Talk:St Agnes, Cornwall

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The History section is inadequate and needs to be expanded.----Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 19:38, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You're funny! Of course it does - so do the empty sections. After having organised things into sections, I'm going top down and am at Geography moving into Geology. I'm guessing I still have 4-6 hours of work to go.--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:43, 19 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, my estimate was way off! I'm finding so much on English Heritage's site - I'll be here for awhile as I comb through how much of it is notable. Very interesting info, though!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:08, 20 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad you find this interesting; WikiProject Cornwall needs more editors willing to upgrade articles, particularly for the larger parishes. A few of the good editors who used to be at work have done lots of good editing but have "retired". It is easy to see what is wrong with articles but serious improvement takes much more effort. Part of the problem with the history is that the histories which cover every parish in Cornwall are so old: the one edited by Polsue is the most recent and the Victoria County History has only one volume for Cornwall. John Maclean's history of the Deanery of Trigg Minor is very detailed but only covers 20 parishes and was published over 130 years ago. The Genuki website has pages for every parish in Cornwall: there is quite a lot of useful information there.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 19:55, 20 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's good to know - I haven't been using Genuki (except to see if there are links to reliable sites) - because I thought as a genealogy site it wouldn't be considered a reliable site. Yep, I'm having the same problem, most of the books are from quite a bit ago.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:23, 20 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Genuki is useful for general history but you need to be aware that some of the text it includes may have been written in the 19th century so a version of it may not fit very well beside what is being written now. It is good for accounts from local directories (19th century) and for places of worship and cemeteries. There is no general editing, only what various individuals have contributed. A few places in Cornwall have good local histories like Penzance and Constantine. Most of the historians from Cornwall have written about the county in general rather than their own district.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 09:36, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:18, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To do list[edit]

  • History
    • English Heritage - continue to comb through the Post-Medieval items - such as WWII bases, other industries, notable buildings to include
    • Rather than get into detail about each of the mines, look through books and other sources about St Agnes mining to gain a broader understanding of the mining activities
These two may be good to start with: (a) Jenkin, Kenneth Hamilton : Mines and Miners of Cornwall originally published by the Truro Bookshop, 1961 onwards and reprinted by various organisations: Pt. II. St. Agnes, Perranporth ISBN 0-904662-05-5 (b) Todd, A. C. & Laws, Peter (1972) The Industrial Archaeology of Cornwall. Newton Abbot: David & Charles (I have the Todd book but not the first one)
On my way to finding info about St Agnes economy, industries or occupations - I also found: http://www.stagnesmmi.org.uk/world_heritage.html
  • Any other information about prehistoric periods that ties in the information from English Heritage, such as why there was so much settlement here, the reasons for defensive enclosures - and then when the enclosures were no longer needed, trade, etc.
  • More about Roman influence and impact to Celtic traditions
All of those things seemed like such a good idea - until I realized how very long the article was getting. I've boiled down the information from the Bronze age, etc. into one section called Antiquities - and put a good deal of the information in notes. If there's something major that's missed here, I say let's put it in. If not, it might be good to call this section done.--CaroleHenson (talk) 03:33, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is already one of the best sections on this topic in the articles on Cornish parishes. If is ever needs expanding it can be left to a local historian who is keen to do it.
Ok, that's good to hear! Sounds good to me.--CaroleHenson (talk) 09:37, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Religion
    • any more information on Church of St Agnes that is notable
    • information about other churches
There is some information about Methodism in St Agnes in two of my books: The Wesleys in Cornwall and Shaw, Thomas History of Cornish Methodism
Ok, yep - still need to work on this section. (CH)
The basic facts should be in Genuki and Commons may have some pictures of the chapels (they usually have an official name of --- Methodist Church but most of the time they are described as chapels, meaning they are not Anglican or Roman Catholic parish churches); given some time I can summarise this and add it.
Yep, I added some information from GENUKI. There are pictures of some of the chapels in the smaller towns.--CaroleHenson (talk) 09:37, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Education
    • any other key historical info about education
    • current educational opportunities
I don't know why, but I'm having a really hard time finding information about schools. Is there another name for "school" for children over the age of 11? (CH)
Schools for ages 5-11 are called "primary schools", the official name may include "county primary school" since they were administered by the County Council. Those for ages 11-18 may be "grammar schools", "secondary schools" or "comprehensive schools". For over 18s there are "technical colleges", "further education colleges" and universities (the only university education in Cornwall is at Tremough and the associated colleges).
Hmmmm. I don't know why I wouldn't have found more on "St Agnes Cornwall school OR schools" search. I'm stymied. (it's really late and I cannot think of a better word.--CaroleHenson (talk) 09:37, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Culture and/or other sections
    • from links or other sources
St Agnes - Cornwall mag  Done
St Agnes - Cornwall online  Done
St Agnes - Parish council  Done
This should probably be a bit more well-rounded (CH)  Done
  • Economy
    • Round out this section  Done
  • Demographics
    • pdf file / source for missing Statistics citations  Done
  • Government
    • Add information from parish council and any other relevant sites  Done - I think, but let me know if I missed something crucial
  • Transport
    • Add more info about modes of transport
List of bus routes in Cornwall; Newquay airport; Newquay railway station  Done

Feel free to add whatever you think I've missed.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:06, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think anything needs to be added here.

--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 08:47, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I added some responses to your additions. Thanks for that! It seems like it's getting closer to done. Really, it sounds pretty much like it's just the schools and the churches/chapels. Yeah! I'm off to bed, I'm getting punchy. Talk to you later.--CaroleHenson (talk) 09:37, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Churches and chapels: it is wrong to describe these as belonging to "three religions". They are all denominations within the Christian religion and the differences between them are less than what they have in common. Members of all these churches would accept that members of the others are also Christians. It is a pity that WP's biographical infobox for people uses the label "Religion" followed by the name of a Christian denomination; the way Commons categorises places of worship also works the same way. I have added some information to Nigel Tangye but I'll leave St Agnes alone while you are working on it. I can look at the Todd & Laws book some time to see if it has useful information but I don't think editing accounts of mining is going to be easy. You are certainly making good progress. Can you get better results by separate searches for "mithian school", &c.?--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 18:52, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Yep, it would be common in the states to consider the Methodist church to be a different religion than the Baptists, for instance, but I do understand that they're both Christian faiths. Please to feel free to rewrite the sentence in a way that is clearer and more accurate.  Done finished the religion section the best that I can - tried a rephrasing of the lead sentence(s) - we'd say denomination, too - so hopefully that is a bit more accurate. Again, tweak and correct me though as needed.
Great about info for Nigel Tangye - I ran across him in the Trevithick Society article.
Ok, regarding mining.
Yep, I will do a more detailed search, such as by Mithian for schools and see if I have better luck. I put the "in use" tag up while I work on the Religion section - and depending upon whether I'm finding info or not, I may start on schools right after that.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:09, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. It is too late in the evening to do any more so I hope to come back tomorrow. I have some more to do with Nigel Tangye as I did not get all the way through the listing of his publications. Like many biographical articles it is rather scrappy.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 19:52, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, sounds good! I found the coolest site for school info: http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/performance/geo/la908_all.html - it has a map to zoom in on the area and show what schools are there. What a find!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:21, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I think I've done what I can for the moment. I usually do a much better job of copyediting my own work after I've been away from it for a day or two. I've been concerned about how long it's gotten, but I copied the main body of the article (not the notes or citation info) and that's 21,000 characters. So that's less than half of the total 57,000 characters in the total article. I thought that the references probably made up a big chunk of the total character count. (No one can say we're shy of citations now!).--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:52, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Additional info?[edit]

The CISI St Agnes report has additional information about the geography of St Agnes, it's beginnings as a "churchtown" and neighboring communities - some in the beginning of the report, more on page 12 and on.

I don't know that we need it, but it's good information. Thought I'd post it here since the article is already getting so long.--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:06, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Verify St Agnes Parish settlements[edit]

Creating this to cross-check whether they are all in St Agnes and whether they're a village or settlement.

Settlement Village or hamlet St Agnes Council (W=Ward) Explore Britain - V, H, Other Other
Banns O
Barkla Shop O
Blackwater V W, V O
Blowinghouse O
Cross Coombe O
Goonvrea H O In St Agnes (SAPC)
Higher Bal O
Mawla Explore Britain says it's in Redruth. An old map (and checking that placement against a new map) shows that a stream just below Mawla is the dividing line for the St Agnes Parish.
Menagissey O
Mithian V W, V O
Mount Hawke V W, V O
Porthtowan W, - O
Skinner's Bottom O
St Agnes V W, O Includes hamlets such as Goonbell, Goonvrea, Goonown (SAPC)
Stencoose O
Towan Cross O
Trevellas O
Wheal Kitty O
Wheal Rose Explore Britain says it's in Redruth. There are people from Wheal Rose included in the census numbers for Porthtowan - I wonder if some of Wheal Rose is in St Agnes Parish and some area is in Red Ruth.

There's also a Manor Parsley, Mingoose, Mithian Downs, New Downs, Peterville, Silverwell, Two Burrows


--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:26, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This may be useful: [Cornwall; Explore Britain. Though this site provides a lot of useful information it does not help in distinguishing villages and hamlets.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 06:45, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wonderful, yes I'll check it out. Thanks.--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:48, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All but 2 of the places were shown by Explore Britain to be in St Agnes Parish: Mawla and Redruth. In both cases there wasn't a Parish mentioned in the article, but I've seen both included in St Agnes Parish, too. So I'm guessing that there's land in both Parishes. For the moment, I added the Redruth parish to both articles with a citation - and St Agnes is an uncited parish. I'll check that out as I work (kind of slowly) on the parish settlements. I've finished Blackwater and will likely start on another settlement a bit later today.--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:31, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The 1961 map shows Mawla in St Agnes parish a few yards from a stream which is the boundary with Redruth parish; there are a few buildings on the the opposite side of the stream so they could be in Mawla as well. I can't see Wheal Rose on the one-inch maps 189 or 190 (1961); if I look on OS Get-a-map it should be there. Redruth is a Cornish name which means "red ford" but "red" = ford, and "ruth" = red; it is a civil parish and the nearest town to St Agnes. You are making good progress.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 15:11, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Continued: I can now see Wheal Rose on OS map 190: it is mainly in St Agnes parish but it is very close to the point where St Agnes, Redruth and Chacewater parishes meet so it may extend into the other two. Is the Explore Britain citn for the Mawla entry under Wheal Rose a mistake?--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 15:22, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thanks! Yes, that's my first laugh at myself for today - that was a mistake.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:31, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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