Talk:Struwwelpeter

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Roald Dahl influence[edit]

Does anyone have any proof for the impact of Struwwelpeter on Roald Dahl? The claim is made, but not substantiated. I'd like to know if it is true! Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.227.230.190 (talk) 20:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Well, "Augustus who would not eat his soup" is thought by some (including myself) to be the inspiration for Augustus Gloop. 174.109.110.191 (talk) 21:06, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

St Nikolas or Agrippa?[edit]

In the version I've seen, Agrippa dips the miscreants into the ink. However, this is an English translation. Is St Nikolas in the original German? Mon Vier 09:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Mon Vier. The entire text is available at the German Wikisource: [1]. It is indeed Nikolas there. Joshua R. Davis 15:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you - in that case, I agree - best to keep as close to the original as possible. Mon Vier 17:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In the German text he's called "Nikolas" and he's similar to, but definitely different from Saint Nikolas (i. e. no bishop's insignia). According to the German Wikipedia he might have been modeled after Tsar Nikolas. 87.139.81.19 11:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. When I originally wrote "St. Nikolas", I was making an inference. Now I have edited it down to "Nikolas". Joshua R. Davis 14:09, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The German Wikipedia does actually identify "Nikolas" with Sankt Nikolaus, both in their Struwwelpeter and in Weihnachtsmann (i.e., Santa Claus). In the first article, they write: „Nikolas“ (eig. hl. Nikolaus), that is: "Nikolas" (actually Saint Nicholas)". In the second article, they write: Bereits die Darstellung des Nikolaus im weltweit verbreiteten Struwwelpeter, der 1844 entstand, ist dem heutigen Bild des Weihnachtsmannes recht ähnlich, that is: "Already the representation of Nicholas in the Struwwelpeter, which was written in 1844 and distributed world-wide, is quite similar to the present-day image of Santa Claus." Concerning the Tsar Nicholas I theory, the claim in the German Wikipedia page is merely that "Nicholas' image with beard mocks, besides, Tsar Nicholas I". An interesting theory, which, as far as I can discern, is not based on anything, and is seriously weakened by the fact that Nicholas I did not sport a beard and did not wear a robe and fez. (For images of the Tsar, see commons:Category:Nicholas I of Russia.) --Lambiam 22:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The German Wikipedia also lacks references for these assertions that Nikolas is Sankt Nikolaus. It would be nice to get a definitive answer. Mgnbar (talk) 10:46, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The English translation by Mark Twain (Slovenly Peter) uses "Saint Nicholas". The text can be found in (Twain, Mark, 1835–1910. "Slovenly Peter (Struwwelpeter); or, Happy Tales and Funny Pictures, Freely Translated by Mark Twain". Reprinted in: The Lion and the Unicorn – Volume 20, Number 2, December 1996, pp. 155–165); if you have Project MUSE access, see here p. 157. An identification is also made in (Martina Eberspächer 2002. Der Weihnachtsmann: Zur Entstehung einer Bildtradition in Aufklärung und Romantik, p. 74 ff., in German); see here or here (search for "Struwwelpeter"). The identification is not presented as a theory, but as something apparently obvious. This last source also mentions the Tsar interpretation – but as political satire based on the well-known verse. --Lambiam 20:53, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Let's put it in. Mgnbar (talk) 00:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

`Nikolas´ appearing in an 1845 book, that was ment as christmas-gift, strongly leads to only one conclusion: it must be archbishop Nikolaos! Because there wasn´t any Santa Claus to be waited for back then (the opening verses mention the `Christkind´, which was the predecessor of the `Weihnachtsmann´). Another thing: the story itself (boys mocking a negro/`Mohr´) confirms that as well. There is a helper `Knecht Ruprecht´ (a black or dirty man, who strafes the naughty kids), which is actually a Negro in some german traditions (today mostly in the Netherlands).

Being a german I have to say: many german wiki-articles just suck, do not refer to them easily.--139.30.128.61 (talk) 18:02, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No matter how well-reasoned and correct your argument is, we cannot add it to Wikipedia without verifiable sources. So, if you want to help improve this article, then please find some.

I'm sorry to hear that the German-related articles here are poor. This encyclopedia is written entirely by volunteers, and some topics are covered better than others. You are welcome to contribute your own time to improving this encyclopedia. Also, you may have better luck at the German Wikipedia. Mgnbar (talk) 20:32, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The reason for the Tsar identification is that the Tsar at the time happend to be called Nikolaus and that the boys were "blackened", as apparently some sentences in newspapers and books also were during the Tsar's reign.--131.159.76.209 (talk) 16:23, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Title of the work, vs. the work itself[edit]

User:Wilhelm Strasse has twice now changed the opening sentence to say that Der Struwwelpeter is the title of the work, rather than the work itself. He is confusing the name of a thing with the thing. "Der Struwwelpeter" (a phrase consisting of two German words) is the title of the work, while Der Struwwelpeter (a book by Heinrich Hoffmann) is the work itself. We should not include this the-name-of verbiage, unless we are specifically talking about the name, rather than the thing named. For example, Angela Merkel is about the person Angela Merkel, not the name "Angela Merkel". I believe that there is a Manual of Style item about this somewhere, but I can't find it.

User:Wilhelm Strasse supports his viewpoint by saying that the German Wikipedia says that Struwwelpeter is the title. I believe that the German version should also be changed. Mgnbar (talk) 13:38, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Translations of Title[edit]

Aside from Shock-Headed Peter, I've also heard this work's title translated as Slovenly Peter…I'd never heard Shaggy Peter before reading this article, though “shaggy” is indeed a synonym to “slovenly“ with respect to hair. OzzyMuffin238 (talk) 04:56, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Mark Twain, a contemporary, translated Hoffmann's work as Slovenly Peter, according to a listing for the book on Amazon. OzzyMuffin238 (talk) 05:06, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You have a good point. Over the years, the translation given in this article has been changed many times. It would be nice to have a reliable source for the translation(s). Mgnbar (talk) 14:41, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]