Talk:Straight-acting

This article stinks

I came here from homomasculinity, hoping to find a better treatment of this subject. What a disappointment! This article needs a lot of work.

First, I deleted wholesale this statement:

As the term "straight acting" is used to refer to gay men who do not fit the stereotype that gay men are effeminate or otherwise non-masculine, it is seen to perpetuate that stereotype.

1. Beland changed Ec5618's blatantly POV "it perpetuates that stereotype" with the weasel words "it is seen to perpetuate that stereotype". (Seen by whom?)

2. How does the contradiction of a stereotype perpetuate the stereotype? Wouldn't it do the opposite?

I also added a Criticisms section and moved some of the criticisms into it. However, the principal criticism of "straight acting" does NOT appear in this article, and it should. It is easy to find, as it principally comes from loud gay activists who made no secret of their contempt for men who "pass for straight". For instance: [1] Someone here who has that animus toward "straight acting" can do a better job of writing it up than I can. Loundry 13:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Recent Edits

The recent additions to the page need to be sourced. The entire article has POV problems and I hope we can source it before it gets a nuetrality tag. Thanks. -- ParAmmon (cheers thanks a lot!) 15:43, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

More POV edits

Recent edits have made this page worse, not better. I made the following revisions:

1. This was POV and was removed:

A "straight acting" gay man may be invisible even to his own "gaydar". "Coming out", especially to oneself can be an especially difficult, emotionally turbulent event for the true "straight actor". Unseen or, unrecognised by the gay and straight community alike, "straight actors" are far less likely to "come out" at an early age, if ever.

2. The following was highly POV and was rewritten:

The gay term "straight acting" is easily confusable as meaning "acting" as if on stage, i.e. pretending to be or look straight. This is a misuse of the term. In fact, a "straight acting" person like any other "Out" gay man is simply being his true self, a non-effeminate male Homosexual. True "straight actors" are simply those who are at the other extreme end of the homosexual spectrum of gender identity from gay men who feel feminine yet are not transsexual. "Straight actors" feel straight yet have same sex attractions just as any other Homosexual.

(I think I might have mixed up a few lines in there.)

While I sympathize with what was written, I rewrote it as "some gay men think" and "other gay men think". I dislike having to use the "some think" weasel words, but I think that the contrast of the two opinions is a NPOV reflection of reality. Is there a way to rewrite it without the "some think" phraseology?

3. Removed this, as it relied on the No True Scotsman fallacy:

Many true "straight acting" gay men resist the use of this term due to it's ambiguity.

Loundry 13:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge proposal

See discussion here.ParAmmon (cheers thanks a lot!) 15:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge completed

The homomasculinity article was largely OR and unsourced, and had POV issues. I abbreviated it and sourced it and placed it in the realted terminology section. I also deleted some POV text here that criticized 'masculinity.' It didn't seem to belong in this article.--ParAmmon (cheers thanks a lot!) 20:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Common questions

{{Expand|date=March 2007}} Wow, this article has grown a lot and greatly improved from its off-the-top-of-my-head first draft. Some perennial questions on this topic include 1.) what percentage of homosexuals are "straight acting" and thus do or do not conform to the stereotype, and 2.) to what degree the mannerisms described are inherent, adopted, or inculturated. Is anyone aware of any reliable sources that would supply any answers or - dare I ask - statistics? -- Beland 18:53, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The problem with the first question, I think, is that the majority of gay men don't identify with the traditional gay stereotype, nor do they self-identify as "straight acrting." They're just men and I don't think truly accurate statistics are available just POV guesses. The second definitely needs to be looked into, at least one of the references talks about adopted gay mannerisms.--ParAmmon (cheers thanks a lot!) 19:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

"Misc." section.

This section seems a little odd. It's a bit out of place and doesn't really have any relation to the community or the article really. I didn't want to just delete it, so I figured I'd suggest it and see if anyone agreed. JamisonK 03:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Related Links

The link to the page Frot seems really out of place —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.138.81 (talk) 23:26, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I have removed the reference to Frot. There was no reason for it to have been included. Jthechemist (talk) 06:01, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

The term "Straight" is also used meaning "Straight-acting"

Men & Women In the Adult Entertainment Industry, Entertainment Industry, Medical Industry, Hospitality Industry, Health Clubs/Gyms in the Exercise and Fitness Industry are all a part of our LGBT Community/Lesbian Gay Bisexual(Straight-Lesbian-Gay) Community! In the LGBT Community/Lesbian Gay Bisexual Community, online and around the world the term "straight" is used meaning "straight-acting" not meaning attraction to the opposite sex but meaning attraction to opposite sex-same sex & same sex, also online and around the world the term "straight" is used meaning "straight-acting" for example meaning a male who's behavior is more normal for a man such as watching sports, cars, sex, etc. Can you please add this to the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.219.188.196 (talk • contribs) July 27, 2015‎

If you can provide reliable sources to that effect. --‖ Ebyabe ^talk - Health and Welfare ‖ 23:54, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

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Lede needs updating with a more recent source (current one appears outdated).

> Although the label is used by and reserved almost exclusively for gay and bisexual men, it may also be used to describe a lesbian or bisexual woman exhibiting a feminine appearance and mannerisms.

That hasn't been my experience in the gay community at all. While this topic is indeed more often discussed regarding men, it is absolutely common (the opposite of "almost exclusive") to use such terms when discussing women.

The source is from 2006. Perhaps in 2006 this statements was 100% true. But it's certainly not 15 years later, and at best misleads readers by painting the gay community with a broad monocultural brush.

A newer source discussing such terms would presumably allow for the lede to reflect the 2021 (instead of the 2006) reality.

Cheers.