical age and was then called Sharazul/Sharazur. Ibrahim Pasha renamed the city Sulaimani and moved the capital of the Baban principality to this city from Qala Chwalan.
^^Agree^^. The article also does not state anything about the origin of the name. 207.38.194.49 07:32, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
- There should be a mention in the history section that Silémaní was founded on the village of Melkendí/Melkengí (Malkandi/Malkangi). Source:C. J. Edmonds 1957, p. 53. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.211.101.239 (talk) 11:21, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Historical population
A duplicate article about the town in Ottoman times listed the 1906 population as 12,000 people. I've changed Süleymanli to a redirect. Valentinian (talk) 16:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Move
Google hits:
- 191.000 Sulaymaniyah.
- 10.900 Suleymania.
So previous version is more popular. If there are other reasons for move it should be discussed in Talk page, and formal RfM procedure held. Encyclopaedia Editing Dude 19:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Population
The article states: "Since being founded as the capital of a powerful Kurdish principality it has grown to about 800,000 people."
This gives an understanding that because Silémaní was the capital of Baban its population has grown to 800,000 people. However the citys great population boom is due to the destruction of practically all the kurdish villages in iraq during the 1980s, specially during the Anfal-campaigns of 1987-1988. This forced villagers to seek refuge and new homes either in the "mujama'ats" or in the cities, and thats primarily why the city'a population has grown in souch extreme figures and in an extreme pace. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.211.101.95 (talk) 16:22, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Newroz vs Nowruz
I'm not denying it's the same/similar or whatever festival. But this is a page talking about the form celebrated in Kurdistan (however you define that) by Kurdish people. So referring to it as Nowruz when all Kurds call it Newroz is totally beside the point. Akerbeltz (talk) 22:50, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
- Can't believe the amount of controversy Newroz is attracting... this is what seems to be the base on wikipedia right now: most regional variants of Nowruz seem to redirect to Nowruz except for the Kazakh variant Nauryz. There is also Newroz as celebrated by Kurds which I've just discovered when I checked the talk history of Newroz. Very bizarrly, the top of the page says This article was nominated for deletion on 18/8/2006. The result of the discussion was Keep yet the page is now a redirect? My questions are as follows: a) how did that end up as a redirect and b) whether or not it is ok to refer to it as the "Kurdish New Year". As far as I understand ماني, his/her issue is that historically this festival is derived from the Persian festival. My view on that is that just because something started as a Persian festival does not mean other people cannot adopt and vary the tradition, making it "their own" in the process. The tradition of Santa Clause was decidedly German, as was the Christmas tree but try telling anyone in the US that it's not "American" but "German"... I'm all for making reference to the historic origins within the Persian tradition but calling something the Kurds celebrate very ostensibly as "their Kurdish New Year" as the Persian New Year because that's where it started feels a little bit like someone has a POV to push. Akerbeltz (talk) 16:02, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
- It would seem from Talk:Newroz#Conclusion.3F that the consensus was to redirect Newroz to Nowruz but to use the Newroz as celebrated by Kurds to cover for the specifics of what the Kurds do. Still doesn't mean it cannot be called the Kurdish NY. Akerbeltz (talk) 16:12, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
- I added the best source possible which proves Noruz is Persian and nothing else. Please do not ommit sources and sourced material from wikipedia. This is against the rules. If some Muslims somewhere celebrate Chrismass it is not enough a reason to call it a "Muslim feast". The Kurds and others were a paer of Persia for thousands of years and that's why the ones who are today out of Iranian territory still celebrate the Persian festivals. They made no changes in it and it is still celebrated as pure Persian as it was.--ماني a.k.a. [[User:Mani1]] (talk) 16:03, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
- I'm not doubting any of your sources that say that Noruz is Persian in origin, ok? I'm simply questioning your insistence of referring to it as the Persian New Year irrespective of what cultural sphere you're in. The Muslim analogy is flawed, the Nowruz/Newroz issue is not a question of jumping religions but of cultural adaptations of the same festival within the same religious sphere. Akerbeltz (talk) 16:51, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
- I added the best source possible which proves Noruz is Persian and nothing else. Please do not ommit sources and sourced material from wikipedia. This is against the rules. If some Muslims somewhere celebrate Chrismass it is not enough a reason to call it a "Muslim feast". The Kurds and others were a paer of Persia for thousands of years and that's why the ones who are today out of Iranian territory still celebrate the Persian festivals. They made no changes in it and it is still celebrated as pure Persian as it was.--ماني a.k.a. [[User:Mani1]] (talk) 16:03, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
- It would seem from Talk:Newroz#Conclusion.3F that the consensus was to redirect Newroz to Nowruz but to use the Newroz as celebrated by Kurds to cover for the specifics of what the Kurds do. Still doesn't mean it cannot be called the Kurdish NY. Akerbeltz (talk) 16:12, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Food for thought? If you do a search on Google scholar, you get 51 hits for "newroz "Kurdish New Year" and 2 hits for "Newroz Persian New Year". I've checked all my language books on Kurdish, they all also call it the Kurdish NY. Given that Wikipedia goes by common English usage, not historical roots, I would say that calling it the Kurdish NY in Kurdish related topics is more than appropriate. Akerbeltz (talk) 17:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
Template:Location map Sulaymaniyah
FYI, there is now a Template:Location map Iraq Sulaymaniyah to locate places and buildings. -- Zoeperkoe (talk) 16:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Persia in history as we all know was a big country but also had many different races and many different tribes and languages and religion every tribe had their different traditions and Kurds was one of those who always lived in that area as they call Kurdistan nowadays they were always in struggle to get their own country separated from the big Persia because of differences between their race and their religion nor the Arabs(Iraq now) or the Iranians (Iran ) and the Armenians(Turkey ) liked the christens and the Jews and the Kurds because of the majority the of Kurds, the Kurds and the Jews and the christens were united and helped Greek to fight Persia so they were good friends with Alexander and helped Alexander to defeat the Persian king at that time, Alexander respected the Kurds as they used to call them The Kardos (means the people of the mountains )he was admired by their bravery and also called them the Ghosts of the mountains because he as he mentioned it in his book they used to disappear in the mountains means the Kurds as still you can see the christen and Jews neighborhoods in Kurdistan so Iran and Persia is two different things as arabs and Kurds and Newroz means a New day in Kurdish as the Kurdish black smith guy(Kawa)gets both of his sons killed by the king of Persia just because they are Kurds he starts a revolution on the Persian king and kills the king with his hammer and says to the people if they won the war with Persian king they will set fire on top of all the mountains as a signal of their win so the people can celebrate thats where the fire came from its a very common story in Kurdistan and believe is true because as we still see Kurds have many enemies old enemies who always try to mess up their history and to make them bad guys to the world but you will never know the truth until you meet this people iam from America and i know many Iraqis Iranians Turks and i have studied them very well the Kurds were the best people i have ever known in my whole life i respect them with all my heart and respect their bravery for standing still and i fully support them to get their country back they belong to that place more than any one and deserve to have their country as they gave a huge sacrifices by history until this day
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Lost Citation + questionable sources
By Mattwardman (talk) 09:50, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Citation 3, referenced multiple times in this article, has vanished.
Citation 4, use of gas by Churchill in 1925, states the opposite of the text of this page. Citation 4 is from a far left website by "Steven"; hardly an acceptable Wiki source.
I have not contributed to this article, but perhaps a regular could update.
It needs tidying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattwardman (talk • contribs) 09:50, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
- The website for reference #3 has been under construction for a while now. However it used to be a reliable source for information and as far as I can tell the official site of the city. Archive.org has a few old copies still.
- I removed to text about the gas. We have an entire article about it at Alleged British use of gas in Mesopotamia in 1920 and I doubt anyone not specifically looking for the subject is going to look here. Thanks for your input! ~ Zirguezi 11:29, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Reported Burning of 400 women in 2007 in Sulaimaniyah
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/13/gender.iraq
Not sure how this should be handled, and I cant even figure out how to add citations, but i think this is worthy of mention108.5.166.219 (talk) 18:08, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
- I think this is a wider issue concerning Iraq rather than just this city. I think Human rights in post-invasion Iraq would be a better place to add it ~ Zirguezi 09:28, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Population of Sulaymaniyah
According to official statistics of the Directorate of Nationality and Civil Status in Sulaymaniyah indicates that the population of the city of Sulaymaniyah has exceeded one million and a half.
http://www.kurdiu.org/en/hawal/?pageid=105514
http://www.aknews.com/en/aknews/3/315336/
So now we have a official statmant about the population. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JapanerRusse (talk • contribs) 22:14, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
ZheerKURD edit
Parts of this edit have been undone, but the rest of it still needs to be reverted. 110.164.229.107 (talk) 16:59, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
- Can you elaborate? What needs to be undone? ~ Zirguezi 23:24, 24 November 2015 (UTC)